Major League Soccer

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Here's a link to an article at ESPN.com
http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/15...s-2020?cc=5901

MLS officials announced that the league would expand by 4 teams [[to 24) by 2020. Later in the article it mentioned that Detroit is one of a handful of cities where someone has proposed locating a franchise [[possibly a reference to the proposal for the jail site).

I would love to have a club in Detroit. To make money on building a soccer stadium, it would be a long-haul venture. But I think Detroit could support a team. I would put a stadium on Woodward just north of the new arena, and it could double as a college soccer field.

I don't support the proposal to put it on the jail site, mainly because I don't think that investor group has the resources to pull it off.

What would we call the team? How about the Detroit Arse-Kickers?

PS: Soccer players have great legs. Could watch 'em all day. And they haven't reverted to the almost-long-pants of the NBA, which is one of the reasons I don't follow basketball much anymore. Boy, in the 80's, nobody had legs like Adrian Dantley.

[KJ5]

What about bringing back the old NASL name - Detroit Express ?

[gnome]

If you want professional soccer to succeed I think you fill up a small venue first. There are any number of high schools with seating for a few thousand folks. Flll that consistently, then move onto bigger plans.

to suggest an arena for 20,000 that will sit unused most of the time is kind of a waste of space.

i understand soccer fans are passionate, and they voice the option that they can't grow if they are subjected to playing in non-professional venues. True, Pele would never join a team who plays their home games at Detroit Country Day, but that is the problem with professional soccer in the US...even if you built a state-of-tha-art stadium for 30,000 fans you would still be short by 70,000.

international soccer venues Rock and surge and strain with thousands and thousands of screaming and chanting and singing fanatics. Here in the US you get a couple of thousand polite folks who clap politely while sipping lattes from recyclable cups.

You will spend millions and millions on the fanciest place imagined and still suck as much as playing at a high school field. Maybe more because your absolute best effort was so lacking.

[buzzman0077]

Gnome, you've never been to a Detroit City Futbol Club game have you? This is only a Semi-pro team and they are bringing 1200 out to Cass Tech for regular season games and over 2000 for the finals in only their second season.
I have to believe that with a true professional team and a soccer specific stadium this city could regularly fill a 20K seat stadium.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Gnome, I think MLS would probably require a commitment for a soccer stadium to award a franchise. With Ford Field being indoors, there really isn't a good option for them to play. Sure, they could play at Wayne State or UM temporarily, but I think MLS would not permit that in the long run.

[gnome]

Could you imagine Calvin Johnson leaving Detroit to play at Berlin's brand new 20,000 seat football stadium? Doesn't that sound laughable? Now, imagine those wacky Berliners are building that new stadium right downtown using public money.

Filling the CassTech stands with 2,000 folks is great for Detroit soccer, but that number is matched weekly by fans of freshman football games. Should we build a stadium for 20,000 for freshman football?

now, a public arena for 20,000 that would be used by all manner of sporting events, concerts and conventions does sound a lot like Cobo Arena ... which couldn't pay for itself, was neither fish nor fowl as a sport facility or concert venue. Are we smarter now to build an acoustically relivant concert hall that can double as a sporting venue?

not if you think building a 20,000 person stadium is a good idea?

Loving soccer isn't enough of a reason.

[noise]

What would we call the team? How about the Detroit Arse-Kickers?

Yikes, I hope not! Could not support a club with that name.

PS: Soccer players have great legs. Could watch 'em all day. And they haven't reverted to the almost-long-pants of the NBA, which is one of the reasons I don't follow basketball much anymore. Boy, in the 80's, nobody had legs like Adrian Dantley.

Wait, you choose which sports you watch based on the ability to see the players' legs?

[gnome]

Paging Manrooter! Post for MMMAAAANRRROOOOTERRRR!

[rb336]

PS: Soccer players have great legs. Could watch 'em all day. And they haven't reverted to the almost-long-pants of the NBA

I hate the "long shorts" that are in style and have been for a long time - they aren't shorts, their culottes. Didn't care much for the "hot pants" the NBA used to wear either.

[Zug]

I would love an MLS team for Detroit. I've tried getting into MLS, but it's tough to root for another city's team. Detroit [[or U of M) teams are the only ones I can feel passionate about. I often have other teams I generally support [[i.e. Toronto Maple Leafs...because Toronto is the best hockey city in the world & deserve a good team!) but I don't follow them passionately.

Anyway...I don't think I'd want a stadium in downtown. I'd much rather see it in another part of the city...like the Tiger Stadium site, the fairgrounds, or in some of the many abandoned areas just outside of downtown. I'd probably even prefer them being in Pontiac over downtown. I get that people in the area love sports...but when so many stadiums are right next to one another, it's very hard to argue against the idea that people ONLY see Detroit as their playground. It's ironic because I support Illitch's arena, and believe it can have a positive impact. However, it's a lot tougher for me to see an MLS soccer stadium with limited games and no guarantee for success as equally significant in it's impact. I'd much rather see a new area get some attention. Put it in a place where a modest stadium could actually have some sort of positive impact.

