Justice for Trayvon [Protest Rally in Grand Circus Park]

**ridgeabilly** · July-14-13, 01:19 PM

**Justice for Trayvon Martin - Detroit**

Peoples Assembly and Speakout

Grand Circus Park [[Woodward and Adams), Detroit

Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:PM

**RickBeall** · July-14-13, 02:50 PM

No danger of this becoming imflammatory.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · July-14-13, 03:10 PM

The problem here was the law in Florida, in my opinion. The jury reached the proper verdict with the law they have on the books. Call your local Florida legislator to prevent this same outcome in the future.

**noggin** · July-14-13, 03:17 PM

According to a study conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, between 1976 and 2011 there were 279,384 black murder victims, which means that 262,621 were murdered by other blacks, resulting in the 94 percent figure.

Even though blacks make-up only 13 percent of the nation’s population, they account for more than 50 percent of homicide victims. Have a nice useless demonstration.

**mtburb** · July-14-13, 03:24 PM

And let's hope that it doesn't turn into a remake of 1967!

If it does though, there better be no rioting on my street or better yet, anywhere in Wyandotte! But if rioters do come down here, expect to not see me at all for a few long hours.

**RapBrown** · July-14-13, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by BLGaughan

Careful not to step in any human feces left behind by Grand Circus Park's most recent gathering of mindless liberals.

That's very thoughtfull, just think of the guy who would say somthing like this after this sad verdict. There goes your myth of White Supremecy!

**Meddle** · July-14-13, 04:25 PM

Is a third thread really necessary?

**Newdetroit** · July-14-13, 11:48 PM

Maybe you should go to the demonstration for the 4 people murdered in Inkster on July 4th weekend.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/22834671/peace-walk-held-in-inkster-following-string-of-murders

**Wesley Mouch** · July-14-13, 11:53 PM

I'm glad our justice system errs in the direction of not convicting people when there's reasonable doubt.

**Ltdave** · July-15-13, 08:21 AM

when is the 'peace walk' for the 13 service members killed by Hasan at Ft Hood?

the 'stand your ground' law wasnt used in the defense because at the point George was on his back getting his head beat against the sidewalk, it became just straight out self-defense against a lethal attack...

there were 35 some 'children' shot and killed in Chicago last month. whens the 'peace rally' for them?

**corktownyuppie** · July-15-13, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I'm glad our justice system errs in the direction of not convicting people when there's reasonable doubt.

I can live with that position. My issue is with a law that allows deadly force based on one's subjective experience and makes not demand to de-escalate potential conflict as a first choice.

There's a reason why we have rules of engagement in military conflict; all it takes is one misunderstanding and two countries can be at war. The worst thing is that you can now have two people arguing with each other claiming that they both turned to deadly force because they both feared for their life...knowing that the legal system will always favor the survivor against the deceased, we are now providing incentive to be the first to shoot and with the biggest gun.

I don't see this as a moral or legal positive in any way.

**guito13** · July-15-13, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by ridgeabilly

**Justice for Trayvon Martin - Detroit**

Peoples Assembly and Speakout

Grand Circus Park [[Woodward and Adams), Detroit

Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:PM

So how did this turn out?

**michimoby** · July-15-13, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I can live with that position. My issue is with a law that allows deadly force based on one's subjective experience and makes not demand to de-escalate potential conflict as a first choice.

There's a reason why we have rules of engagement in military conflict; all it takes is one misunderstanding and two countries can be at war. The worst thing is that you can now have two people arguing with each other claiming that they both turned to deadly force because they both feared for their life...knowing that the legal system will always favor the survivor against the deceased, we are now providing incentive to be the first to shoot and with the biggest gun.

I don't see this as a moral or legal positive in any way.

Co-signed.

The true tragedies in the Zimmerman case center around the attempt to stretch a potentially solid-gold manslaughter case into a second-degree murder charge, a shaky case created by the prosecution, and a completely draconic Stand Your Ground law which leaves unlimited options for interpretation.

**noise** · July-15-13, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Ltdave

when is the 'peace walk' for the 13 service members killed by Hasan at Ft Hood?

the 'stand your ground' law wasnt used in the defense because at the point George was on his back getting his head beat against the sidewalk, it became just straight out self-defense against a lethal attack...

there were 35 some 'children' shot and killed in Chicago last month. whens the 'peace rally' for them?

