Detnews article on Gilbert trying to buy criminal justice bldgs near Greektown

**emu steve** · July-18-13, 05:13 AM

Latest news.

"In its answer to the county’s request for proposals, due this afternoon, Rock envisions transforming the jail and criminal justice sites into what it will describe as a mixed-use retail, entertainment, residential and office development that would serve as a gateway to downtown from the east. Competing proposals are possible, but as of close of business Wednesday none had been received by county."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2...dq2eh

Maybe, just maybe, stadiums, casinos, arena, theaters, residential, mixed use, etc. just might work in Detroit's stadium and entertainment district.

Don't give up hope but things take time.

Comerica Park is what only 13 years young.

**artds** · July-18-13, 09:20 AM

So is the new jail project dead at this point? Am I understanding this correctly that the existing structures are going to be demoed?

**mwilbert** · July-18-13, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by artds

So is the new jail project dead at this point? Am I understanding this correctly that the existing structures are going to be demoed?

No, it isn't dead yet. Wayne County hasn't decided what to pick from a menu of unattractive options.

**emu steve** · July-18-13, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by artds

So is the new jail project dead at this point? Am I understanding this correctly that the existing structures are going to be demoed?

That would certainly be a possibility. I doubt Gilbert & Co. would think that the existing structures fit his plans.

Without commenting on keeping the existing structures, I'm surprised there isn't more comment on this potentially huge story.

We probably had thousands of posts on the arena over the years, which is a big story, but this would be a very big story itself.

Who knows, maybe Gilbert will spend 650M in acquisition/development expenditures.

I see the arena as 1a and Greektown, if it comes to pass, as 1b as far a huge development stories for the CBD area.

Both are arguably 'trans-formative' in scope.

**webband1** · July-18-13, 09:46 AM

His offer is to buy up not just the incomplete jail, but also the juvenile detention facility, the two existing jails, and the Frank Murphy Hall of Justice. That means he is offering to buy up all the land south of Gratiot, west of 375, north of Macomb, and east of Beaubien, with the exception of the former police HQ, which is city-owned. That's at least 6 blocks worth of land.

**mwilbert** · July-18-13, 09:54 AM

If he does get this site, I would expect he would make an offer to the city for Police HQ. That might be the best chance it has not to be demolished.

**Novine** · July-18-13, 10:11 AM

No land for Ilich?

**tg_jessica** · July-18-13, 01:50 PM

From what I heard on the Craig Fahle Show on WDET, Wayne County has stopped all work on the jail site and has a six month moratorium on any future work. This is supposedly to review the project, see what went wrong, what are the options to move forward on it or get out of it. It sounds like if the money numbers are right. the county will sell the sites and move the whole criminal justice complex to the former Mound Road prision site.

**mwilbert** · July-18-13, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by tg_jessica

It sounds like if the money numbers are right. the county will sell the sites and move the whole criminal justice complex to the former Mound Road prision site.

I think you are correct, but I don't know what the county will decide is required to make the money numbers right. I can't imagine anybody making them whole, so the question is how much does the county have to write off, and who is willing to do the write-off.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · July-18-13, 09:03 PM

It was widely believed by civic leaders, business people, neighbors, architects, and urban planners alike that the original World Trade Center in New York was conceived and designed horribly, and it crushed lower Manhattan's ability to be a vibrant downtown. As we all know, years later something awful happened. But from that day forward, the same neighborhood is being rebuilt much differently, and better. Lower Manhattan is now a much better place to live/work/visit in every respect.

Detroit now finds itself in such a bind [[much less tragic to be sure). This money pit might yet transform into something much better for everyone. We have the chance to make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. I don't know how much the county would need to get from Rock Financial to make sense, but I hope they make it work. Here's to hoping!

PS Adding a huge jail complex and associated facilities could create a little boomlet for support businesses around the Mound Road location.

**Danny** · July-19-13, 07:28 AM

For Gilbert's POV, he doesn't want to see an eyesore next to his prime real estate [[which is Downtown Detroit). Buying that failed Wayne County Jail Building project lot and putting up his new skyscaper will signify Detroit's revival.

**emu steve** · July-19-13, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

For Gilbert's POV, he doesn't want to see an eyesore next to his prime real estate [[which is Downtown Detroit). Buying that failed Wayne County Jail Building project lot and putting up his new skyscaper will signify Detroit's revival.

Agree. Get the criminal justice system out of prime CBD land.

Some people must feel they died and went to Heaven reading that five companies wish to bid on that site.

That is the best evidence yet that even though Detroit is bankrupt it is showing some real life in the CBD.

There is always darkness before the light.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...xt|FRONTPAGE|p

**compn** · July-19-13, 10:48 AM

noone wants a jail next to the stadium.

all gilbert has to do is get some 3rd party estimates of how much taxes a vibrant downtown will bring into the area vs a prison.

**drjeff** · July-19-13, 12:24 PM

That area between downtown and Eastern Market is pretty ideal for what Gilbert has planned. It's kind of a dead zone now.

**Gistok** · July-19-13, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Agree. Get the criminal justice system out of prime CBD land.

