Do people regret the 1967 riot?

[MidTownMs]

What is the OP's definition of a race riot? I was 19 years old when the riot broke out and what I witnessed in my neighborhood was looting and burning. Perhaps the 1943 riot was about racial unrest but the riot of 67 appeared to have more to do with angry fed up people than race.

[Detroitnerd]

I've heard the 1967 disturbance described as "the have-nots" giving "the haves" some trouble. And describing white and black people working together -- to remove couches from Robinson's Furniture. :/

[Smirnoff]

I am still waiting for the National Guard to return.....[[help)!

[p69rrh51]

I am still waiting for the National Guard to return.....[[help)!

Smirnoff there is a video on here that shows the National Guard and the 82nd Airborne. The NG looks like a bunch of scared small animals. the 82nd on the other hand looked very professional and ready for action. Its well worth searching the sight for the video.

[48009]

Wikipedia is ... ahem ... less than scholarly, what with all kinds of folks with serious ideological biases "editing" the history of major events.

For your information: The 1943 riot was not small; it was the largest race riot in the United States during a summer full of race riots from Texas to L.A.

The 1967 riot did not "destroy ... much of the city."

The other poster was right: You're reading the wrong Thomas. If you want to understand the history of Detroit, read Thomas Sugrue.

If you really know that little about Detroit's history, maybe you should do some thread searches and use the board to read up on the things you're curious about. There are several very long threads about 1967.

For more information about 1967, visit your local library. Reading is fundamental.

Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't make them wrong. "Less than scholarly"? He grew up in Harlem, went to the marines and then:

Harvard University [[B.A.) 1958
Columbia University [[M.A.) 1959
University of Chicago [[Ph.D.) 1969

How do your educational and professional accomplishments measure up to Dr. Sowell's?

[Honky Tonk]

Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't make them wrong. "Less than scholarly"? He grew up in Harlem, went to the marines and then:

Harvard University [[B.A.) 1958
Columbia University [[M.A.) 1959
University of Chicago [[Ph.D.) 1969

How do your education and professional accomplishments measure up to Dr. Sowells?

MUCH better, I'm sure.

[48009]

I've heard the 1967 disturbance described as "the have-nots" giving "the haves" some trouble. And describing white and black people working together -- to remove couches from Robinson's Furniture. :/

Working together? I asked a large group of mostly white baby boomers last night about the riots. These are the most kind people I know, have dear friends of every race and background, etc. The general consensus was that Detroit had it's good and bad pockets prior the '67 riots, but they still lived or visited the city, especially for nightlife. After '67 riots they stopped going to the city, period. It was no longer safe. "You could see it burning from Troy."

[Wesley Mouch]

For African Americans, apparently the home ownership, pay and education rates were the highest in the country. But somehow, Detroit was the worst riot. Doesn't seem very justified.

Two thoughts:

1) Reactions to injustice aren't rational.

2) Radicals often act when progress doesn't go their way, or fast enough.

60s were a time when 'bringing down the system' was thought to be a noble cause. The results weren't always good.

One might wonder about the world where MLK drove change more than Malcolm X.

[Detroitnerd]

Working together? I asked a large group of mostly white baby boomers last night about the riots. These are the most kind people I know, have dear friends of every race and background, etc. The general consensus was that Detroit had it's good and bad pockets prior the '67 riots, but they still lived or visited the city, especially for nightlife. After '67 riots they stopped going to the city, period. It was no longer safe. "You could see it burning from Troy."

Oh, I see. You do "know" a lot about Detroit. Or you THINK you "know" a lot about Detroit. And you really don't seem to exhibit [[a) an open mind or [[b) any genuine curiosity. So I guess I was right about you all along. You aren't here to ask questions and learn about the past. You are here to share your [[largely mythological, anecdotal) version about the past. And you don't appreciate it being challenged, do you?

That's right: You're trolling.

[SWMAP]

DN - you are the worst troller. You jump into every conversation and sarcastically attack, make snide, cutting evaluations on nearly every single topic. I dread seeing you get into anything. You are just the worst.

Have you ever been published in anything but the Metro Times? From what do you assume your authority and pedigree to make nearly every topic here about your vast stores of knowledge, your better understanding of history and your pontifical seal which you must grant to nearly all threads of any seriousness?

Please fill us in on your prestigious academic background

[Eber Brock Ward]

To be fair, and while I generally agree with him, Sugrue's work should not be treated like the Bible, as so many planners and planners-at-heart around here do.

It's more of an advocacy piece, where he starts with a thesis and then builds a case for it with data supporting his position, than a piece where he lays out all of the data and then subsequently draws a conclusion.

[Detroitnerd]

DN - you are the worst troller. You jump into every conversation and sarcastically attack, make snide, cutting evaluations on nearly every single topic. I dread seeing you get into anything. You are just the worst.

Have you ever been published in anything but the Metro Times? From what do you assume your authority and pedigree to make nearly every topic here about your vast stores of knowledge, your better understanding of history and your pontifical seal which you must grant to nearly all threads of any seriousness?

Please fill us in on your prestigious academic background

Nice rant, SWMAP. Nice to know I've made an impression on you.

