Explain the Mike Duggan write in campaign for me.....please.

**douglasm** · July-07-13, 08:31 PM

OK, as I understand it, in June, the Michigan Court of Appeals ruled that Mike Duggan did NOT meet the residency requirements to run for mayor of Detroit, correct? And Mr. Duggan has NOT appealed that decision, right?

So I guess my question is what happens if he wins as a write in candidate? I'm not a lawyer, and I haven't looked at the city charter.....as a city councilman in a small Northwestern town I've got my own city charter to worry about......but it seems to me that there could be a major conflict if he is elected mayor.

Does anyone know what the charter says about holding the actual position of Mayor as opposed to filing for election? Granted the EFM is operating as the government in power, but we had a situation similar to this in a city near me that tied city government in knots, created potential litigation problems, and helped make a general mess of government operations for the 6 months it took to settle the issue.

**313WX** · July-07-13, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by douglasm

OK, as I understand it, in June, the Michigan Court of Appeals ruled that Mike Duggan did NOT meet the residency requirements to run for mayor of Detroit, correct? And Mr. Duggan has NOT appealed that decision, right?

So I guess my question is what happens if he wins as a write in candidate? I'm not a lawyer, and I haven't looked at the city charter.....as a city councilman in a small Northwestern town I've got my own city charter to worry about......but it seems to me that there could be a major conflict if he is elected mayor.

Does anyone know what the charter says about holding the actual position of Mayor as opposed to filing for election? Granted the EFM is operating as the government in power, but we had a situation similar to this in a city near me that tied city government in knots, created potential litigation problems, and helped make a general mess of government operations for the 6 months it took to settle the issue.

Another good question. We won't know until it all plays out. First and foremost [[as a couple of other posters have mentioned), the voters have to actually spell his name right and circle the oval next to his name. In a city where half of adult population is functionally illiterate, I wouldn't get too excited if I were Duggan.

**Novine** · July-07-13, 09:38 PM

The ruling was based on the time that Duggan filed. If he has waited a couple of weeks, he would have met the requirements. There's no question that he now meets the requirement filing as a write-in.

**7miledog** · July-07-13, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

?.., the voters have to actually spell his name right

That's not an accurate statement, legally. All you have to determine for a write in vote to count is the voter's intent. It is entirely possible for Duggan to come in second. My money's on Duggan.

**pkbroch** · July-07-13, 09:48 PM

Went to a Duggan, meet and greet in Palmer Woods, This evening.

A very nice mix of all citizens of Detroit who care about a Honest Mayor who can get things don The ballot was explained and how to mark the absentee ballot.

A nice event for AL who came.

**jtf1972** · July-07-13, 09:54 PM

Thanks for calling us stupid, 313WX.

Duggan running a write-in campaign is at worst a way to keep Barrow from somehow getting into a #2 position for the election... and being the most known candidate left if something should come of the FBI investigation into Benny's office.

Honestly, Barrow is running for the wrong office. He seems to have really busted his ass doing Winfrey's job. He should go for it for real!

**corktownyuppie** · July-07-13, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

The ruling was based on the time that Duggan filed. If he has waited a couple of weeks, he would have met the requirements. There's no question that he now meets the requirement filing as a write-in.

I agree with Novine's conclusion. I wish that the judges had been more explicit about saying it in very clear language. But yes, all of the court opinions rule Duggan out because he had filed too early. Filing to run as a write-in will be absolutely within the deadline.

The issue then is this:

- a) Duggan filed to early and dq'd himself from the primary.
- b) Duggan filed within the timeline for eligibility as a write-in.
- Does a) somehow negate b)? The law doesn't say that it does. But it also doesn't say that it doesn't. It also requires you to look at the Popke's first opinion and conclude that she overreached by stating that Duggan was dq'd in total and with no exceptions from the primary. Either that, or you make a strong argument that because the petitioner was suing on the basis of his filing to be on the ballot...then therefore, the court's holding is limited only to his eligibility to be printed on the ballot, not eligibility in total.

Again, I believe that the court's role is to be expansive rather than exclusive. If Duggan can get the necessary votes...and I'm not sure that he will...it would be a real ballsy move for the court to rule his ineligibility over the clear will of the people given the difficulty of a write-in campaign. Combine that with the fact that arguments regarding his ineligibility are only derived from him unintentionally dq-ing himself from the ballot, I can't see a court doing this.

I've been wrong before.

**313WX** · July-07-13, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by 7miledog

That's not an accurate statement, legally. All you have to determine for a write in vote to count is the voter's intent. It is entirely possible for Duggan to come in second. My money's on Duggan.

Even so, it may still lead to additional legal battles [[which wastes time and money), especially with Tom Barrow involved. I'm not aware of any legal precedents, but isn't the validity of a write-in vote at the discretion of the people counting the votes?

