Detroit fireworks marred by at least two unexplained stampedes

[corktownyuppie]

It's sad that even if there were no shootings -- and so far, no one is confirming any shootings -- the mere fear of a shooting can lead to a stampede where people are unnecessarily getting hurt.

I would love the fireworks to remain, but I don't believe that they can in their current form. The DEMF model is the only solution I can think of, where people can pay to stay at Belle Isle and on Hart Plaza in a highly secured perimeter.

I think that people should be able to watch for free, but I don't know how to logistically accomplish that in a safe, secure way. I'm open to ideas. But things can't continue like this.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/06/55th_annual_detroit_fireworks.html#incart_river_de fault

[corktownyuppie]

p.s. Kudos to MLive for reporting this in a responsible way. All other media sources are reporting this with a headline referring to a "shooting that is unable to be confirmed" followed by statements which admit that a shooting may not have even happened.

[Spartan]

I'm interested to hear from someone who was down there. Everything seems to point to there not being any kind of gunfire. The articles leading up made it sound like security was going to be tight and searches were going to be performed. If it had a tight feel to it, I wonder if that would make people feel a bit more uneasy and prone to overreact to things.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Watching from my perch, 25 stories above the intersection of Jefferson and Woodward, were the most beautiful fireworks a Detroiter could hope for.

Then about 3 minutes in, I look down to see thousands of people running in every direction, knocking each other down and stepping on each other, parents holding their babies in the air for fear they would be stomped upon in the melee. Children knocked over and crushed into the steel barricades as young people carelessly ran for their lives. People running east on Jefferson literally ran up the 3-75 entrance ramp to get away, while others tried any door they could reach only to have security block their entrances. Cruisers ran into people as they raced to the scene, horses were rearing back in fear, and just when I thought this couldn't get any worse, more shots rang out, causing even more people to scatter. Then the fights started to break out on the street and in the buses. It was an absolute clusterfuk.

When all was said and done, I stood inside a lobby filled with injured people and crying children who had been separated from their parents, looking out into a street covered in shoes, strollers, garbage, and blood.

I've seen a lot of shit living in this town. And I've told you guys about some of these things hoping that you might gain some insight or understanding about the lives that some of us Detroiters endure in our pursuit of surviving this craziness. But in reflection, i find myself looking at Detroit through the eyes of the outsiders and thinking to myself: I really can't blame them for thinking so low of us, especially when stuff like this happens. What i saw tonight from my fellow Detroiters and the police makes me feel low, like we are exactly what they say we are. Uncivilized. Undeserving of a comeback. Unable to handle the most basic functions. I can only shake my head and think about the dozens of parents, children, and strangers in that lobby who fearfully took each others hands, stood in a circle and prayed to God for protection before they left the building to head home in the middle of that madness.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/22...wntown-detroit

[old guy]

Sounds like a sad situation and unfortunate for a kid to have a memory of a childhood experience that most of us never had at a celebration.

[firstandten]

And to go along with 282 juveniles were detained for curfew violations, and 150 parents were cited as well. The story is that the parents are upset there kids were busted for the curfew violations. My questions is why was this even temporary the DPD should be enforcing curfew violators every day and ticketing their parents everyday as well. If some of these parents would raise their kids then law enforcement wouldn't have to do it for them.

[getmoore]

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/22...wntown-detroit



Watching from my perch, 25 stories above the intersection of Jefferson and Woodward, were the most beautiful fireworks a Detroiter could hope for.

Then about 3 minutes in, I look down to see thousands of people running in every direction, knocking each other down and stepping on each other, parents holding their babies in the air for fear they would be stomped upon in the melee. Children knocked over and crushed into the steel barricades as young people carelessly ran for their lives. People running east on Jefferson literally ran up the 3-75 entrance ramp to get away, while others tried any door they could reach only to have security block their entrances. Cruisers ran into people as they raced to the scene, horses were rearing back in fear, and just when I thought this couldn't get any worse, more shots rang out, causing even more people to scatter. Then the fights started to break out on the street and in the buses. It was an absolute clusterfuk.

When all was said and done, I stood inside a lobby filled with injured people and crying children who had been separated from their parents, looking out into a street covered in shoes, strollers, garbage, and blood.