This is such a dishonest and disgusting approach. Yeah, just change the subject. Don't address the topic at hand. Never take a stance on anything because there's always another issue worth comparing.

SYG should have applied to Trayvon when he was stalked and harassed by Zimmerman. His attack was justified, not Zimmerman's, who wrongly initiated the situation.

**Detroitnerd** · July-15-13, 09:31 AM

What happened? When did they start giving out crystal balls again? Everybody seems so darn sure about what happened.

**hudkina** · July-15-13, 09:38 AM

Do people not realize what "burden of proof" or "beyond a reasonable doubt" mean? The jury couldn't possibly convict Zimmerman of murder or even manslaughter based on all the evidence provided to them. In fact it would be a travesty if they did. Did Zimmerman profile Martin? Yes. Did Zimmerman escalate the situation against better judgement? Yes. Are either of those necessarily a convictable crime? No.

From that point on, the evidence doesn't suggest beyond a reasonable doubt what happened. What exactly do people think? Zimmerman walked up and said, "Whatchyu doin' here, boy?" and then shot him? I mean seriously.

The more likely scenario based on the evidence is that Martin started to feel threatened when he noticed Zimmerman following him. Rather than just hurry home and end the ordeal, he decided to confront Zimmerman. The two got into a fight [[there's no evidence to suggest who started the fight) with Martin gaining the upper hand. Witness testimony suggests Martin was straddling Zimmerman and bashing his head into the ground. And in light of this, it's almost certainly Zimmerman screaming for help on the 911 call, and not Martin. [[Again there's not enough evidence to prove one way or the other).

Assuming that's a possible and somewhat probable way the situation turned out, how can one possibly argue that the jury should have convicted Zimmerman of murder? If someone is holding you down, pummeling you, you're screaming for help to no avail, what would you do?

**Zacha341** · July-15-13, 09:38 AM

Just to weigh in here a bit, IMO any protests in Detroit will probably include at least 'someone' wearing a t-shirt, a family member hoisting placard or sign etc. relative to their 'own' traumatic touch point with crime and violence.

I don't think that's mere comparison. Crime here is too high with too many youth involved for that not too happen! Recall a few Detroiter's spoke out about their own looses to crime at the original protest re. the Martin shooting when it first happened... that 'change of subject' as some may judge will not stop.

It's rare that protests are fully 100% to the subject at hand.

I am looking for the link. Will add to this comment soon as I find it.

**SAMPLE LINK FOUND**:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1381354.html

From article [[Detroit Trayvon Martin rally - March 27, 2012):

The Detroit demonstration addressed not only Martin's death, but also the rash of recent killings of young people in the city, including the gunfire-related deaths of 12-year-old Kade'jah Davis and 9-month-old Delric Miller .

"So many kids have died in Detroit in the last few months it's not even believable," said Detroiter Brianna Parker, 23. "I hope by coming down today to protest the death of a teenager, it's going to help bring awareness to people around the country."

Detroiter Joslyn Smith, 57, a retired principal, attended the demonstration with her husband William and her two grandsons. "This death is not unique," she said, speaking of Martin."This happens all the time. It's time to stand for justice, not just in Martin's death, but in all the deaths of young black males going on."

Originally Posted by noise

This is such a dishonest and disgusting approach. Yeah, just change the subject. Don't address the topic at hand. Never take a stance on anything because there's always another issue worth comparing.

SYG should have applied to Trayvon when he was stalked and harassed by Zimmerman. His attack was justified, not Zimmerman's, who wrongly initiated the situation.

**Zacha341** · July-15-13, 09:44 AM

http://videos.mlive.com/mlive/2013/0...in_detroi.html

Originally Posted by guito13

So how did this turn out?

**guito13** · July-15-13, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by noise

This is such a dishonest and disgusting approach. Yeah, just change the subject. Don't address the topic at hand. Never take a stance on anything because there's always another issue worth comparing.

SYG should have applied to Trayvon when he was stalked and harassed by Zimmerman. His attack was justified, not Zimmerman's, who wrongly initiated the situation.