**313WX** · July-07-13, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

Thanks for calling us stupid, 313WX.

I didn't call anyone stupid. Just stated a fact [[a valid one).

**corktownyuppie** · July-07-13, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Even so, it may still lead to additional legal battles [[which wastes time and money), especially with Tom Barrow involved. I'm not aware of any legal precedents, but isn't the validity of a write-in vote at the discretion of the people counting the votes?

There's a joke going around about Tom Barrow calling a news conference to announce that a friend of his by the name of "Mickey Doogin" is starting a write-in campaign for the primary.

**firstandten** · July-07-13, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

There's a joke going around about Tom Barrow calling a news conference to announce that a friend of his by the name of "Mickey Doogin" is starting a write-in campaign for the primary.

LOL !! I wouldn't put it past him.

**sumas** · July-08-13, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

Thanks for calling us stupid, 313WX.

Duggan running a write-in campaign is at worst a way to keep Barrow from somehow getting into a #2 position for the election... and being the most known candidate left if something should come of the FBI investigation into Benny's office.

Honestly, Barrow is running for the wrong office. He seems to have really busted his ass doing Winfrey's job. He should go for it for real!

Curious how statistics work. Looked at Crains assessment of district 5. Apparently we are all morons, which may be true, but we comprise Indian Village, West Village, Islandview Village, Riverfront property, English Village, Downtown and part of Midtown. Stats don't seem quite right. Maybe they are including the jail population???

**Zacha341** · July-08-13, 07:23 AM

Correct, accurate spelling is the larger factor but so is intent. At the close of the polls ALL write-ins are sorted with the exactly correct spelling separated, from the next closest, in order of variance, per hierarchy [[ Ex: Michael Duggan, Mike Duggan, M. Duggin, etc.)

Then the actual count sites will do the final tally. 'Mickey Douglas' as a write-in? Not sure if that would fly! He can always demand a recount and sampling of percentage per precinct. All write-ins have this option. Always have.

Originally Posted by 7miledog

That's not an accurate statement, legally. All you have to determine for a write in vote to count is the voter's intent. It is entirely possible for Duggan to come in second. My money's on Duggan.

**sumas** · July-08-13, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

Curious how statistics work. Looked at Crains assessment of district 5. Apparently we are all morons, which may be true, but we comprise Indian Village, West Village, Islandview Village, Riverfront property, English Village, Downtown and part of Midtown. Stats don't seem quite right. Maybe they are including the jail population???

Oops forgot Lafayette Park. Oh and our buds on Belle Isle.. That may take us down a notch or not. Great lake views.

**sumas** · July-08-13, 08:23 AM

I do not mean to be flip. Honestly think Duggan is the best person for the job.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-08-13, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

I do not mean to be flip. Honestly think Duggan is the best person for the job.

Why? And what I'm more interested in is any thoughts about any other candidates. Lots of anti-Duggan around here. How bout some pro-'anyone else'?

**firstandten** · July-08-13, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Why? And what I'm more interested in is any thoughts about any other candidates. Lots of anti-Duggan around here. How bout some pro-'anyone else'?

Tom Barrow - Convicted felon , Krystal Crittendon- Detroit doesn't have a financial problem it has a collection problem, Lisa Howze- worth taking a harder look at however she might be an election cycle away from being a serious contender, Fred Durhal Jr. - In Matty Moroun pockets, John Olumba- needs to show he can be an effective State Rep but bares watching, John Telford- Needs to show he can run a school system effectively, Benny Napoleon - Not convinced he's anything more than a so-so Wayne County Sheriff trying very hard to turn this race into a popularity contest like most Detroit elections. The rest... either political gadflies or folks trying to get there name out there looking at the future. Given what we have its hard to be pro someone else at least Duggan has a record of accomplishment

**antongast** · July-08-13, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Given what we have its hard to be pro someone else at least Duggan has a record of accomplishment

Know anybody who worked for the DMC before, during, and after his tenure there? Run his name by them sometime. "He sold us down the river!" is about the kindest thing I've heard.

**webband1** · July-08-13, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

Know anybody who worked for the DMC before, during, and after his tenure there? Run his name by them sometime. "He sold us down the river!" is about the kindest thing I've heard.

Funny, because my wife who started working at the DMC just before Duggan left says her coworkers have nothing but good things to say about the guy, and that they were genuinely worried about the future of the DMC when he announced he was leaving DMC.

Not saying there aren't people who don't like him at DMC, just that there seems to be plenty that do like him there.

**TexasT** · July-08-13, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by webband1

Funny, because my wife who started working at the DMC just before Duggan left says her coworkers have nothing but good things to say about the guy, and that they were genuinely worried about the future of the DMC when he announced he was leaving DMC.

Not saying there aren't people who don't like him at DMC, just that there seems to be plenty that do like him there.

