We've Gotta Sell Art

[Ed Golick]

With apologies to the DIA.

http://detroitkidshow.com/Youve_gotta_have_art.htm

[Danny]

Detroit city gov't can't sell any art from the DIA to pay its bills. The Michigan State Constitution pass a law in 1877 that all forms of art donated for public fair humanities can not be sold. The bankruptcy judge will say no to the DIA art sale.

[cla1945]

Detroit city gov't can't sell any art from the DIA to pay its bills. The Michigan State Constitution pass a law in 1877 that all forms of art donated for public fair humanities can not be sold. The bankruptcy judge will say no to the DIA art sale.

There is also a law in the Michigan Constitution stating pensions are not to be touched, yet Orr seems to think that pensions are up for grabs.

When it comes to selling artwork versus retirees being able to pay their bills, I say start the auction now!

[Jimaz]

Christie's auction house under fire for visit to see DIA's collection

Art critics and online commentators are blasting Christie’s, the New York-based auction house, for possibly angling for a piece of the action should the Detroit Institute of Arts have to sell part of its collection to satisfy creditors in the city’s bankruptcy.

DIA director Graham Beal confirmed that two officials from Christie’s visited the museum in early June, ostensibly to appraise works on view. With the city owing an estimated $18 billion to bondholders, pensioners and others, creditors have been eyeing the city-owned art at the DIA, whose collection is undoubtedly worth billions.

Culture reporter Judith Dobrzynski on Tuesday compared Christie’s behavior to a vulture. “Shame on Christie’s,” she wrote on her blog Real Clear Arts. “Sure, business is business, but let’s remember here that it is not the Detroit Institute of Arts that has mismanaged the city and led to the bankruptcy. ... Is Christie’s so hard up that it will take any business, no matter how reprehensible?”

Art critic Tyler Green, who writes the influential art blog Modern Art Notes, used even more incendiary language, tweeting Wednesday that Christie’s “apparently hates Detroit.” In a second tweet, he wrote: “Would we be OK with Big Pharma using a national tragedy to hike up the price of drugs? No. Ditto @Christie’s and its eagerness here.”...

[jt1]

There is also a law in the Michigan Constitution stating pensions are not to be touched, yet Orr seems to think that pensions are up for grabs.

When it comes to selling artwork versus retirees being able to pay their bills, I say start the auction now!

But your own pension funds say that they are over 90% funded. Either you believe them [[and are not risking any significant cuts) or you believe they are lying and the city should be on the hook for about a $2B shortage.

Which one do you believe? If it is the first, then you have nothing to worry about. If it is the second, where is your outrage about the pension fund admins lying all along?

[compn]

its a tough question to answer.
wasnt kwame messing with the pensions?

but then kevin orr isnt an independent contractor with 'no horse in this game'.
even tho he has said that, it feels really phony to me. then he complains people are suing him? for going against the michigan constitution? its not like all of these cases are baseless, otherwise the judges would throw them out. then snyder spent the last year saying how he didnt want to do a bankruptcy. so theres all kinds of lies being thrown around.

so i have to choose between a city rife with mismanagement corruption and bribery vs a state takeover agent gettin paid from my tax dollars, whos boss has lied about his motives the entire time [[right to work, bankrupcy). oh, and snyder has been hiding his emails.

i bet i could get a look at the pension books easier than snyders emails. thats for sure.

[professorscott]

I'm afraid it's going to come down to the supremacy clause of the U.S. constitution. Bankruptcy is a Federal proceeding, and all of the various ways people think that pensions and works of art are somehow "protected" are embodied in State laws and the State constitution. Here you go, kids:

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding."

[Danny]

There is also a law in the Michigan Constitution stating pensions are not to be touched, yet Orr seems to think that pensions are up for grabs.

When it comes to selling artwork versus retirees being able to pay their bills, I say start the auction now!

The 1877 law still stands. All art from the DIA meant to public viewing will not be sold.

[Gistok]

Over Robert Hudson Tannahill's dead spirit will DIA artwork be sold to settle Detroits bankruptcy....

[mwilbert]

Over Robert Hudson Tannahill's dead spirit will DIA artwork be sold to settle Detroits bankruptcy....

Perhaps Tannahill's spirit could appear as the Spirit of DIA Future and convince the bankruptcy judge that if he approves a settlement which requires any of the DIA's collection to be sold he will die alone and unmourned while Tiny Graham hobbles down the streets of Detroit in a state of near-madness.

More likely, the spirit will not appear, and the judge will make his decision on some other basis.

[Danny]

Over Robert Hudson Tannahill's dead spirit will DIA artwork be sold to settle Detroits bankruptcy....

Find me a law in the Michigan State Constitution that say art from museums [[that is opened) can be sold to private dealers? Can that law trump the 1877 museum anti-art sell law? Once the bankruptcy judge notices that Detroit's EM Kevyn Orr wants to sell DIA art. He will say NO!

[JBMcB]

Find me a law in the Michigan State Constitution that say art from museums [[that is opened) can be sold to private dealers? Can that law trump the 1877 museum anti-art sell law? Once the bankruptcy judge notices that Detroit's EM Kevyn Orr wants to sell DIA art. He will say NO!

The bankruptcy courts work under federal laws, not state laws. They have extraordinary powers [[IE unilaterally dissolving contracts, which pretty much nobody else has the power to do.) There was one judge-ordered injunction and several other lawsuits pending in state courts over the bankruptcy. The bankruptcy judge simply set all of them aside - which he has the power to do.

He very well might say the DIA works are untouchable, but he isn't bound by state law in making that determination.

