Fire & Police Lieutenants and Sergeants face 10% wage cut

**TexasT** · July-31-13, 01:31 PM

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...d-benefit-cuts

7 Action News has learned Detroit Police and Fire Lieutenants and Sergeants will have wage and benefit cuts imposed on them effective August 6, 2013. This affects 400 Police Sergeants, Lieutenants and Investigators and a hundreds of Fire Lieutenants, Sergeants and Captains.

The new terms include a 10% wage cut, cuts in overtime, court time and longevity pay. The 10% pay cut is new for this group of employees.
Heath care coverage is uncertain.

This is the first wage cuts to this group of officers and fire, DPLSA, correct? The lower ranking officers, the DPOA, have had significant cuts already, but if I'm reading this right, this does not affect them?

**TexasT** · July-31-13, 01:33 PM

**Scottathew** · July-31-13, 01:40 PM

I wish they'd publish the average wage and benefit package for these folks. It would help give more context to the cuts.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-31-13, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by 48307

I wish they'd publish the average wage and benefit package for these folks. It would help give more context to the cuts.

Yes, please. Maybe its too much. Maybe its not enough. Who knows. I wonder if they benchmark this against any of PD?

Stepping back, I do hope in fact that this is the dark before the storm. Police Officers do work that deserves good pay. If we can cleanup our fiscal messes, perhaps we can again pay people a better than average wage. But right now, its survival mode for the city and these workers.

**SWMAP** · July-31-13, 02:37 PM

I believe that the average wage of a patrol officer is low. The benefits package was pretty good and that was what made people apply to the DPD.

Also the training was top-drawer. But many people took that expensive training and joined other, suburban police departments for more money and less danger. Thus other departments reaped the benefits of the Detroit Police Academy.

In the meantime, Detroit, under Coleman Young, started recruiting felons to be hired into the DPD - that changed everything. Many people left because shattered to work next to someone they would have once arrested.

The ranks now thinner allowed many of the recruits who once had poor reputations to rise faster in the ranks -indeed, many of those recruits were pushed up the ranks by various mechanisms. So the DPD became less and less a department of high quality and more a department of mediocre quality and, I guess, actually a meat market or a pool from which to troll for extra-marital sex.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-31-13, 02:42 PM

A firefighter starts in the high $20's, I want to say $28-$29k.

**TexasT** · July-31-13, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

A firefighter starts in the high $20's, I want to say $28-$29k.

But these cuts are only the upper ranks, I think.

Also, damn, that's low for the work and risks they take.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-31-13, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by TexasT

But these cuts are only the upper ranks, I think.

Also, damn, that's low for the work and risks they take.

Its also not much more then my schoolmates started with right out of High School 25 years ago. Higher ranks make in the $50's and $60's so at least a $5k cut.

**Ray1936** · July-31-13, 03:15 PM

It's the Inspectors, Commanders, and Deputy Chiefs that need the pay cut. And especially, the Chief of Police. Go back to Cincinnati if you don't like it.

The sergeants and lieutenants earned their promotions the hard way, by studying and passing written exams....which, I can assure you, are tough. Inspectors and up are purely political appointments. Every one.

**cla1945** · July-31-13, 03:58 PM

The lieutenants and sergeants, commissioners, chiefs and appointees have not had a pay cut and I think that ONLY the lieutenants and sergeants are going to be affected by this one. They have come up through the ranks and the tests and exams that they had to take are.very difficult, as Ray1936 said.

What an insult to ALL city employees to be asked to sacrifice the little money they earn while the fat at the top continue to collect these absurdly huge salaries for doing nothing. They [[the fat) will be driving the new police cars while the officers on the street are driving junks.

**TexasT** · July-31-13, 04:07 PM

How are the salaries at the top configured? Are they unionized or is it individual? I wonder if they have a cut coming?

**Meddle** · July-31-13, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

It's the Inspectors, Commanders, and Deputy Chiefs that need the pay cut.

Not to mention the numbers of them. There's just too many.

**Ray1936** · July-31-13, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Not to mention the numbers of them. There's just too many.

Way too many, Meddle, since 1974.

**Meddle** · July-31-13, 05:51 PM

^^ Like I said on another thread a few months back, all of the brass should be handling radio calls at least one shift a week. Aside from helping with the short manpower, it would keep them more in touch with the streets. And I mean ALL, right up to and including the Chief.

**stasu1213** · July-31-13, 06:03 PM

Everyone take cuts while Kevyn Orr gives himself and his colleagues hefty salaries

**KJ5** · July-31-13, 11:09 PM

No wonder the cops are out robbing people...

**Wesley Mouch** · August-01-13, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Everyone take cuts while Kevyn Orr gives himself and his colleagues hefty salaries

Me, I like my surgeons to be well paid. Big Louie will cut you up for minimum wage, but sometimes he makes mistakes.

