Ilitch Development Plans?

**Novine** · July-12-13, 05:41 AM

For your morning entertainment, the Detroit News attempts to pump up the Ilitch's track record of amassing properties for the purpose of...well, no one seems to know, not even the Ilitches. Extra laughs from the discussion of the Ilitch's track record of historic preservation.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

**stinkytofu** · July-12-13, 07:52 AM

That article was pointless. Rambling and no clear purpose. Did they ever pay those back taxes back?

**emu steve** · July-12-13, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

That article was pointless. Rambling and no clear purpose. Did they ever pay those back taxes back?

Agree the article did not break any new ground or information.

It did mention that Ilitch's organization would not own the arena [[I believe Gistok is fond of saying that stadiums and arenas are not owned by individuals or corporations because of what the real estate taxes would be. Hence, they are owned by a governmental unit).

**casscorridor** · July-12-13, 09:11 AM

There’s no specific answer” on how many of the buildings will be destroyed for the arena, said Robert Rossbach, a spokesman for the city’s Detroit Development Authority, the agency which will own the arena

Prepare and expect for more of the same [[i.e. Comerica Park).

What makes any of you think Ilitch will do anything but build his arena with public money and then sit on all the empty lots and buildings he owns. He has no record of developing anything beside the Fox [[in 1988, wow... like, can we stop talking about this now?). He is not a developer. He is a Pizza tycoon and sports franchise owner.

Don't expect the DDA to do anything either. They have a horrible track record of historic preservation. It is like the whole world is Detroit and they have never seen how a real city functions.

**stinkytofu** · July-12-13, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Prepare and expect for more of the same [[i.e. Comerica Park).

What makes any of you think Ilitch will do anything but build his arena with public money and then sit on all the empty lots and buildings he owns. He has no record of developing anything beside the Fox [[in 1988, wow... like, can we stop talking about this now?). He is not a developer. He is a Pizza tycoon and sports franchise owner.

Don't expect the DDA to do anything either. They have a horrible track record of historic preservation. It is like the whole world is Detroit and they have never seen how a real city functions.

Sadly, I'm in complete agreement. I would, however, love to be proven wrong.

**Detroitnerd** · July-12-13, 09:46 AM

Welcome to Biff's Pleasure Paradise

**rb336** · July-12-13, 09:58 AM

Sitting on empty buildings doesn't make money. The Ilitch hate on this forum is utterly absurd

**Novine** · July-12-13, 10:11 AM

"Sitting on empty buildings doesn't make money. The Ilitch hate on this forum is utterly absurd"

Sure it does. Look how much in public subsidies that Ilitch has been able to take in by amassing vacant properties and abandoned buildings and dangling out the prospect of renovation. When the building becomes too much of a hassle to maintain, they get public dollars to demo it.

**Eber Brock Ward** · July-12-13, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

Sitting on empty buildings doesn't make money. The Ilitch hate on this forum is utterly absurd

but pressuring the preservation gatekeepers to turn them into profitable surface lots does pay. handsomely, and with little property tax, no less.

and he's applied that pressure many times, and has many surface lots. he's just ralph sachs with more money, and a guy who saved the fox 25[[!) years ago. shitty legacy to leave, but some people don't care about legacy.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-12-13, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

That article was pointless. Rambling and no clear purpose. Did they ever pay those back taxes back?

AFAIK, it was only an allegation of back taxes that should have been paid for something in dispute. Geez people -- just because some city official screams that Ilitch owes taxes for something doesn't make it true -- even if you hate the family.

**mikeg19** · July-12-13, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

Sitting on empty buildings doesn't make money. The Ilitch hate on this forum is utterly absurd

While I agree that this article literally shed no new insight into this matter, it's also amazing to see the "Ilitch hate" on here. He doesn't have the best track record on development in the city, but I'm not gonna blast a guy who wants to dump a gigantic amount of money into the city, again, [[yes, I know public tax dollars are being used) until I see the end result.

Dan Gilbert may have made the Ilitch's look like slumloards, but if this plan comes to fruition, it's gonna be a game changer.

**southen** · July-12-13, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

Sitting on empty buildings doesn't make money. The Ilitch hate on this forum is utterly absurd

absurd is right! i love a guy with a personal wealth of over 1 billion who can afford to toss ridiculous money at athletes but cant mothball or redevelop buildings he owns that he bought at bargain prices. throw in all of the lies over the years with the subsidies he gets and he might be my all time favorite person.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-12-13, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Agree the article did not break any new ground or information.

It did mention that Ilitch's organization would not own the arena [[I believe Gistok is fond of saying that stadiums and arenas are not owned by individuals or corporations because of what the real estate taxes would be. Hence, they are owned by a governmental unit).

Gistok is right here. Its quite obvious, isn't it. And it is what you would expect in a cit where property tax rates are unreasonable. Do what you can to shed those costs.

I don't see why Ilitch should want to pay more in taxes than he owes. Apple pays little tax -- because they're taking advantage of a 30-year old law that encourages development in Ireland. Who's the fool? Apple. or the US government that decided to manipulate the market years ago.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · July-12-13, 01:29 PM

From the article:
“The Ilitches have done some beautiful things,” said Melanie Markowicz, president of the board of directors for Preservation Detroit, an advocacy group for urban issues. Mike and Marian spent more than $12 million when they relocated their headquarters to the ornate Fox Theatre, after buyng the building in 1988.
“I really hope they do their best to revive some the beautiful buildings they own, because I think the new district could be a national model for a development that revitalizes an area and respects the city’s past,” Markowicz said." Hope springs eternal! Just ask Charlie Brown the next time Lucy holds the football.