So, you are saying that he "stalked and harassed" him? Someone who is following someone else from a distance [[This was confirmed as he was on the phone during this time) is now considered stalking and harassing? You are saying that if someone is following you gives you the right to "throw the first punch"? Then you are also saying that the other person deserves to be beaten to death, with no right to use means to defend themselves?

**noise** · July-15-13, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by guito13

So, you are saying that he "stalked and harassed" him? Someone who is following someone else from a distance [[This was confirmed as he was on the phone during this time) is now considered stalking and harassing? You are saying that if someone is following you gives you the right to "throw the first punch"? Then you are also saying that the other person deserves to be beaten to death, with no right to use means to defend themselves?

I'm saying we have no idea of potential ill will or perception.

I'm also saying we have no idea whether or not any person was being beaten to death [[but we do know it never got close to that).

I'm saying Zimmerman initiated the problem by targeting an innocent minor.

**Detroitnerd** · July-15-13, 09:53 AM

Court cases are decided on testimony, evidence and often focus on narrow questions of law. I don't know about you all, but I'd rather have a justice system that is free of public pressure, if only for my own safety in the end. It's easy to whip up public passions that cry for blood, but the courtroom is mostly immune to them. That's a good thing, by the way.

**guito13** · July-15-13, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by noise

I'm saying we have no idea of potential ill will or perception.

I'm also saying we have no idea whether or not any person was being beaten to death [[but we do know it never got close to that).

I'm saying Zimmerman initiated the problem by targeting an innocent minor.

I think we have a pretty good idea of "Ill will" when a person is beating on another person.

We know that GZ's nose was broken and he had cuts to the back of his head at the time that he fired a shot. A broken nose bleeding down your throat while being held down can definitely cause someone to begin to choke. I think it is reasonable to think that if someone is doing that to me and not stopping that my life is in danger.

If you saw a suspicious person in your neighborhood, looking into houses, you wouldn't call the police or investigate [[ from afar )? I am not saying he made the brightest choice by following him but that is NOT a crime in itself yet you are making it sound like it is.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-15-13, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I can live with that position. My issue is with a law that allows deadly force based on one's subjective experience and makes not demand to de-escalate potential conflict as a first choice.

There's a reason why we have rules of engagement in military conflict; all it takes is one misunderstanding and two countries can be at war. The worst thing is that you can now have two people arguing with each other claiming that they both turned to deadly force because they both feared for their life...knowing that the legal system will always favor the survivor against the deceased, we are now providing incentive to be the first to shoot and with the biggest gun.

I don't see this as a moral or legal positive in any way.

yes, little about this situation seems morally nor legally positive.

Certainly having everyone turn to lethal force and explaining it away with 'fear for their life' is bad. But it begs the question of what is appropriate when you are being physically assaulted. What are you allowed to do?

Let's assume that Martin ends up being pinned to the ground with Zimmerman pounding Martin's head into the ground. Can Martin grab Zimmerman's gun and shoot Zimmerman? And if not, what can he do if the aggressor won't stop the violence?

**noise** · July-15-13, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by guito13

I think we have a pretty good idea of "Ill will" when a person is beating on another person.

We know that GZ's nose was broken and he had cuts to the back of his head at the time that he fired a shot. A broken nose bleeding down your throat while being held down can definitely cause someone to begin to choke. I think it is reasonable to think that if someone is doing that to me and not stopping that my life is in danger.

If you saw a suspicious person in your neighborhood, looking into houses, you wouldn't call the police or investigate [[ from afar )? I am not saying he made the brightest choice by following him but that is NOT a crime in itself yet you are making it sound like it is.

And that ill will may be justified, especially since we can only assume Zimmerman's ill will towards Martin.

A broken nose is very minor. A very bad benchmark for life endangerment.

I wouldn't freak out by seeing a black person in my neighborhood holding a beverage, no. I'm not talking about crime. I'm talking about right & wrong.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-15-13, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by noise

And that ill will may be justified, especially since we can only assume Zimmerman's ill will towards Martin.

A broken nose is very minor. A very bad benchmark for life endangerment.

I wouldn't freak out by seeing a black person in my neighborhood holding a beverage, no. I'm not talking about crime. I'm talking about right & wrong.

Its very easy to say that. If Zimmerman were dead on the pavement, would it be a bad benchmark? If Martin killed Zimmerman against the pavement would you let Martin walk? I would.