I've seen a lot of shit living in this town. And I've told you guys about some of these things hoping that you might gain some insight or understanding about the lives that some of us Detroiters endure in our pursuit of surviving this craziness. But in reflection, i find myself looking at Detroit through the eyes of the outsiders and thinking to myself: I really can't blame them for thinking so low of us, especially when stuff like this happens. What i saw tonight from my fellow Detroiters and the police makes me feel low, like we are exactly what they say we are. Uncivilized. Undeserving of a comeback. Unable to handle the most basic functions. I can only shake my head and think about the dozens of parents, children, and strangers in that lobby who fearfully took each others hands, stood in a circle and prayed to God for protection before they left the building to head home in the middle of that madness.

I wish you'd have gotten video. I'm sure hope somebody out there did though. According to the media no one was shooting and people were just panicked because of the echo of the fireworks. Either way I'm glad I decided it was too hot for me to venture down there with my kids.
Such a shame.

[Zacha341]

Watched it on TV with surround sound on and windows wide open to hear the bombing of the works... you can always count on youtube for the aftermath I suppose...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXCPMrjo42Y

Comments on other news channels state there was a melee in response to gun shots: trampling, folks running out of their shoes, purses dropped, kids separated from parents. Some say before the works some say 10 minutes after they started?

This newscast shows a bit of running... and a somewhat lengthy interview...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/s...z/-/index.html

[firstandten]

You might remember there was a similar incident at WSU back in August during the High school football games there on campus. Hundreds of kids were running across the field players from both teams hit the ground. People swore they heard shots but no gun was found. Turned out this happen around the time there were fireworks going off at Comerica Park after the Tigers game. In a city like Detroit fireworks can be mistaken for gunshots very easily.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Big crowds, 'some' free events like that I just don't do anymore much. Too bad, the colors of the works were incredible even on TV, lots of oranges and green colors.

[Zacha341]

Interesting long comment in this report. Opinion is that there was a lack of police...

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...eworks.html#/0

[TexasT]

You might remember there was a similar incident at WSU back in August during the High school football games there on campus. Hundreds of kids were running across the field players from both teams hit the ground. People swore they heard shots but no gun was found. Turned out this happen around the time there were fireworks going off at Comerica Park after the Tigers game. In a city like Detroit fireworks can be mistaken for gunshots very easily.

Yeah I was at that game. A lot of panic over nothing - the game resumed [[and Cass Tech won).

I saw the fireworks from Woodward and Congress. I saw the panic, but it did not look that chaotic to me from where I was. Sad.

[Detroitdave]

This is really sad , really sad ,I hate to say this , I really hate to say this !, but these headlines could have been written the day before, it really wrote itself even before the first firework went off .

I'm sure this headline/story was already written, all the writer had to do was hit send.

It's sad in this day and time that at ANY large gathering some people make a wonderful event bad for everyone . With the recent bombs in Boston and other scares , the country is on edge.

This could happen in most any city , BUT Detroit has a history of this pattern during this event and of course this gives the Detroit haters more than enough ammo to say "see I told you Detroit is a hell hole, I'll NEVER GO INTO THE CITY AGAIN ".

We had the same problems in LA with gangs ect, and they moved the fireworks to 4 am on the beach , still same thing , so the stop having free fireworks .

When unfortunate things like this happen NYC and Boston they stand "Boston strong/ NYC strong", when things like this happens in Detroit we all know the routine.

I hate to say it but perhaps they should stop having the fireworks in Downtown for free, because it's impossible to control large crowds at an event like this.

This is a cause of a few ruining it for the many, I'm sorry but I think this many be the case, just have fireworks at tigers game

[iheartthed]

This is really sad , really sad ,I hate to say this , I really hate to say this !, but these headlines could have been written the day before, it really wrote itself even before the first firework went off .

It probably was written the day before. Detroit Police says there is no evidence that a shooting took place at the fireworks:

Fear of a shooting at one point during the night had people in the crowd rushing to leave but Stephens said there is no confirmation of a shooting.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013062...Ford-fireworks

[corktownyuppie]

It probably was written the day before. Detroit Police says there is no evidence that a shooting took place at the fireworks:

I take issue with the headline of the OP.

- Media is now backing away original statement that shooting occurred.
- Police state no shooting occurred.
- No shooting victim or victims have stepped forward.

Deadline Detroit now has article with headline, "People Panic Over Nothing at All at Fireworks."

Now am I stating that unequivocally that there was no shooting? No. But so far, all we know is that:

- Panic caused a stampede
- No one is sure if shots were actually fired
- There are some similarities between the sound of fireworks and the sound of shots fired.
- We have some major decisions to make about how [[of if) we can handle crowd control for events like this.

