Is Kevin Orr living too large?

[cla1945]

If this is true he should be ashamed of himself. All this on the backs of the City workers, retirees and taxpayers.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/i...z/-/index.html

[Wesley Mouch]

I don't see the problem here. A successful lawyer and a big firm comes to town, takes a pay cut, and gets criticized for room service?

I always know something's an attack when it includes 'on the backs of'.

[Downriviera]

If he was staying at the Townsend I could see an issue. But he's spending money in Detroit, so thats good. More crabcakes please.

[firstandten]

Its time to get real, Mr. Orr neither caused or exacerbated the problems we have here. People of Mr. Orr's' caliber bill out at upwards to $1000/per hour. If he can get us out of this hole and I believe he will the money spent for room service and other things is money well spent. Mr. Orr has represented the interest of Detroiters in this mess far better than our elected officials. I shudder to think how messed up this would be if our elected officials tried to guide us thru this bankruptcy. This guy has come in here and has been playing chess while our creditors and other obstructionist that he has to go up against has been playing checkers.

[Locke09]

I don't see the problem here. A successful lawyer and a big firm comes to town, takes a pay cut, and gets criticized for room service?

I always know something's an attack when it includes 'on the backs of'.

He's not really taking a pay cut. He came here, they said, to be the emergency manager, not the City's bankruptcy attorney. Jones Day is the City's bankruptcy attorney. They argue before the bankruptcy judge.

A pay cut implies I'm doing the same job for less money. Orr never had an emergency manager job before so he never had an emergency manager pay to be cut.

Besides, let's stop pretending Orr is doing this out of the kindness of his heart. This is a stepping stone. If he is successful in Detroit, he and Jones Day have a lot of other municipalities that will be lining up for their services. People will often do something for cheap, or even for free, knowing there is much more to be made down the line. Even drug dealers know that tactic.

I heard he went to a community meeting and told Detroiters he is just like them. His mother receives a pension. He eats [[I think I'm remembering it right) butter and sugar sandwiches too. Now, I don't know anyone in Detroit who eats butter and sugar sandwiches, but the point is he was trying to sound down to earth.

Just stay consistent Kevyn. Don't be just like everyone else only when you're trying to get them on your side. Just tell them to eat cake and keep it movin'.

[Zug]

Whenever these types of stories come out, I wonder what people think he should be doing? Should he have a hot plate with ramen while staying at the Salvation Army shelter?

People need to remember that he wasn't elected. He was appointed. He had to be convinced to take the job. If we want "the best" [[I know, you can debate if he is the best), you have to pay him and give him perks. Nobody would take the job if they were expected to do it pro bono.

[SWMAP]

When I travel on business, I often use room service as I don't like to sit alone at dinner.
As for Orr, can you imagine the hell his meals would be if he tried to eat at a bar or in Greektown? All the interruptions?
So , $3000 in four mos comes to $1250 per month. Say 40 meals in the month [[he would likely host some working meals for a confidant or two) comes to about $ 30 per meal or less. Is this terrible? It includes the waiter charge and a nice tip for a working stiff, I'm sure.
As to the penthouse, can you guess how cheap that deal must be; how happy the Book must be because those apartments sat empty so long.
This is a non-issue to me. I bet he flies first -class too. So does my boss. It goes with the territory and I'm not jealous.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Outside of the pensioners potentially getting screwed, he's doing a stand-up job. This should have been done a long time ago.

[firstandten]

He's not really taking a pay cut. He came here, they said, to be the emergency manager, not the City's bankruptcy attorney. Jones Day is the City's bankruptcy attorney. They argue before the bankruptcy judge.

A pay cut implies I'm doing the same job for less money. Orr never had an emergency manager job before so he never had an emergency manager pay to be cut.

Besides, let's stop pretending Orr is doing this out of the kindness of his heart. This is a stepping stone. If he is successful in Detroit, he and Jones Day have a lot of other municipalities that will be lining up for their services. People will often do something for cheap, or even for free, knowing there is much more to be made down the line. Even drug dealers know that tactic.

I heard he went to a community meeting and told Detroiters he is just like them. His mother receives a pension. He eats [[I think I'm remembering it right) butter and sugar sandwiches too. Now, I don't know anyone in Detroit who eats butter and sugar sandwiches, but the point is he was trying to sound down to earth.

Just stay consistent Kevyn. Don't be just like everyone else only when you're trying to get them on your side. Just tell them to eat cake and keep it movin'.

