When Orr's Finished, The City of Detroit Will Only Exist In Name...

**313WX** · June-22-13, 05:14 AM

I expected the cuts to be bad, but will be there anything left to salvage when the smoke clear, or will "Detroit" only exist as the name on the City Charter?

http://michigancitizen.com/detroit-d...-orr-succeeds/

**rb336** · June-22-13, 07:30 AM

Absurd, alarmist commentary

**313WX** · June-22-13, 07:33 AM

It's not the commentary that's important, but the restructuring/cuts outlined in his plan.

DarkestbeforedawnDetroit · June-22-13, 07:52 AM

I honestly think Detroit will be ok. People like to bring up Flint alot , in terms of talking about EM , but what people forget is that A) Flint was never a great city unlike Detroit B)There's investment in the Greater Downtown area and other miscellaneous neighborhoods unlike Flint. I am a firm believer that if a city, no matter how big, has a thriving urban core it WILL succeed and spread. A great example is Denver, it may not have been broke like Detroit but it took off when young proffessional moved downtown before they moved there Denver was a cow town that ended at 5 o'clock.. I have nothing but optimistic hopes for Detroit, there may be mistakes here and there[[SEMCOG expansion plan) but what city doesn't.

**TexasT** · June-22-13, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

It's not the commentary that's important, but the restructuring/cuts outlined in his plan.

I agree with his plan.

**Detroitdave** · June-22-13, 08:12 AM

I agree with 95% of his plan , a lot of that stuff needs to go private , i.e. lighting , and the city council totally screw up when they gave into that "vocal minority" and didn't lease belle ille to the state and look what's happening anyway , the island will still be lease to the state .
All that GRAND Standing and the results are the same .
it goes to show the city council really wasn't in control they were cow towing to that very vocal minority , which some are leaving the council because they can't bully the city anymore ,

**Zacha341** · June-22-13, 08:21 AM

One of the cuts:

"Cut 99.6 percent of health care benefits and use a combination of Obamacare, Medicare and other unspecified programs to “provide affordable pension and health care insurance benefits.”

Great... we'll soon really 'see what's in' that Obamacare just as Nancy Pelosi promised!

And so much for the water battle... going regional?

Originally Posted by 313WX

I expected the cuts to be bad, but will be there anything left to salvage when the smoke clear, or will "Detroit" only exist as the name on the City Charter?

http://michigancitizen.com/detroit-d...-orr-succeeds/

**mwilbert** · June-22-13, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I expected the cuts to be bad, but will be there anything left to salvage when the smoke clear, or will "Detroit" only exist as the name on the City Charter?

http://michigancitizen.com/detroit-d...-orr-succeeds/

This is nonsense. It isn't as if Detroit were a normally-functioning city now, nor has it been in the recent past. Has the city really been providing substantial services to its citizens recently? How does privatizing trash pickup make you less of a city? What does having a lot of pensioners have to do with being a city?

**Wesley Mouch** · June-22-13, 09:22 AM

Why the attachment to this governmental entity? I mourn the loss of the Detroit that was a world leader. But its gone. The government of Detroit is no longer an entity that brings any value to the citizens. And that's the only measure of a city government. All else is sentimental.

**softailrider** · June-22-13, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by DarkestbeforedawnDetroit

I honestly think Detroit will be ok. People like to bring up Flint alot , in terms of talking about EM , but what people forget is that A) Flint was never a great city unlike Detroit B)There's investment in the Greater Downtown area and other miscellaneous neighborhoods unlike Flint. I am a firm believer that if a city, no matter how big, has a thriving urban core it WILL succeed and spread. A great example is Denver, it may not have been broke like Detroit but it took off when young proffessional moved downtown before they moved there Denver was a cow town that ended at 5 o'clock.. I have nothing but optimistic hopes for Detroit, there may be mistakes here and there[[SEMCOG expansion plan) but what city doesn't.

I agree that Detroit will survive, it's going to change but it will come out of this. I not too sure about your thriving urban core statement though. I do see young people moving in certain areas - but what happens when those young people have kids of their own? Most people don't want to spend 10000.00 per year per kid for private schools. At this point, Detroit Public Schools aren't a viable option.

If we didn't have 50 years of inept divisive leadership I really think the city would be in way better shape then it is now.

**Khorasaurus** · June-22-13, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I agree that Detroit will survive, it's going to change but it will come out of this. I not too sure about your thriving urban core statement though. I do see young people moving in certain areas - but what happens when those young people have kids of their own? Most people don't want to spend 10000.00 per year per kid for private schools. At this point, Detroit Public Schools aren't a viable option.
.

This is a legitimate problem, but I think what will happen is that one generation of 20 somethings will move into the suburbs and be replaced by another generation of 20 somethings. Meanwhile, the now-30 and 40 somethings and their kids will continue to patronize businesses in the city and otherwise support the city even though they live in the suburbs, since Midtown and Downtown will still feel like home to them.

That will be a big change from the current generation of 40-60 year old suburbanites, many of whom remember the city as a place they had to flee from because of crime and violence, and actively avoid going to places in the city because of that.

**artds** · June-22-13, 10:05 AM

Well, what's YOUR solution? Presumably you want Orr to stop what he's doing. What should be done instead?