Some people must feel they died and went to Heaven reading that five companies wish to bid on that site.

That is the best evidence yet that even though Detroit is bankrupt it is showing some real life in the CBD.

There is always darkness before the light.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...xt|FRONTPAGE|p

Well there's not that much light as one would think.... of the 5 companies listed 2 cannot be found on the internet... a 3rd is just a real estate auction company... a 4th is Gilbert... and [[drum roll) the 5th is the same Canadian company that bought the Silverdome [[wasn't that for a casino?) and the 3 parts of the Penobscot Building... as well as the Silvers Building [[People's State Bank) next door that they originally wanted to tear down for a parking structure.

So does that mean we have 2 hidden buyers? And as for that Canadian guy who owns the Silverdome... how's that coming along anyway...
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/catego...ac-silverdome/

Aside from Gilbert... call me skeptical....

Also... some of you need to think this thru... we're not just talking about the new county jail site... there's also the huge Juvenile Justice Center... which cost a TON of money to build just north of the Greektown Hotel/parking structure. What is the county going to replace that with?

And then there's the Murphy Hall of Justice Courts and offices in that 12 story building. Where are they going to go if that location gets sold?

After having wasted $100 million of the county's taxpayers money... lets spend another few hundred million relocating everything... just so our entertainment district looks more connected...

I'm basically not against the entire concept... but who's going to pay for all of this??

**Jason** · July-19-13, 02:08 PM

On one hand this gives hope for the preservation of the old police and jail buildings, a better use of the new jail site, and a more urban area altogether.

On the other hand, I feel like that kind of civic government stuff [[not as much the jails but the courts) symbolically belong in downtowns, not in suburban complexes. I also think that the mound site will be more difficult to get to and less pleasant to be at than downtown.

**Gistok** · July-19-13, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

On one hand this gives hope for the preservation of the old police and jail buildings, a better use of the new jail site, and a more urban area altogether.

On the other hand, I feel like that kind of civic government stuff [[not as much the jails but the courts) symbolically belong in downtowns, not in suburban complexes. I also think that the mound site will be more difficult to get to and less pleasant to be at than downtown.

Jason, I agree with your assessment... especially the courts and offices... Mound Rd. isn't exactly a bustling place for court workers to spend their lunch hour...

As far as preservation goes however... just 1300 Beaubien is worth preserving. If they found a reuse for the new Juvenile Justice complex [[which really doesn't look too bad) then that's fine. As for the Brutalist style Murphy Hall of Justice.... maybe a modern makeover could be done to the building... but the jail buildings themselves aren't architecturally worth saving.

How about moving the courts to the art deco moderne US Courthouse?.... and moving the US District Courts to the empty Old County Building... turning it into a fancy Federal Courthouse... which is what the old 1894 [[destroyed) courthouse used to be...

**subsidized** · July-19-13, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

And as for that Canadian guy who owns the Silverdome... how's that coming along anyway...
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/nfl/pontiac-silverdome/

Not to get off subject but does anybody have an update on the silverdome roof?

Back to the topic at hand, I think it would be good to get the jails out of downtown but Frank Murphy brings hundreds of people downtown everyday. I recently served on a jury there for two weeks and was pleased to see the amount of people walking around [[mostly to Greektown) for lunch. I think that whole area benefits greatly from the courthouse being there.

**mwilbert** · July-19-13, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by subsidized

Not to get off subject but does anybody have an update on the silverdome roof?

Back to the topic at hand, I think it would be good to get the jails out of downtown but Frank Murphy brings hundreds of people downtown everyday. I recently served on a jury there for two weeks and was pleased to see the amount of people walking around [[mostly to Greektown) for lunch. I think that whole area benefits greatly from the courthouse being there.

One thing to consider is that a lot of people who have to go to the courthouse, either as jurors or as defendants may not have cars, so putting them someplace where there is at least theoretically public transportation might be a good idea.

**Cliffy** · July-19-13, 08:50 PM

Just give it to Gilbert because he will at least do something. That guy from the Silverdome is useless. He can't even fix the roof and that thing hasn't had an event in a year or more.

**erikd** · July-20-13, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

One thing to consider is that a lot of people who have to go to the courthouse, either as jurors or as defendants may not have cars, so putting them someplace where there is at least theoretically public transportation might be a good idea.

This is a big reason why government buildings tend to be downtown. It provides access to everybody and is well served by mass transit. I don't know how you can require citizens to serve jury duty at a place that is inaccessible by public transportation.

**Spartan** · July-23-13, 06:58 PM

Gilbert's big plans for the area:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...on-development

**subsidized** · July-23-13, 06:59 PM

Gilbert is proposing a $500 million mixed use development.

More at Crains http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...on-development

**Novine** · July-23-13, 07:15 PM

I bet it makes Ilitch nervous to hear that Gilbert is looking for public money.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · July-23-13, 09:38 PM

If the county can lease Mound Road for $1 per year, why in the world would they not cut their losses and jump at this? Its SO crazy to have a big jail downtown anyway.