If MLS actually grants Detroit a team, it will be up to the owners to build a stadium. So what I think doesn't matter.

[Spartan]

Filling the CassTech stands with 2,000 folks is great for Detroit soccer, but that number is matched weekly by fans of freshman football games. Should we build a stadium for 20,000 for freshman football?

Your comparison is ridiculous. A more accurate one would be to say we can draw 2,000 to freshman football, so we could build a 20K stadium for a college team. We're not talking about building a huge stadium to accommodate the current level team, we're talking about moving up 3 tiers. Plus, you can't look at soccer in a vacuum. Detroiters support their sports teams at the highest levels, so there is a proven backing in the area for endeavors like this, both horizontal and vertical.

[AuburnSpeedster]

I kinda think THIS area may not be bad.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...12,167.77,,0,0

It's not actually in downtown to close things off, but it's close enough to be able to use the same parking as the other stadiums. It cold also help create get rid of that dead space that currently is there

[Spartan]

international soccer venues Rock and surge and strain with thousands and thousands of screaming and chanting and singing fanatics. Here in the US you get a couple of thousand polite folks who clap politely while sipping lattes from recyclable cups.

Check out a Portland, Seattle or Kansas City game sometime, if this is your opinion of MLS. Obviously, it's not the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc, but it's not like it is YMCA or Baseball either.

[gnome]

The comparison was intended to be ridiculous, Kapitan Obvious.

[cman710]

Whether to use public funds for a stadium remains an entirely separate question, but the idea of a 20,000 seat stadium for an MLS team is not outrageous.

The average attendance for an MLS team in 2013 [[as of the end of June) was 17,480. Of the 19 MLS teams, 11 have averaged more than 17,000 fans, and 14 have averaged at least 14,000 fans. By team, average attendance varied widely, from a low of 8,998 for Chivas USA [[in the Los Angeles area), to a high of 41,502 for the Sounders [[in Seattle). While it is hard to say how well a Detroit team would draw, a 20,000 seat stadium would not be crazy.

I have attended one MLS game, at Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, MA. The attendance was awful and the stadium huge, making for a really dead feel and a poor experience. A 14,000 fan crowd at a smaller stadium might seem loud and exciting, whereas the same crowd at a larger stadium is inevitably dull. For the team by team statistics, click here.

[emu steve]

How about Cass/Fisher/2nd/Ledyard?

And since the city would hold title to the stadium [[as governments do for real estate tax reasons) how about letting Cass Tech play their FB games there free.

And the Cass FB field can be recycled for something else [[or at least be a practice field).

H.S. FB games could be played there rather than having them at Ford Field [[Aug 31?) or WSU's Adams Field.

Could use same parking as for the arena.

Could help Ilitich unload excess property not needed for the arena.

and probably many more +s.

[stasu1213]

Detroit has many vacant lots and open fields to convert into a soccer stadium temporarily. I am thinking of one location which is Forest Russell Eastern Market area. Once soccer become an American National pastime a permanent stadium could be built.

[emu steve]

Detroit has many vacant lots and open fields to convert into a soccer stadium temporarily. I am thinking of one location which is Forest Russell Eastern Market area. Once soccer become an American National pastime a permanent stadium could be built.

Wow, you are running 180 degrees from the way the conversation has been.

I don't think your proposal would even be considered.

Matter of fact, it sounds like a way to kill soccer for Detroit.

The point is that Detroit should be a candidate for an expansion franchise which I read has a 2020 time line. [[I believe USA Today indicated that the MLS wanted to expand from 20 --> 24 in 2020).

EDIT: Here is the article.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eason/2607239/

In order to get a MLS franchise Detroit would need a 20K stadium, ideally in a downtown location.

In order for this to happen, Detroit would need to be well along with a new arena and then able to see what it can do to help a potential owner/franchisee get a stadium/franchise.

Plans for a new soccer stadium would need to be on the table by say 2016 or 17.

[rb336]

The average attendance for an MLS team in 2013 [[as of the end of June) was 17,480. Of the 19 MLS teams, 11 have averaged more than 17,000 fans, and 14 have averaged at least 14,000 fans. By team, average attendance varied widely, from a low of 8,998 for Chivas USA [[in the Los Angeles area), to a high of 41,502 for the Sounders [[in Seattle). While it is hard to say how well a Detroit team would draw, a 20,000 seat stadium would not be crazy.

If you dump the far outlier, it comes to an average of about 16,750. Basically lower than all but 6 NHL teams [[all but 4 of which were lower than 85% capacity). It is no surprise that Pac Coast/NW teams do the best, and as kids who grew up playing soccer become adults, I fully expect soccer to overtake hockey nationwide [[although I find it dull as all get out, like if you quadrupled the size of a basketball court, allowed only passing and chopped the hoop diameter by 5 inches, creating scores lower than the average hockey game)

[emu steve]

If you dump the far outlier, it comes to an average of about 16,750. Basically lower than all but 6 NHL teams [[all but 4 of which were lower than 85% capacity). It is no surprise that Pac Coast/NW teams do the best, and as kids who grew up playing soccer become adults, I fully expect soccer to overtake hockey nationwide [[although I find it dull as all get out, like if you quadrupled the size of a basketball court, allowed only passing and chopped the hoop diameter by 5 inches, creating scores lower than the average hockey game)

Soccer is a game where one has to look forward into the future and try to predict what will happen with that game.

