Do people regret the 1967 riot?

[Danny]

Detroit was in the bid in 1961 for the 1968 Olympics. It was a progressive city only on the surface. It was deteriotating financially underneath since the 1950s to the period of the 1967 riot

It's not just the 67 riot that Detroit lost the Olympics to Mexico City, Detroit city gov't, its regional corporate business in Downtown, Wayne County gov't and Michigan Legislature couldn't agree on the food provisions for the athletes. That send a wrong message to the IOC and Mexico won.

[CassTechGrad]

In 1967 the police bust a “blind pig”, some people use this as an excuse to riot, and yada, yada,yada, [[like in the Seinfeld episode), this picture shows what happen to the city since then.

[piczka]

To answer the original question, yes I regret the riot but am only speaking for myself. I hope as a city we learned something.

[MidTownMs]

To answer the original question, yes I regret the riot but am only speaking for myself. I hope as a city we learned something.

What did you learn?

[48009]

It was a progressive city only on the surface. It was deteriotating financially underneath since the 1950s to the period of the 1967 riot

Please expand on this.

[48009]

When somebody would rather derail the discussion by questioning the bona fides of somebody discussing it, you can be pretty darn sure that person has hit upon something right.

Nobody is derailing anything. You questioned the expertise of someone at the VERY top of his field, very real credentials. So, what exactly are your credentials? What makes you such an expert? Do have a degree? A masters? A PhD? Teach history at a local college? Been published? I don't know any scholars who shy away from that question or treat it like an insult. But I do know people who lack diplomas or other credentials that get uncomfortable when this topic comes up.

[p69rrh51]

Nobody is derailing anything. You questioned the expertise of someone at the VERY top of his field, very real credentials. So, what exactly are your credentials? What makes you such an expert? Do have a degree? A masters? A PhD? Teach history at a local college? Been published? I don't know any scholars who shy away from that question or treat it like an insult. But I do know people who lack diplomas or other credentials that get uncomfortable when this topic comes up.

48009 some of the biggest "idiots" I know have tons of degrees. The field I am in the best do not have a degree. As the saying goes those who can do, those who can't teach! You sight morons who do not have any practical experience as the experts. Time to go crawl back under the rock you mistakenly left, as you do not have a clue about this subject.

[48009]

48009 some of the biggest "idiots" I know have tons of degrees. The field I am in the best do not have a degree. As the saying goes those who can do, those who can't teach! You sight morons who do not have any practical experience as the experts. Time to go crawl back under the rock you mistakenly left, as you do not have a clue about this subject.

Cite*

A senior fellow at Stanford, author of 30 books, Harvard University [[B.A.) 1958, Columbia University [[M.A.) 1959 & University of Chicago [[Ph.D.) 1969 makes him a moron? Nothing sadder than internet scholars with phantom and unquantifiable expertise challenging an economics and social theory expert. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

[piczka]

Don't shit where you eat.

[p69rrh51]

Cite*

A senior fellow at Stanford, author of 30 books, Harvard University [[B.A.) 1958, Columbia University [[M.A.) 1959 & University of Chicago [[Ph.D.) 1969 makes him a moron? Nothing sadder than internet scholars with phantom and unquantifiable expertise challenging an economics and social theory expert. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

My family is littered with Phd's including my great uncle who for his doctorate worked out the atomic weight of Lithium[[UofM undergrad-UofM masters Harvard Phd 1908-I also have his Los Alamos ID card from WWII). I am well versed with those who have no practical knowledge.
As for knowledge I challenge you on your expertise of this city any time anywhere, but then you are one of those clueless internet morons who hide behind their anonymity.

[MidTownMs]

My family is littered with Phd's including my great uncle who for his doctorate worked out the atomic weight of Lithium[[UofM undergrad-UofM masters Harvard Phd 1908-I also have his Los Alamos ID card from WWII). I am well versed with those who have no practical knowledge.
As for knowledge I challenge you on your expertise of this city any time anywhere, but then you are one of those clueless internet morons who hide behind their anonymity.

So if you believe what you said in a previous post:

48009 some of the biggest "idiots" I know have tons of degrees."

Then your family must be "littered" with idiots.

[p69rrh51]

So if you believe what you said in a previous:

48009 some of the biggest "idiots" I know have tons of degrees."

Then your family must be "littered" with idiots.

That could be true!

[Smirnoff]

The people & businesses regret the elimination of STRESS.....great move by CAY back then, just look at the results from that strategic decision. Ask youself - who in their right mind doesn't want safe neighborhoods, duh

[Newdetroit]

Extensive footage of the riots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlQRfIzI4FA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrFoNG-X8F8

[Jimaz]

Extensive footage of the riots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlQRfIzI4FA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrFoNG-X8F8

Thanks for posting those videos. Most of that I hadn't seen before.

At 5:40 in the first video Governor George Romney mentions a state of emergency in three cities. What two cities besides Detroit were these? Anyone?