Yeah, I met someone who worked at DMC who had nothing but good things to say about Duggan - I found that very insightful. He said that the workers were told they would lose some stuff - vacation days, pay, etc - but if things got better, they'd get them back, and they did. It meant a lot to this guy that Duggan kept his promise in the end and didn't just hope everyone forgot about it [[my husband was told by his employer that they could collectively choose 10% paycut or 10% layoffs - they voted paycuts, and then got the layoffs too, and pay was never increased back when things got better, so this really stuck with me).

**antongast** · July-08-13, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by webband1

Not saying there aren't people who don't like him at DMC, just that there seems to be plenty that do like him there.

I have not met any such people to date, but I will keep an ear out. I'm certainly no DMC insider. That Vanguard sale really rubs me the wrong way, though.

**webband1** · July-08-13, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

I have not met any such people to date, but I will keep an ear out. I'm certainly no DMC insider. That Vanguard sale really rubs me the wrong way, though.

Yeah, people seem displeased with Vanguard [[who made some cuts to increase profits, as it turns out, to look better for Tennet or whoever to buy the company) and have complaints there, but the ones I know don't seem to blame Duggan for it.

**antongast** · July-08-13, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by webband1

Yeah, people seem displeased with Vanguard [[who made some cuts to increase profits, as it turns out, to look better for Tennet or whoever to buy the company) and have complaints there, but the ones I know don't seem to blame Duggan for it.

I don't get who else there is to blame. Wasn't he responsible as CEO for making the decision to sell to them?

**firstandten** · July-08-13, 01:48 PM

"Despite six years of profitability, the DMC was unable to get investment from the Wall Street bond market as a nonprofit."The nonprofit hospital model is killing health care in the city of Detroit," Duggan said at a news conference at Children's Hospital of Michigan.
Vanguard has agreed to $500 million in specific projects, including $170 million for a new Children's Hospital tower, $75 million for a new cardiovascular institute and outpatient building, and improvements to several other facilities. The other $350 million will be for ongoing repairs and capital and equipment needs.
"DMC at its core is a place that takes care of people who have no place else to go," Duggan said. "That's who we are, that's who we're always going to be."
Vanguard committed to keep all DMC hospitals open for 10 years and maintain the system's charity care policy during that time. The hospitals will be owned by a Vanguard subsidiary known as VHS Michigan and will continue to operate under the Detroit Medical Center name. The final purchase price has not been disclosed.
Trip Pilgrim, Vanguard's chief development officer and senior vice president, said the company was impressed by the DMC's profitability, given the difficult economic climate in the Detroit area. Pilgrim also said the work of DMC's management team, which will remain in place after the sale, was key." It seems that DMC was in some trouble and this was the best deal Duggan could get while still having DMC continue its mission. I don't really see this as a bad thing.

**corktownyuppie** · July-08-13, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

I don't get who else there is to blame. Wasn't he responsible as CEO for making the decision to sell to them?

The CEO may have made the decision, but CEOs aren't all-powerful. Market forces have a large impact and may force company leadership to sell, downsize, etc., even when it's not their ideal decision in the moment.

When Ford was pushed to the brink of bankruptcy, things were so bad that engineers would propose solutions that would save $100/yr but only cost $10 to implement. They would get rejected because the CEO and executives put a freeze on all unnecessary expenses because of hairy things were getting in 2008. People were pissed, but it turned out to be the right move. Hoarding that cash is primary thing that separated them from GM, saving the shareholders from bankruptcy and the employees their jobs.

When DMC was acquired by Vanguard, Vanguard also agreed to pay for $850 million in capital improvements and specific capital projects over the next five years. DMC was stable but still not 100% financially healthy, and this was a huge boost in stability that would allow them to serve their mission. [[Not to mention $850 million in improvements both created jobs while making services more competitive).

Now did that make the average employee happier or better off? Maybe so, maybe not. But it's keeping the hospital from closing down, and that's the most important thing.

Some people lament the fact that it went from non-profit to for-profit and have concerns about how the employees and the poor will be treated.

The World Socialist Web Site reported,

"The sale of DMC is part of a national drive to subordinate every aspect of health care to the demands of private profit. It will inevitably mean that the health care safety net, already severely strained by a huge increase in the number of uninsured, will be further eroded.

The move is also part of Bing’s campaign to privatize city services and downsize and depopulate broad sections of the city. Detroit Medical Center has long served as a place of last resort for those without medical insurance. Nonprofit hospitals are required to provide a certain minimum of uncompensated care and other benefits to the local communities they serve to maintain tax-exempt status.

Here's the thing...even if you agree with the World Socialist Web Site, you can't blame Duggan [[or any CEO) primarily. They are operating within the rules which exist. If people don't like that jobs are being outsourced to robots or other countries, then that's a public policy issue that they need to take up with elected officials and not one which can be fully blamed on executive decision making.