[48009]

Nice rant, SWMAP. Nice to know I've made an impression on you.

So since you didn't answer his question, what year did you drop out of Wayne St?

[Detroitnerd]

So since you didn't answer his question, what year did you drop out of Wayne St?

Now that's some quality trolling, 48009. Nice to see you stick to the topic and avoid personal attacks.

[48009]

Not trolling. You are the one who questioned an EXPERT, who has the highest credentials anyone in his field can earn. So it begs the question, what exactly are your credentials? In my experience, the only people who shy away from their educational background are those that never earned a diploma.

[Detroitnerd]

Not trolling. You are the one who questioned an EXPERT, who has the highest credentials anyone in his field can earn. So it begs the question, what exactly are your credentials? In my experience, the only people who shy away from their educational background are those that never earned a diploma.

Thomas Sowell is a talented polemicist, a right-wing ideologue who marshals a few selective facts that happen to support his thesis and then makes a case for his ideology. I've read Thomas Sowell's columns for almost 30 years, so I think I know his biases pretty well. Maybe you don't. Maybe you do. But there's a lot more to Detroit's history than a few statistics assembled by an ideological ax-grinder.

Anyway, I know this game too well.

When somebody would rather derail the discussion by questioning the bona fides of somebody discussing it, you can be pretty darn sure that person has hit upon something right.

[Bagley]

This one comes under the heading of you had to be there! There were elements of the Michigan National Guard[[not a big deal) and the 82nd Airborne Division[[Very big deal) deployed during the riots. Enough said!

I'm not sure that the fact that the 82nd Airborne Division getting involved is as big a deal as you suggest given that a single black teenager walking around often requires a four to five squad car response. A riot involving a few hundred or a couple thousand people of color would absolutely be a national emergency and no one knew better the dire situation than the police who had run roughshod over the black community for decades.

[Bagley]

Also, that 7,200 arrests includes black people who so much as stepped onto their own porch to see what was happening. Many of whom were rounded up and taken to holding yards in their pajamas.

[Argonne18]

As I mention in my website [[www.detroits-great-rebellion.com), white flight
began after the '43 riot at a trickle pace but kicked in during the '50s &'60s when the interstates came in and provided the vehicle [[no pun intended) for people to work in the city and live in the fledgling suburbs.
Detroit was most definitely considered a progressive city under Cavanagh.
President Johnson considered Detroit 'the' Model City because so many blacks were middle class. Cavanagh also brought in a Michigan Supreme Court judge,
George Edwards, to take over the police department. Even his replacement, Ray Girardin, was considered very civil rights oriented.
Also, Detroit was the last big city to riot. Many believed Detroit would not
riot because Cavanagh had a handle on things.
The riot of 1967 was a rebellion against circumstances. If you were fortuanate enough to grow up middle class or better then it is going to be difficult to understand the frustration, anger and despair of growing up poor.

[Toka313]

According to economist Thomas Sowell:^[71]

Before the ghetto riot of 1967, Detroit's black population had the highest rate of home-ownership of any black urban population in the country, and their unemployment rate was just 3.4 percent. It was not despair that fueled the riot. It was the riot which marked the beginning of the decline of Detroit to its current state of despair. Detroit's population today is only half of what it once was, and its most productive people have been the ones who fled.

lol, Sowell is a chump though, really. The unemployment rate was low, yes, but the job discrimination was incredibly high. Union seniority rules screwed over the black population in the 60s. They ended up in the most dangerous jobs in the factories. Remember the James Johnson case.

[Toka313]

Not trolling. You are the one who questioned an EXPERT, who has the highest credentials anyone in his field can earn. So it begs the question, what exactly are your credentials? In my experience, the only people who shy away from their educational background are those that never earned a diploma.

Sugrue has the highest accolades in his field, and would wholeheartedly disagree with Sowell's analysis.

[Toka313]

Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't make them wrong. "Less than scholarly"? He grew up in Harlem, went to the marines and then:

Harvard University [[B.A.) 1958
Columbia University [[M.A.) 1959
University of Chicago [[Ph.D.) 1969

How do your educational and professional accomplishments measure up to Dr. Sowell's?

The "Chicago Gang" isn't the best pedigree. Ask David Harvey who actually does critical geography work.

[Danny]

What is the OP's definition of a race riot? I was 19 years old when the riot broke out and what I witnessed in my neighborhood was looting and burning. Perhaps the 1943 riot was about racial unrest but the riot of 67 appeared to have more to do with angry fed up people than race.

You're absolutely right and agreeable. The 1943 Detroit Riot was racial.

The 1967 Detroit was about against police brutality and civil unrest in ghettos. Just like another most populated cities in the U.S.

[Toka313]

You're absolutely right and agreeable. The 1943 Detroit Riot was racial.

The 1967 Detroit was about against police brutality and civil unrest in ghettos. Just like another most populated cities in the U.S.

Exactly. That's why '67 is called a "Rebellion" and '43 is called a riot.

[stasu1213]

Detroit was in the bid in 1961 for the 1968 Olympics. It was a progressive city only on the surface. It was deteriotating financially underneath since the 1950s to the period of the 1967 riot