But he is taking a pay cut. He could use the same time he is spending as an emergency manager and be an lawyer and billing out the going rate as a partner in an international law firm. It happens in Washington all of the time. People that could make much more in the private sector come and work in government for a few years. Its a win-win the people get the benefit of there expertise for a few years and they feel that there are doing a civic duty plus they get to pad there resume. Orr is padding his resume... so what ! Detroit needs help and evidently there is nobody locally who has the skill sets that he has. Dude grew up in Ft Lauderdale they probably do eat butter and sugar sandwiches down there. Again so what, the point is in his way he is letting them know he comes from a humble background as well and he feels there pain. He came in here and learned the political culture and had an understanding of the city about as quickly and as well as any outsider who has come in here to do a job. I'm sure he's putting his dreams on hold as well. He was in the process to go home and open and run the Miami office of his law firm when Detroit came about. People can nit-pick and that's there right but all this living large stuff is nothing but a distraction. If and when he starts screwing up then we have something to talk about.

[Locke09]

It's fine for people to say his lifestyle goes with the territory and that he deserves what he has earned. I only have a problem when that doesn't extend to everyone else.

Only a few privileged deserve what they've earned? The employees and retirees don't deserve what they've earned? A person getting $19000 per year has an unsustainable lucrative pension? The bondholders don't deserve a return of their investment?

Oh I know, there's not enough to go around. But he should either show some sensitivity or stop with his "I'm one of you" dog and pony show.

[SWMAP]

I am not able to see the video although I read the story.
Tell me, does Dietz display copies of an expense report detailing the very high-end entrees? In the story, you only read: "some say."

[firstandten]

It's fine for people to say his lifestyle goes with the territory and that he deserves what he has earned. I only have a problem when that doesn't extend to everyone else.

Only a few privileged deserve what they've earned? The employees and retirees don't deserve what they've earned? A person getting $19000 per year has an unsustainable lucrative pension? The bondholders don't deserve a return of their investment?

Oh I know, there's not enough to go around. But he should either show some sensitivity or stop with his "I'm one of you" dog and pony show.

Look I understand where you are going with this . The pensioners and retirees deserve their money and I hope state law will prevail in this case. Its a raw deal, I get it but that's where we are. But I believe he will attempt to lessen the impact as much as he can. If the pensioners must take a haircut I believe he is going to structure it so that the bulk of the pain will fall on the younger retirees, reasoning being there is an chance they can find work.

[Wesley Mouch]

It's fine for people to say his lifestyle goes with the territory and that he deserves what he has earned. I only have a problem when that doesn't extend to everyone else.

Only a few privileged deserve what they've earned? The employees and retirees don't deserve what they've earned? A person getting $19000 per year has an unsustainable lucrative pension? The bondholders don't deserve a return of their investment?

Oh I know, there's not enough to go around. But he should either show some sensitivity or stop with his "I'm one of you" dog and pony show.

Orr's has grandstanded far less than Detroit's previous elected leaders.

[Honky Tonk]

If this is true he should be ashamed of himself. All this on the backs of the City workers, retirees and taxpayers.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/i...z/-/index.html

I'm going to start making him samiches.

[wardwood]

I wonder if he is a big tipper?

[sumas]

If he was staying at the Townsend I could see an issue. But he's spending money in Detroit, so thats good. More crabcakes please.

That's funny!

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I always know something's an attack when it includes 'on the backs of'.

Couldn't agree with you more, Wes. It is not even possible to do something on "the backs of the poor" because they don't have money. I think people are implying that money spent in one place is then not spent of on the poor. But that's ridiculous. We spend [[and continue to spend) an enormous amount of money on anti-poverty programs. But those programs ignore the truth [[start flaming me now) that poverty is to a great extent a lifestyle choice. Why do some people make it out of poverty? Why do some people brought up with money end up broke? They make bad decisions, that's why. Circumstances beyond your control can help or hurt you, but you yourself are the biggest contributing factor to whether or not life goes well for you. If you're poor and 5 years old, that is not your fault. If you are poor and 50, it is.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Couldn't agree with you more, Wes. It is not even possible to do something on "the backs of the poor" because they don't have money. I think people are implying that money spent in one place is then not spent of on the poor. But that's ridiculous. We spend [[and continue to spend) an enormous amount of money on anti-poverty programs. But those programs ignore the truth [[start flaming me now) that poverty is to a great extent a lifestyle choice. Why do some people make it out of poverty? Why do some people brought up with money end up broke? They make bad decisions, that's why. Circumstances beyond your control can help or hurt you, but you yourself are the biggest contributing factor to whether or not life goes well for you. If you're poor and 5 years old, that is not your fault. If you are poor and 50, it is.