I'm talking initially 2020 but really 2030 and beyond.

Does Detroit want a soccer team for 2030? If so, try to get a 2020 expansion team.

Detroit needs to decide if it wants to get on the soccer 'bandwagon' or let it pass Detroit by.

The business of saying 'well, we can get a team which wants to move...' is bad business. Might be a bad team. The selling owner might try to 'hold up' a new owner or city and Detroit would get a WORSE deal than by moving in 2020.

[I don't see any real growth in MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL within the U.S. in the next 10, 20 or 30 years. None of them seem to be able to support additional cities. A number of franchises now struggle in these leagues.]

[BasementBeat]

I kinda think THIS area may not be bad.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...12,167.77,,0,0

It's not actually in downtown to close things off, but it's close enough to be able to use the same parking as the other stadiums. It cold also help create get rid of that dead space that currently is there

Yep, the areas on Grand River on either side of Motor City Casino can use some help with filling up- while still being close to Downtown. That's the one casino that is practically lacking in anything in walking distance outside of a corner store, Mitch's and Tv Lounge. Which ain't much when it's in sniffing distance of a multimillion dollar casino.

[swingline]

If you want professional soccer to succeed I think you fill up a small venue first. There are any number of high schools with seating for a few thousand folks. Flll that consistently, then move onto bigger plans.

to suggest an arena for 20,000 that will sit unused most of the time is kind of a waste of space.

i understand soccer fans are passionate, and they voice the option that they can't grow if they are subjected to playing in non-professional venues. True, Pele would never join a team who plays their home games at Detroit Country Day, but that is the problem with professional soccer in the US...even if you built a state-of-tha-art stadium for 30,000 fans you would still be short by 70,000.

international soccer venues Rock and surge and strain with thousands and thousands of screaming and chanting and singing fanatics. Here in the US you get a couple of thousand polite folks who clap politely while sipping lattes from recyclable cups.

You will spend millions and millions on the fanciest place imagined and still suck as much as playing at a high school field. Maybe more because your absolute best effort was so lacking.

What are you trying to say gnome? Are you saying that the best players won't come to the MLS because the stadiums aren't big enough? Well it's obvious that many international venues are bigger than most MLS stadiums and that the fan bases can be more passionate. So what. The MLS is not so self-absorbed to think that it will supplant the Premier League, La Liga and Serie A anytime in the foreseeable future. The best players aren't coming here in their prime. But nobody expects that.

But if the MLS is to progress, it must play most of its games in soccer specific venues of a size where the clubs have the ability to fill them to capacity. [[And by the way, world-class soccer doesn't always just occur in vast venues like Old Trafford and Wembley. Most of the clubs in the three leagues mentioned above play in 30K - 50K stadiums.) The success of MLS is not and will not be measured by whether its games generate the interest and competitive excellence of the El Clasico rivalry of Barcelona and Real Madrid.

A skilled ownership bid for Detroit should be able to satisfy MLS requirements that will certainly include a new stadium. Capacity will only have to be in the 25K range, just like it has been for the last ten or so MLS expansion clubs [[with the exception of Seattle). A competitive team here should be able to generate attendance at such a venue to make the venture profitable [[enough).

[stasu1213]

Wow, you are running 180 degrees from the way the conversation has been.

I don't think your proposal would even be considered.

Matter of fact, it sounds like a way to kill soccer for Detroit.

The point is that Detroit should be a candidate for an expansion franchise which I read has a 2020 time line. [[I believe USA Today indicated that the MLS wanted to expand from 20 --> 24 in 2020).

EDIT: Here is the article.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eason/2607239/

In order to get a MLS franchise Detroit would need a 20K stadium, ideally in a downtown location.

In order for this to happen, Detroit would need to be well along with a new arena and then able to see what it can do to help a potential owner/franchisee get a stadium/franchise.

Plans for a new soccer stadium would need to be on the table by say 2016 or 17.

I am not off the mark. A soccer culture has to be created in this city first. Smaller venues could be played in one of these open fields. Just convert it into a soccer field. Money could be invested to cover the field where soccer could be played all year around. Ford Field could hold the professional tournaments un tilba stadium is built

[Spartan]

I am not off the mark. A soccer culture has to be created in this city first.

You can't "create" something that is already there.

[michimoby]

You can't "create" something that is already there.

You have a homegrown, fourth-tier league soccer culture based on a team that is incredibly egalitarian and community-supported.

Make it corporate, bump up ticket prices, and make it less "trendy", and the game totally changes. That's the concern people have, I think.