Justice for Trayvon [Protest Rally in Grand Circus Park]

[Richard]

It is just conversation.

911 operators are just that ,they have no authority to order anything ,which is probably why it was not an issue during the trial.

You are standing in the street 4 guys are getting ready to beat you , call 911 and they instruct you to stand there because police are on the way.

Would you?

What would the outcome had been if he had not followed him and he kicked a door in and raped someone?

We have less then 30 seconds to base a decision without all of the afterwards knowledge,its you an unknown stranger and its raining and there is a history of vandalism,breaking and entering in the complex,it does not matter what color one is,it would have had the same result, a stranger is a stranger.


When it gets to the point where no citizen has the right to question a stranger on private property or in their neighborhood then we have serious problems,I guess we are there, just as we are at the point of a jury by our peers in a court room no longer has meaning if we do not agree with the outcome we can just go destroy other peoples property and burn flags,good solution, or maybe why we are here to begin with.

I guess some just prefer a divided country because it fits their agendas.

[EastsideAl]

Wow, that's a lot of projection.

[KJ5]

I wasn't there. I don't know exactly what happened. I do know Trayvon is dead, so it seems a little late for "Justice for Trayvon". At this point it should be justice for his family and justice for all the potential Trayvons out there. Because if George Zimmerman was black and Trayvon Martin was half white/half hispanic somehow I don't think it would have taken 3 weeks for charges to be brought and I don't think there would have been a not guilty verdict.

[hudkina]

Zimmerman - an adult private citizen with no more or less right to be in that apartment complex than Martin - followed and then confronted a teenager walking home.

But that's the thing. You don't know that Zimmerman confronted Martin. For all we know it was Martin that confronted Zimmerman.

It's not illegal to presume a stranger walking around on a dark, rainy night in the backways of a gated community that had seen a rash of crimes over the previous year, may be a little suspicious. While obviously that presumption was wrong, and again, you may say that Zimmerman was profiling Martin, but it's not absurd to think that such a person may possibly be up to no good under those conditions and worth further investigation. Especially so by the leader of the neighborhood watch.

[Richard]

Wow, that's a lot of projection.

lol has it not been like that from the start?

I do not think it has ever been about what happened,more so about the parties involved,there is good and bad in everybody.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Al, I'm feelin your posts, and it's sad that it took three pages of hypotheticals to point out some obvious shit.

We tell our kids in every single capacity to be fearful of being approached by strange men. To this day, when a shady sucker strolls towards me on the street or a vehicle suddenly pulls up or stops by me, my heart skips a beat, and I'm in my thirties for Christ's sake. That fear of being assaulted or stolen may lessen with age, but it never really goes away. How it is that Mr. Stranger-Danger can approach a teenager on the street and yet so many grown-ass adults can't even empathize with said young man tells me a whole lot more than where our country stands with guns or race.

Americans generally love innocent little children, babies, fetuses.... But as soon as the child turns into a teen, they become foreign, frightening, potentially deadly monsters capable of flash mobs and columbine. The adults, charged with running this madhouse, will gladly use them for whatever purposes we can profit from in return, like zero-tolerance laws, the school-to-prison pipeline, the lifetime slavery-inducing college debtors industrial complex. Or give permission to abuse them like the police and Catholic priests. Medicate them with psychtropics until they kill themselves. And then have the nerve to wonder why it is that the young people are so quick to turn on us.

If I was in Tre Martin's shoes and approached by some creepyfuk like George Zimmerman, I would have beat his head in the first chance I had too.

[Richard]

I wasn't there. I don't know exactly what happened. I do know Trayvon is dead, so it seems a little late for "Justice for Trayvon". At this point it should be justice for his family and justice for all the potential Trayvons out there. Because if George Zimmerman was black and Trayvon Martin was half white/half hispanic somehow I don't think it would have taken 3 weeks for charges to be brought and I don't think there would have been a not guilty verdict.

That is not true at all, I know several non whites [[fellow Americans)who used the SYG or self defense rule and never went to court or had charges filed,color has nothing to do with it unless someone makes it an issue.