So please explain to me why more people born into wealth continue to live above poverty most of their lives, and most people born into poverty continue to be impoverished most of their lives? Why do people try to put their kids in the best schools when that doesn't matter, all that matters is how hard the child is willing to work? What you wrote was powerful, it sounded great and stirred up a very warm feeling in my heart. I was inspired to go out and conquer the world after reading it. Too bad it doesn't hold up in the real world and practically no one follows such silly reasoning. People wouldn't be breaking their backs working their fingers to the bone to raise their kids in the best neighborhoods and send them to the best school if the choice was solely on the individual. They know like you and I, the better opportunities and chances a person has, the better opportunities and chances that person will realize. Most Metro Detroiters wouldn't raise their kids in Detroit because they wouldn't want their kids to face the grim future that most Detroit children face. Although they continue to deny that Detroit children face a grim future.

[Zacha341]

Maybe we should put him up at the Shorecrest on Jefferson... he'd be close to all of the downtown action!

If he was staying at the Townsend I could see an issue. But he's spending money in Detroit, so thats good. More crabcakes please.

[Zacha341]

Yep... I agree.

Besides, let's stop pretending Orr is doing this out of the kindness of his heart. This is a stepping stone. If he is successful in Detroit, he and Jones Day have a lot of other municipalities that will be lining up for their services. People will often do something for cheap, or even for free, knowing there is much more to be made down the line. Even drug dealers know that tactic.

I heard he went to a community meeting and told Detroiters he is just like them. His mother receives a pension. He eats [[I think I'm remembering it right) butter and sugar sandwiches too. Now, I don't know anyone in Detroit who eats butter and sugar sandwiches, but the point is he was trying to sound down to earth...

[Cliffy]

Everyone defending Orr and his crab cakes and steak bites are the same people demanding a city worker making $15 an hour be fired because he fell asleep in his truck. Just like I said in another thread, the elites have brainwashed the masses to defending them. If he is on the state dime then he should be getting what other state workers get. 8.75 for lunch and $17 for dinner. Plus he should be staying at a hotel that offers the state rate of $65 per night.

[Wesley Mouch]

So please explain to me why more people born into wealth continue to live above poverty most of their lives, and most people born into poverty continue to be impoverished most of their lives? ...

Most is not all. But let's accept your premise. That fate or situation determine you future. What to do?

What we've been doing since we established our social safety net hasn't worked. So what will work? More of hte same? That doesn't seem smart to me.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Most is not all. But let's accept your premise. That fate or situation determine you future. What to do?

To accept my premise you have to first get my premise right. You assume like too many that life is black and white and there is no gray areas. WRONG!

My premise isn't fate or situation determines your future, it is that your situation FACTORS into your future. It's retarded to think one's own actions have nothing to do with where they end up in life. It's equally retarded to think the situations one is born into have nothing to do with where one ends up in life either. It's a combination of both. Crazy, isn't it? A gray area? Who would of thunk it?

[Wesley Mouch]

To accept my premise you have to first get my premise right. You assume like too many that life is black and white and there is no gray areas. WRONG!

My premise isn't fate or situation determines your future, it is that your situation FACTORS into your future. It's retarded to think one's own actions have nothing to do with where they end up in life. It's equally retarded to think the situations one is born into have nothing to do with where one ends up in life either. It's a combination of both. Crazy, isn't it? A gray area? Who would of thunk it?

We thus agree that neither fate nor situation determines your future. Certainly one's starting situation has a lot to do with your current situation.

Starting situation is of course complex. Its not just money. Its everything. Prenatal through hospice care. I'm all in favor of a basic social safety net. But going beyond the basics hasn't proven to do anything about changing one's 'situation'. So let's stop trying.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

So please explain to me why more people born into wealth continue to live above poverty most of their lives, and most people born into poverty continue to be impoverished most of their lives?

Anyone who graduates high school, doesn't become a parent before age 20 [[and is married when they do), and avoids drugs and alcohol has statistically almost no chance of spending much time, let alone a lifetime, in poverty.

Why did my friend Jowell in New York move to the US in 2000 from Haiti with no education, no money, speaking almost no English and now owns 2 very successful small businesses? How did he do it? HE WORKED HARD, SAVED HIS MONEY, AND PROMOTED HIS OWN IDEAS. And he is about to become a citizen. Great guy. No one ever told him his circumstances were permanent or out of his control. He wanted things and he obtained them. No hand outs, no complaining. He spent years working in bars, starting at the lowest rung. But before striking out on his own, he was running a bar for someone else. He rose from $5/hour [[plus tips) barback to head bartender making bank in 4 years. When his T-shirt, and then record label, took off, he was able to give that up. He has earned everything he has from scratch. He has more than most people do, and started with far less not that long ago.

As far as helping kids, getting kids out of non-schools that we call Detroit Public Schools is the best thing society can do to help them. Even if your intentions are good, not favoring a broad school choice program is to condemn most kids in this city to getting a crappy education. The entire United States Treasury could not turn our schools around; lack of money is not the issue. So lets abandon them, and allow kids to attend other schools [[public in other districts, charter and private anywhere) where they would have a shot at an education. The kids are more important than the system.