[p69rrh51]

If I remember the art is not actually owned by Detroit, but held in trust by the DIA for the State of Michigan. Can anyone elaborate?

[JBMcB]

If I remember the art is not actually owned by Detroit, but held in trust by the DIA for the State of Michigan. Can anyone elaborate?

Some of it is owned by the city. Some is held in trust [[the museum keeps it under certain stipulations) and some is owned outright by the DIA itself.

Only the stuff that the city owns is in any real jeopardy. Unfortunately that's a lot of stuff.

[p69rrh51]

For Gistok and other Robert Hudson Tannahill fanatics! Tannahill's home in Grosse Pointe Farms is for sale. Usually I would place this post in a different thread but this post seems more appropriate here. One of my sister's good friends grew up in this home and I was able to spend a little time there. There are decent interior images on the listing.

Designed by Hugh T. Keys.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...l_PhotoGallery

[Jimaz]

Thanks for the thread, Ed, and arm the pause button for this classical rapidfire gem:

Attachment 21046
3000 years of Art

This "Classical Gas Video" started out as a student film with Beethoven's 5th Symphony as the original soundtrack. After seeing the film in early 1968, Mason Williams, a writer for the Smothers Brothers Show and composer of the instrumental Classical Gas, approached the film's creator about replacing the music. The revamped music video was shown on the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour, first during the summer of 1968 and several times more throughout the year. The video has since passed into legend while Classical Gas, due in part to the impact of the video, became one of the largest selling instrumental recordings of all time. The actual video has not been seen since 1968 and, for a multitude of reasons, may never again see the light of day. This is one person's take on a recreation using the original student film [[which, incidentally, was entitled "God is Dog Spelled Backwards"), and re-edited it to Classical Gas. Give or take a few frames, it is nearly identical to the actual video that aired on the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour almost 40 years ago.

• Classical Gas

Cultural overload atcha!

[JohnnyFreddy]

Christie's auction house under fire for visit to see DIA's collection

....you all are so appalled that this precious commodity called ART is so untouchable, and "Simply mustn't be touched..." Give me a break !! It's not like they're going to burn these artworks and no one will EVER see them again. And why can't you Michiganders bid on this art, and keep it right here as a permanent loan to the DIA ??? Put your money where your quivering lips mouths are. Would you actually rather that some retired pensioner, who worked ALL HIS LIFE putting into this pension plan....lose most of his benefits, and his medical coverage??? REALLY??? Art means THAT much to you? That's heartless. Now if they actually came up with a different solution, such as the creditors and banks and insurance co.'s whom are reaping the benefits from this graft taking their share of the responsibility and blame for this ongoing municipal book doctoring and outright thievery.....then I say 'hands off' the museum art works, otherwise....sacrifice inanimate objects used to stroke the egos of the have's, to protect the hard won retirements of the elderly have not's. Humane or inhumane?....that's the question.

[Newdetroit]

Really? So perhaps we should sell everything in the National Archives to China in order to pay down our debt in the USA. There have been plenty of jobs in the federal sector which have been cut and people fired from the sequestration. So should we sell the Declaration of Independence to be humane to save jobs for these federal sector workers???

The people who donated art to the DIA did so with one intent. The intent was to provide art to the region [[to be part of the cultural fabric of the city.) Artwork in a museum shoud not be sold off because of the likes of Coleman Young, Monica Conyers, Kwame Kilpatrick, and all the other people who were incompetent or thieves in Detroit's city government. These people came into power decades after most of this art had been donated.

The DIA is one of the only cultural anchors of Detroit. It brings in tourists/visitors who in turn spend money in nearby business who in turn pay more city taxes.

[p69rrh51]

Really? So perhaps we should sell everything in the National Archives to China in order to pay down our debt in the USA. There have been plenty of jobs in the federal sector which have been cut and people fired from the sequestration. So should we sell the Declaration of Independence to be humane to save jobs for these federal sector workers???

The people who donated art to the DIA donated the art with one intent. The intent was to provide art to Metro Detroit and to be part of the cultural fabric of the city. Artwork in a museum shoud not be sold of because of the likes of Coleman Young, Monica Conyers, Kwame Kilpatrick, and all the other people who were incompetent or thieves in Detroit's city government.

The DIA is one of the only cultural anchors of Detroit. It brings in tourists/visitors who in turn spend money in nearby business who in turn pay more city taxes.

Very well stated Newdetroit! Also those same retirees did help to contribute to the problem over time. They are not blameless in this mess.

[mwilbert]

The pension benefits probably won't be that badly hurt. If you sold the art, the proceeds would have to be divided between the creditors and the pensioners, so in my estimation most of it would go to the bond insurers. The retiree health benefits are going to be gone in any case---if you sold off the museum contents they would still be gone--it just isn't nearly enough money, and those benefits are unsecured. That doesn't mean that the bankruptcy plan won't end up selling art, but it won't make that much difference to the retirees one way or the other, so I'd rather they didn't sell it.

[Scottathew]

The 1877 law still stands. All art from the DIA meant to public viewing will not be sold.

Federal Law trumps State Law.

I hope that the art will be protected somehow.

[Woodward's Cousin]

Please provide a fuller description of the 1877 act, and maybe even a citation. What is the name of the act ? What is the actual language that is believed to be controlling to the current set of facts ?

[ridgeabilly]

The time will come to protect the Art from the weasels feasting on the carcass that they helped destroy. Occupy the DIA!

[Jimaz]

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Reagan, Billionaires and Privatization

[Ray1936]

Please provide a fuller description of the 1877 act, and maybe even a citation. What is the name of the act ? What is the actual language that is believed to be controlling to the current set of facts ?

The silence is deafening.