**401don** · July-12-13, 01:35 PM

The other major reason for not owning is the city is on the hook for the demo costs when it's time to move on - see Tiger Stadium and now Joe Louis.

**Novine** · July-12-13, 01:50 PM

"Dan Gilbert may have made the Ilitch's look like slumloards, but if this plan comes to fruition, it's gonna be a game changer."

Really? How? One arena gets abandoned and a new one gets built to replace it. Other than that, no one other than the Ilitch cheerleaders believe he's going to do anything more that that. As he controls most of the land around the arena, the spin-off effect will be limited to his parking lots.

**mikeg19** · July-12-13, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Really? How? One arena gets abandoned and a new one gets built to replace it. Other than that, no one other than the Ilitch cheerleaders believe he's going to do anything more that that. As he controls most of the land around the arena, the spin-off effect will be limited to his parking lots.

So it's ok if someone else invests $200 million in downtown as long as it's not on property they already own? That's pretty shortsighted don't you think? Any investment in downtown regardless of where it's at is good news. What's it matter if the development is in the Foxtown area? I'm trying to have a little faith, not just bitch and moan about everything that Ilitch does. I'm not trying to claim I know more about development and downtown politics then people on this board, because I don't. But I'm not going to nitpick about what someone does with their money just because I don't agree with their vision.

And as far as the Joe being empty, I highly doubt that it will be there long. It'll be renovated into COBO, demolished, or re purposed somehow. That land is too valuable to sit there and be nothing. Yes, I know the city is completely inept, the DDA is ran by idiots, and George Jackson can't close a deal to save his life, but all those things aside, that land will be used sooner tha nlater I'd imagine.

**southen** · July-12-13, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I'm not going to nitpick about what someone does with their money just because I don't agree with their vision.

vision? accumulating properties and doing nothing with them and allowing many to further deteriorate for years is not vision. it's called being a slumlord.

**401don** · July-12-13, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

So it's ok if someone else invests $200 million in downtown as long as it's not on property they already own? That's pretty shortsighted don't you think? Any investment in downtown regardless of where it's at is good news. What's it matter if the development is in the Foxtown area? I'm trying to have a little faith, not just bitch and moan about everything that Ilitch does. I'm not trying to claim I know more about development and downtown politics then people on this board, because I don't. But I'm not going to nitpick about what someone does with their money just because I don't agree with their vision.

And as far as the Joe being empty, I highly doubt that it will be there long. It'll be renovated into COBO, demolished, or re purposed somehow. That land is too valuable to sit there and be nothing. Yes, I know the city is completely inept, the DDA is ran by idiots, and George Jackson can't close a deal to save his life, but all those things aside, that land will be used sooner tha nlater I'd imagine.

I keep hearing how the Joe land is so valuable. Why? It's stuck between Cobo and the Riverfront Apts. and totally devoid of anything other than the river. We can't even get one Condo development off the ground on the far more attractive east riverfront. As far as expanding Cobo, all the research suggested the 25,000 extra square feet plus lower level expansion would satisfy the auto show and there were no other large shows on the horizon that might require the full floor space. If they really thought increasing Cobo was necessary they would have demolished the Cobo Arena space and used it with the current reno.

**stasu1213** · July-13-13, 08:13 AM

Dan Gilbert uses his own money to develop buildings and parks; Illitch uses taxpayers dollars to develop his parks and buildings. He ha sat on buildings for years which had contributed to the decay of downtown and parts of Woodward. The United Artist building still sits unrenovated. I don't see the city giving him a hard time. Gilbert has to go through a lot of red tape just to get retail into downtown Detroit

**Spartan** · July-13-13, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Dan Gilbert uses his own money to develop buildings and parks; Illitch uses taxpayers dollars to develop his parks and buildings. He ha sat on buildings for years which had contributed to the decay of downtown and parts of Woodward. The United Artist building still sits unrenovated. I don't see the city giving him a hard time. Gilbert has to go through a lot of red tape just to get retail into downtown Detroit

I'm pretty sure Gilbert is getting plenty of tax incentives to develop

**esp1986** · July-13-13, 10:55 AM

They both get taxpayer dollars.

Gilbert is getting some state incentives for relocating downtown, as well as federal historic preservation credits [[where applicable).

Ilitch gets whatever he can. Makes promises, then delivers if he wants to [[see: Detroit Life Building).

The difference between the two: Gilbert is willing to take a calculated risk. Gilbert is leveraging his contacts to coerce them to relocate, and redevelop the buildings when he can. Ilitch is unwilling to take a risk unless taxpayers are picking up the tab. Period.

**downtownguy** · July-13-13, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by esp1986

Ilitch gets whatever he can. Makes promises, then delivers if he wants to [[see: Detroit Life Building).

What's there to see?

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · July-13-13, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan

I'm pretty sure Gilbert is getting plenty of tax incentives to develop

I'm sure he is also, but in addition to a lot of his own money. But he also quickly moves to improve his buildings, and has rapidly filled them up with thousands of workers. Pizza man, on the other hand, renovated the Fox about 25 years ago and put his own workers in the building. Since then, its been mostly acquire and let things decay.

**Novine** · July-14-13, 02:41 PM

Would sure like to see a comparison between what Ilitch has done since the Fox Theater renovation and what Gilbert has done since he's started investing in Detroit. I know who I think has had more of a positive impact on downtown.