**Gannon** · August-01-13, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Me, I like my surgeons to be well paid. Big Louie will cut you up for minimum wage, but sometimes he makes mistakes.

You only hear about Big Louie's mistakes because he cannot afford the expensive attorneys and non-disclosure agreements. Even the best-paid surgeons make mistakes. They are human. They merely have the legal team backup to insure you don't hear about theirs.

Your logic is faulty.

Snydely, Orr and his outstate firm are merely the last in a very long line of scammers and schemers who've targeted this city for their profit and gain.

**ct_alum** · August-01-13, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

I believe that the average wage of a patrol officer is low. The benefits package was pretty good and that was what made people apply to the DPD.

Also the training was top-drawer. But many people took that expensive training and joined other, suburban police departments for more money and less danger. Thus other departments reaped the benefits of the Detroit Police Academy.

In the meantime, Detroit, under Coleman Young, started recruiting felons to be hired into the DPD - that changed everything. Many people left because shattered to work next to someone they would have once arrested.

The ranks now thinner allowed many of the recruits who once had poor reputations to rise faster in the ranks -indeed, many of those recruits were pushed up the ranks by various mechanisms. So the DPD became less and less a department of high quality and more a department of mediocre quality and, I guess, actually a meat market or a pool from which to troll for extra-marital sex.

You are correct. DPD began hiring people with criminal records under the guise of "Affirmative Action". The mechanism to push unqualified people up the ranks is called a charter promotion. It is used to promote people who didn't score high enough on the test but who are politically connected or having sex with a supervisor. These people are referred to as someone who is "chartered".

BTW, MSP starts Troopers at about $50k.

**48205to24** · August-01-13, 06:25 AM

[QUOTE=ct_alum;396947]You are correct. DPD began hiring people with criminal records under the guise of "Affirmative Action". The mechanism to push unqualified people up the ranks is called a charter promotion. It is used to promote people who didn't score high enough on the test but who are politically connected or having sex with a supervisor. These people are referred to as someone who is "chartered".

Do you have proof of this statement?

**ct_alum** · August-01-13, 08:54 AM

[QUOTE=48205to24;396949]

Originally Posted by ct_alum

You are correct. DPD began hiring people with criminal records under the guise of "Affirmative Action". The mechanism to push unqualified people up the ranks is called a charter promotion. It is used to promote people who didn't score high enough on the test but who are politically connected or having sex with a supervisor. These people are referred to as someone who is "chartered".

Do you have proof of this statement?

What kind of proof are you requesting and why? Looking to cost somebody their job? Perhaps Ray1936 can comment as he is retired and presumably has nothing to lose.

**SWMAP** · August-01-13, 08:57 AM

An old article in the Owossa Press indicates that Jerry Cavenaugh wanted to be able to hire men with felony convictions in order to get more Blacks in the DPD:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=2358,3049995

**cla1945** · August-01-13, 09:16 AM

ct_alum is right. I don't remember exactly what year it was but it was sometime in the 80's that Detroit decided it was a good idea to begin hiring police and firefighters who had felony records. That didn't go over too well and I think the majority of the ones hired have since left the departments.
Of course, what difference did it make anyway. The head honchos, ie., thug KK, Beatty, Coyers, Miller, and on and on, were running Detroit and they were no better than the ex criminals that were hired in the 80's.

**Ray1936** · August-01-13, 10:56 AM

[QUOTE=ct_alum;396986]

Originally Posted by 48205to24

What kind of proof are you requesting and why? Looking to cost somebody their job? Perhaps Ray1936 can comment as he is retired and presumably has nothing to lose.

Affirmative action began with the election of Coleman Young. To some degree it was appropriate because the number of black officers was very minimal and nowhere near representative of Detroit's population. While I've heard rumors of recruits having troubled backgrounds, I don't know of any specific cases. I think it's more an urban legend than fact.

Promotions were another thing. The "charter promotions" turned some idiots into supervisors. Not that we didn't have any white idiot supervisors, but it seemed like some black charter promotees had a degree of arrogance that just burned me up. I dunno, not being black myself, maybe that arrogance was just part of the comeuppance. Who knows.

Anyway, in 1980, I darn near aced the lieutenant's exam and had a perfect interview score. I ended up 14 on the list. They made 20 lieutenants off that list. However, they had to promote one black for each one white sergeant. All the first 20 on that list were white. So I retired as a sergeant. But what the heck, life's too short to be bitter.

The sex factor? I'm not going there. I'm too damn old to think about that can of worms.

**night-timer** · August-02-13, 09:19 AM

Who can blame them? Felons got a secure job, looked 'respectable' in the eyes of their fellow citizens, got sex and promotions.... but did they bust their underworld buddies still working the streets?