So how about a new headline? One that actually points toward the substance of the debate?

"Panic and Confusion Causes Stampede at Fireworks, Sound of Fireworks Possibly Mistaken for Shooting"

There's a difference between "Possible Fire at Crowded Theater Causes Stampede" vs. "Man Yelling 'Fire' at Theater Causes Stampede: No Evidence of Actual Fire"

[iheartthed]

I take issue with the headline of the OP.

- Media is now backing away original statement that shooting occurred.
- Police state no shooting occurred.
- No shooting victim or victims have stepped forward.

Deadline Detroit now has article with headline, "People Panic Over Nothing at All at Fireworks."

Now am I stating that unequivocally that there was no shooting? No. But so far, all we know is that:

- Panic caused a stampede
- No one is sure if shots were actually fired
- There are some similarities between the sound of fireworks and the sound of shots fired.
- We have some major decisions to make about how [[of if) we can handle crowd control for events like this.

So how about a new headline? One that actually points toward the substance of the debate?

"Panic and Confusion Causes Stampede at Fireworks, Sound of Fireworks Possibly Mistaken for Shooting"

There's a difference between "Possible Fire at Crowded Theater Causes Stampede" vs. "Man Yelling 'Fire' at Theater Causes Stampede: No Evidence of Actual Fire"

Fact checking? "Ain't nobody got time for that!"

In the Deadline comments someone posted a Youtube apparently taken during the fireworks show last night. It shows some blood on the ground and a barricade fence knocked over as evidence of a shooting. However, there is no body/injured person lying on the ground and people are standing around looking not how they would look if they had just witnessed someone shooting a gun in a crowded area.

[Bham1982]

Police official statement is "no confirmation of a shooting".

That's very different than "police say no shooting occured".

I wasn't there, and have no clue what happened, but it looks like the police aren't sure either, or perhaps they know something happened, but don't yet have proof [[and probably are under pressure to downplay the incident because it's very bad PR for the city).

[Honky Tonk]

Fact checking? "Ain't nobody got time for that!"

In the Deadline comments someone posted a Youtube apparently taken during the fireworks show last night. It shows some blood on the ground and a barricade fence knocked over as evidence of a shooting. However, there is no body/injured person lying on the ground and people are standing around looking not how they would look if they had just witnessed someone shooting a gun in a crowded area.

In the original Y'all Tube video, there is a woman being consoled by a friend, and a pool of blood on the ground. Any idea where the pool of blood came from? [[catsup?)

[MikeM]

I take issue with the headline of the OP.

It was composed at 1:47 AM. I went to bed after watching the news, thinking there was a shooting, and woke to reports that there wasn't.

[corktownyuppie]

In the original Y'all Tube video, there is a woman being consoled by a friend, and a pool of blood on the ground. Any idea where the pool of blood came from? [[catsup?)

According to WDIV, the stampede resulted in several injuries, including a police officer who was hit by a car while trying to react to the stampede. There were other injuries as well.

I guess my point is not whether there were or there weren't shots fired, because at this point, we don't know, and it's very likely that we will never know. The problem is that we cannot have incidents like this. It is unsafe, and people are getting hurt.

The question is how do we handle big crowds? If we cannot handle crowd control, then we cannot continue to have this event in this format.

[corktownyuppie]

It was composed at 1:47 AM. I went to bed after watching the news, thinking there was a shooting, and woke to reports that there wasn't.

No worries, Mike. My issue was with the headline, not its author I don't blame you because I went through the same roller coaster last night with media trying to figure out what happened. Lowell, any chance we can update the header now that the "shooting" has shifted from "reported event" to "plausible but unconfirmed"?

[iheartthed]

In the original Y'all Tube video, there is a woman being consoled by a friend, and a pool of blood on the ground. Any idea where the pool of blood came from? [[catsup?)

A person's body? That's pretty obvious. But gunshot wounds aren't the only thing that would cause a person to bleed.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

How can the original OP state there was a shooting when it hasn't been confirmed? DPD says there wasn't one. I'm sure they have no reason to lie about it. All media outlets I've heard said there was no shooting. And I find that Fox 2 news reporting is suspect at best. They always perpetuate things with their news reporting. So what happened to cause the stampede?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

A person's body? That's pretty obvious. But gunshot wounds aren't the only thing that would cause a person to bleed.

Being trampled in a stampede would.

[Bham1982]

How can the original OP state there was a shooting when it hasn't been confirmed? DPD says there wasn't one.

Where does DPD say there isn't a shooting?