[Lily]

In 1967 the police bust a “blind pig”, some people use this as an excuse to riot, and yada, yada,yada, [[like in the Seinfeld episode), this picture shows what happen to the city since then.

Many people regret the outcome, whether it started because of the busting of a blind pig or any other reason offered. My in-laws were burned out of their business. Their livelyhood, their only way to support themselves and their teenaged boys. Burned to the ground, nothing left. Forced out. The 67 riots had a huge effect on many folks, white, black, baptist, Jewish.

lily

[sumas]

Welcome to the forum Lily.

[PeachLaser]

As a senior in college studying international relations in 1973, we studied different events in recent history as case studies from a psychological point of view of the participants in a course entitled, "The Politics of Violence". Why did people do things in certain situations?

The Detroit Riots of '67 were one of our case studies. It was acknowledged that racism, friction between the police and populace and the age-old problems of haves and have-nots were present just as they were in many places. But, why were the '67 Riots so explosive and so destructive?

The primary theory offered was 'frustration' and the difference between expectations and reality. Central in this frustration-causing environment was the assembly line. As the theory goes, it was stated that many of the populace worked on the assembly lines which were often dirty, high-pressure to produce and extremely monotonous. People did the same thing over and over again without ever seeing the completed results of their work and had no input into the process of creation except for their one repetitive task. People like to create things [['creativity is akin to godliness') but when there was no direct connection to a completed product and people were only animated tools, then a huge amount of frustration was created. As the theory goes, unvented frustration and disconnection from the final completed product of their labors causes violence. This theory stated that there was a huge amount of frustration existing in many people and it only needed a spark to set it off and it occurred.

I've often wondered how those of you who have worked in the assembly line environment then and now, think this theory has any validity? And, has the assembly line of the 40's, 50's and 60's changed today?

I think this is similar to what happened within the Postal Service where employees were pushed and pushed without outlets for venting frustration and the term 'Going Postal' occurred with all the violent results.

Do those of you who worked in these environments then and now think this 'unvented frustration begetting violence' was a cause and has the working environment changed today? Are there more efforts to allow workers today to become part of the entire process and allow them to have input and allow them to feel more part of the 'creative' process in producing products?

[MidTownMs]

As a senior in college studying international relations in 1973, we studied different events in recent history as case studies from a psychological point of view of the participants in a course entitled, "The Politics of Violence". Why did people do things in certain situations?

The Detroit Riots of '67 were one of our case studies. It was acknowledged that racism, friction between the police and populace and the age-old problems of haves and have-nots were present just as they were in many places. But, why were the '67 Riots so explosive and so destructive?

The primary theory offered was 'frustration' and the difference between expectations and reality. Central in this frustration-causing environment was the assembly line. As the theory goes, it was stated that many of the populace worked on the assembly lines which were often dirty, high-pressure to produce and extremely monotonous. People did the same thing over and over again without ever seeing the completed results of their work and had no input into the process of creation except for their one repetitive task. People like to create things [['creativity is akin to godliness') but when there was no direct connection to a completed product and people were only animated tools, then a huge amount of frustration was created. As the theory goes, unvented frustration and disconnection from the final completed product of their labors causes violence. This theory stated that there was a huge amount of frustration existing in many people and it only needed a spark to set it off and it occurred.

I've often wondered how those of you who have worked in the assembly line environment then and now, think this theory has any validity? And, has the assembly line of the 40's, 50's and 60's changed today?

I think this is similar to what happened within the Postal Service where employees were pushed and pushed without outlets for venting frustration and the term 'Going Postal' occurred with all the violent results.

Do those of you who worked in these environments then and now think this 'unvented frustration begetting violence' was a cause and has the working environment changed today? Are there more efforts to allow workers today to become part of the entire process and allow them to have input and allow them to feel more part of the 'creative' process in producing products?

I come from a long line of assembly line and postal workers beginning with both of my grandfathers who moved to Detroit in 1920 to work at Ford Motor Co. When World War II ended several of my relatives got jobs at the post office. My family members were proud of their jobs because they were able to provide a good life for their families. The "frustration" you describe came later when the automobile industry became unstable, not because the workers did not feel like they were part of the creative process. For people were not "educated" they were considered good jobs as opposed to sharecropping which many people did in the south before they came here. As a result they were able to educate their children so that they would not have to work on assembly lines and deliver mail every day. I think you would be hard pressed to find among the looters in '67 an assembly line or postal worker. I think you, or whoever else put this theory together, are making assumptions based on your own feelings about people who work in these "environments." Have you actually talked to an assembly line or a postal worker? Or is your theory, like many theories, based on assumptions, person feelings, and hearsay? PS...My family members who worked on assembly lines felt as much a part of the creative process as the people who designed cars.

[LeannaM]

From an outsider's perspective, Detroit's decline was probably made worse by the riot. Most cities had some white flight, but not like Detroit. I have to wonder if the decline would have been slower had the riot not occurred. Detroit had other factors of course [[like the auto industry declining), but I think the riot really put a bad image of Detroit in people's minds, a worse image than most other cities have.