[hudkina]

I'm sorry, but I was never taught to straddle a man, bash his head into the pavement and break his nose, and that's where the disconnect lies. If I were being followed by a stranger and I'm only a few dozen yards from home, I'm going to quickly run to my house and call 911 from behind the comfort of a locked door. I'm not going to confront him, but I guess that's just how I was raised. I guess for everyone else, it's okay to attack someone for following you.

[Richard]

If I was in Tre Martin's shoes and approached by some creepyfuk like George Zimmerman, I would have beat his head in the first chance I had too.

Ahhh if the roles were reversed would you do the same? Being 6'2 against the 5'6 you would have an advantage.

[detroitsgwenivere]

^^I doubt Tre would've even considered that dynamic at the time.

Some of us don't have a choice but to violently defend ourselves. Especially those of us who are brought up in an environment where violence is used as a method to solve conflict. We are all products of our environments.

I'm not saying it should stay this way. We need to change how we treat our young people, so that we can break this cycle, and tragedies like these can be avoided.

[emu steve]

^^I doubt Tre would've even considered that dynamic at the time.

Some of us don't have a choice but to violently defend ourselves. Especially those of us who are brought up in an environment where violence is used as a method to solve conflict. We are all products of our environments.

Are you speaking of George Zimmerman?

GZ was raised in a strict Catholic home and he was an altar boy in No. Virginia. He also worked in the church rectory, etc. I am speaking of Manasass, Va where he was raised. I don't know much about Manasass [[the number of times I have been there I could count on one hand) so I can't speak of crime problems there, but it isn't a central city [[e.g., Detroit, Chicago, etc.) with serious crime problems.

I'm having trouble understanding how GZ went from an altar boy to someone who could act like a vigilante.

There must have been some 'transformation' which took place within him, presumably in Sanford?????

[Meddle]

Blah, blah, blah, silly-assed propaganda nonsense.

Dude, if you want to post a news link, do so in text.

[Honky Tonk]

http://www.abcactionnews.com/gallery...e1371846154216

[bailey]

I wasn't there. I don't know exactly what happened. I do know Trayvon is dead, so it seems a little late for "Justice for Trayvon".

Nobody alive today but Zimmerman was there and knows exactly what happened.... what I know beyond a doubt in my mind though is Zimmerman doesn't get out of his car, none of this happens. And what I also know beyond a doubt in my mind is that the only reason Zimmerman got out of the car is because he had a concealed gun.

[noise]

Right you are. It wouldn't have been the broken nose -- it probably would have been the head bangs on the pavement. Oh, its so easy to judge after the fact and encourage calm, reasoned judgement.

Which is not happening here. Unless you think not being a maniacal vigilante is not easy.

[hudkina]

What I don't understand is why people can't understand Zimmerman's state of mind. The apartment complex had been seeing quite a few break-ins and thefts. Martin was walking through the backways of the apartment complex on a cold and rainy night. Zimmerman did not know who Martin was or whether Martin should or shouldn't be there. Zimmerman was in charge of keeping an eye out for suspicious people [[i.e. people he didn't know, walking through the community). Zimmerman had called the non-emergency police number several times prior to report suspicious people. In many of those cases, the suspicious person had left prior to the police arriving. In one of those cases, the suspicious person had later been arrested with items stolen from an apartment in the complex. Zimmerman felt that he didn't want to lose sight of this particular stranger, so he decided to leave his car to keep an eye on him until the police arrived.

While in retrospect, when you learn that Martin was a visitor and was not doing anything more than return home from a trip to the store, it may be easy to judge Zimmerman for being an overzealous vigilante, but there was absolutely no way Zimmerman could have known what Martin was doing in the complex at that particular time.

[hudkina]

Some of us don't have a choice but to violently defend ourselves.

And that's why Detroit with just 700,000 people see's over 300 murders a year, while the suburbs with some 3+ million barely see a few dozen. There really is a way of resolving conflicts without resorting to violence. Is it possible that Martin felt his only option was to use violence to solve this problem when he would likely be alive if he had chosen to resolve the issue in a non-violent manner?