I don't know if the rioting was justified or not. I wasn't there and it was long before I was born. Obviously the results have been devastating. Probably like any riot, there were some who were justifiably angry and some who just wanted an excuse to loot and break things.

[oladub]

Do people regret the 1967 riot?

The riot was a tragedy for Detroit. I lost my job at Greyhound because of the riot after having to drive daily through the riot to get to work. Before I go further, some of the looters were white. I met one. He said that he and other whites looted with him because in his words, "We weren't going to let [[them) get it all." The riot wasn't just a response to a raid on a speakeasy. That said, the rioters were dum as rocks for burning down their local groceries and other stores and driving away jobs. I expect adult humans to refrain from fouling their nests. No, I don't regret the riots because I was a victim rather than a participant. I can't regret the actions of others any more than I can regret the weather because I can't control either.

[PeachLaser]

I come from a long line of assembly line and postal workers beginning with both of my grandfathers who moved to Detroit in 1920 to work at Ford Motor Co.... I think you, or whoever else put this theory together, are making assumptions based on your own feelings about people who work in these "environments." Have you actually talked to an assembly line or a postal worker? Or is your theory, like many theories, based on assumptions, person feelings, and hearsay?

Hi MTM, no, this is not my theory but one that was presented to me by a highly-respected professor during my studies. I presented this theory here in a fashion that I am asking those who used to work on the lines and now work on the lines for their comments to either support or disprove this theory. Your comments are duly noted. But, I might point out that your comments are also hearsay.

I have seen threads on DYS talking about the realities of working on the lines and some of them sounded like it was a hellish position, at times. So, while I have not talked to these people directly, I have read their many comments.

Things have changed and I wonder how dramatically? Like you, many of my family moved from the farms of the South to work in the Ford plants. They are all gone now so I can not ask them. My grandfather was actually killed in a 1939 Ford Roadster as it was being taken from the factory back to a dealership in the South after he had visited his kids that all worked in the plants.

I also wish I could ask my Father why he chose to leave Detroit in 1952? I have my theories but nothing concrete.

[MidTownMs]

[QUOTE=PeachLaser;394804]Hi MTM, no, this is not my theory but one that was presented to me by a highly-respected professor during my studies. I presented this theory here in a fashion that I am asking those who used to work on the lines and now work on the lines for their comments to either support or disprove this theory. Your comments are duly noted. But, I might point out that your comments are also hearsay.

I have seen threads on DYS talking about the realities of working on the lines and some of them sounded like it was a hellish position, at times. So, while I have not talked to these people directly, I have read their many comments.

Things have changed and I wonder how dramatically? Like you, many of my family moved from the farms of the South to work in the Ford plants. They are all gone now so I can not ask them. My grandfather was actually killed in a 1939 Ford Roadster as it was being taken from the factory back to a dealership in the South after he had visited his kids that all worked in the plants.

I also wish I could ask my Father why he chose to leave Detroit in 1952? I have my theories but nothing concrete.[/

Actually my comments are not hearsay they came directly from my family members who worked over 30 years in the plant. You say you have not talked to anyone who worked in an auto plant. Do you know if your highly respected professor ever visited a plant or talked to anyone who worked in one? A lot of people use this forum for their research projects. Maybe instead of picking our brains for information you should go out and meet and talk to some of the people you are researching. IMO that theory needs work.

[PeachLaser]

[/Actually my comments are not hearsay they came directly from my family members who worked over 30 years in the plant. You say you have not talked to anyone who worked in an auto plant. Do you know if your highly respected professor ever visited a plant or talked to anyone who worked in one? A lot of people use this forum for their research projects. Maybe instead of picking our brains for information you should go out and meet and talk to some of the people you are researching. IMO that theory needs work.

MidTownMs, thank you, I respect your comments and opinions. Actually, I attempt to do my own research whenever possible. Several months ago, I was in Detroit and wanted to see the old Highland Park Memorial Hospital. My family had said that I was crazy to go into Detroit and Highland Park but I did it anyway. I had to see for myself. Wound through the neighborhoods of Highland Park until I saw it for myself. Have you been up to that corner of HP lately?

I heard many stories from my father who worked at Willow Run and then later Dodge Main, so, yes, I have heard many stories but never asked questions as a researcher. In contrast, talked with my nephew who worked on robots in a Ford supplier in the 'burbs so missed direct talks with people working during the time period of the '67 riots. My family left New Center in '52 so we were on the leading edge of the exodus from Detroit. That's a fact. I just don't know why.

With all due respect to you and your comments, a judge would still consider your comments hearsay because you did not actually work in the plants yourself and you are repeating the stories of others. I respect your comments and they have weight in my personal assessment of the validity of the theory. Not enough weight to disprove, but recognized as a dissenting opinion.

[Lily]

Thanks, am more of a reader here than a talker, but every once in awhile.......

lily