[Honky Tonk]

[QUOTE=hudkina;393677]And that's why Detroit with just 700,000 people see's over 300 murders a yearQUOTE]

BS, that's NOT why. There's a big difference between defending yourself while attacked, opening fire into a crowd because you're a dumbass and didn't like the way someone looked @ you, and murdering someone after they gave you their leather jacket.

[Johnnny5]

Some of us don't have a choice but to violently defend ourselves. Especially those of us who are brought up in an environment where violence is used as a method to solve conflict. We are all products of our environments.

..........

[Downriviera]

Zimmerman is being portrayed as a monster who got out of his car with a gun and hunted down a child walking from the store with a bag of Skittles. The same Zimmerman who in a neighborhood with a lot of crime going on bought a lock for a woman who had a breakin while she was upstairs terrified with her little baby. He gave the woman his phone number and his wifes and told her not to hesitate to call. He also told her to come over to their home anytime if she wanted to. And now we have Martin, who was previously found by police with a breakin tool and jewelry. The timeline shows he was taking an awful long time walking from the store to where his father was. Zimmerman said to 911 that he was acting suspicious and looking into homes. So was he walking home or was he also casing homes.

[noise]

What I don't understand is why people can't understand Zimmerman's state of mind. The apartment complex had been seeing quite a few break-ins and thefts. Martin was walking through the backways of the apartment complex on a cold and rainy night. Zimmerman did not know who Martin was or whether Martin should or shouldn't be there. Zimmerman was in charge of keeping an eye out for suspicious people [[i.e. people he didn't know, walking through the community). Zimmerman had called the non-emergency police number several times prior to report suspicious people. In many of those cases, the suspicious person had left prior to the police arriving. In one of those cases, the suspicious person had later been arrested with items stolen from an apartment in the complex. Zimmerman felt that he didn't want to lose sight of this particular stranger, so he decided to leave his car to keep an eye on him until the police arrived.

While in retrospect, when you learn that Martin was a visitor and was not doing anything more than return home from a trip to the store, it may be easy to judge Zimmerman for being an overzealous vigilante, but there was absolutely no way Zimmerman could have known what Martin was doing in the complex at that particular time.

I think a lot of people understand his mindset, but just differently than you do. Based on his own words [[including his defunct MySpace page), it's easy to see what type of person he is.

[noise]

Zimmerman is being portrayed as a monster who got out of his car with a gun and hunted down a child walking from the store with a bag of Skittles. The same Zimmerman who in a neighborhood with a lot of crime going on bought a lock for a woman who had a breakin while she was upstairs terrified with her little baby. He gave the woman his phone number and his wifes and told her not to hesitate to call. He also told her to come over to their home anytime if she wanted to. And now we have Martin, who was previously found by police with a breakin tool and jewelry. The timeline shows he was taking an awful long time walking from the store to where his father was. Zimmerman said to 911 that he was acting suspicious and looking into homes. So was he walking home or was he also casing homes.

He's being portrayed in the way his actions portrayed him.

It may have been worse if Trayvon was a Mexican or his "ex-hoe" for which he seemed to have so much disdain.

[Downriviera]

He's being portrayed in the way his actions portrayed him.

It may have been worse if Trayvon was a Mexican or his "ex-hoe" for which he seemed to have so much disdain.

And his actions were? Following a suspicious person in a high crime neighborhood. And if you listen to the 911 tape, they never told him not to get out of his car. They actually asked him for more information as to where the person was going. Then when Zimmerman asked if he should have continued following the 911 operator said "We don't need you to do that". He should have stopped there. But here is a guy who has called 911 before and by the time the cops got there the house was robbed and the perps were long gone. So he decided to continue to follow, which is not breaking any laws. He followed others before and they are still alive because they did not attack him.

[Downtown Lady]

Standing ovation for EastsideAl!!!

[Downriviera]

Eastside Al; on the Milt's BBQ thread he mourns the loss of Milt, killed by a teenage robber. On this thread he wants to hang a guy trying to help stop crime in his neighborhood?