**corktownyuppie** · June-22-13, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I expected the cuts to be bad, but will be there anything left to salvage when the smoke clear, or will "Detroit" only exist as the name on the City Charter?

http://michigancitizen.com/detroit-d...-orr-succeeds/

I think there will still be a very robust City Government, especially in comparison to other cities. But, no, it won't [[and can't) ever be the giant, sprawling octopus of city departments that were formerly in existence.

My sense is that you will see an increase in police, fire, tax collection, etc and a decrease in everything else.

**TexasT** · June-22-13, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I do see young people moving in certain areas - but what happens when those young people have kids of their own? Most people don't want to spend 10000.00 per year per kid for private schools. At this point, Detroit Public Schools aren't a viable option.

This is not just an issue in Detroit, it's an issue in most cities. The first thing people ask me when I say I live in the city is "But do you have kids?" I don't but we plan to in a year or so. And we approach it no differently than we did when we lived in Chicago, which doesn't have great publics either [[50% of CPS teachers put their kids in private schools).

Not every public school is 10K a year, first of all. Plenty of parochial schools are cheaper [[Most Holy Trinity in Corktown would be 5K/yr for two kids). Also, yuppies are more likely not to have kids or have just one or maybe two. Finally, that's the circle of life in cities. All of my friends in Chicago were childless. When one had a kid, off to the burbs they went [[to be replaced by other 20-something hipsters and yuppies). A few of my friends will probably stick around in the city [[as we planned to).

The way I look at it here in Detroit, my mortgage is 1/4 of my Chicago rent. I can pay for my house and 1 or 2 kids' tuition and still probably come out ahead of where I was.

**TexasT** · June-22-13, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

This is nonsense. It isn't as if Detroit were a normally-functioning city now, nor has it been in the recent past. Has the city really been providing substantial services to its citizens recently? How does privatizing trash pickup make you less of a city? What does having a lot of pensioners have to do with being a city?

Exactly. Milliken State Park on the riverwalk was ceded to the state. It's used by Detroiters just the same [[if not more, because it's actually nice and well-maintained). Belle Isle will be no less "Detroit" just because the state pays for trash cleanup instead of the city.

**coracle** · June-22-13, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I expected the cuts to be bad, but will be there anything left to salvage when the smoke clear, or will "Detroit" only exist as the name on the City Charter?

http://michigancitizen.com/detroit-d...-orr-succeeds/

There will always be a Detroit no matter how many people live in the area, and looking at the next several decades it's being given an opportunity to be better than it has been for the last several decades. Detroit will get better to the extent that depends on the quality of the people who put themselves forward for election. It needs leaders that can say "NO" and mean it.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · June-22-13, 01:19 PM

I think when Orr's finished, the city might actually start to function again. And I would hazard a guess that removing so much financial uncertainty will have a positive impact on reinvestment in the city.

**Danny** · June-22-13, 01:29 PM

When Orr is finished. The financial review team will look at the process:

1. Is Detroit gov't pay its bills on time.

2. Is it cooperating with its creditors, unions and retirees.

3. Is the money from state or feds are going toward public services.

If those requirements are fulfilled, The Detroit will be off of EM's and back to home rule. If not then another EM will take over.

**gumby** · June-22-13, 02:04 PM

Why do you gotta bring Flint into this conversation. First off completely different set and scale of problems. Secondly yo are completely wrong in your assesment of Flint. I am not sure what the fuck you mean by Flint was never a great city. It was never as big as Detroit but in its hayday Flint was every bit a great city. It is the birthplace of GM, Buick was headquarted here until Detroit stole it from us, the Flint sitdown strikes were instrumental in the formation of the UAW. There has also been quite a bit investment in downtown Flint within the last 5-10 years when I started at U of M-Flint back in 2002 Downtown Flint was basically a ghost town and now 11 years later I am working downtown everyday and many buildings have been renovated and there are independent restaurants, bars, a concert venue and shops. Now the investment hasn't reached the neighborhoods like it has in Detroit but lets face it outside of midtown the neighborhoods in Detroit are rotting just like some of the ones in Flint. Flint has many advantages over Detroit as well, our bus system is well run, we don't have anywhere near as much long term debt as Detroit and most of the coruption in the government when Don Williamson went away. Like Detroit it is going to be a long road to recovery but the picture is not as bleak as you would make it out to be.

Originally Posted by DarkestbeforedawnDetroit

I honestly think Detroit will be ok. People like to bring up Flint alot , in terms of talking about EM , but what people forget is that A) Flint was never a great city unlike Detroit B)There's investment in the Greater Downtown area and other miscellaneous neighborhoods unlike Flint. I am a firm believer that if a city, no matter how big, has a thriving urban core it WILL succeed and spread. A great example is Denver, it may not have been broke like Detroit but it took off when young proffessional moved downtown before they moved there Denver was a cow town that ended at 5 o'clock.. I have nothing but optimistic hopes for Detroit, there may be mistakes here and there[[SEMCOG expansion plan) but what city doesn't.

DarkestbeforedawnDetroit · June-22-13, 02:24 PM

You seriously want to argue which is better between Detroit and Flint? My intension wasnt and isnt to insult Flint but which city can you see coming back first? Yes Detroit has corruption problems but thats nothing new, even old timers growing up in the heyday of Detroit say it was corrupt back then. Like I said before I didnt mean to dawg Flint but if you took a national poll which people would live in Detroit or Flint which do you think would win? I hope Flint does well but if not oh well Detroit is the core city in Michigan and that comes first

**gumby** · June-22-13, 03:18 PM

I am not trying to argue which is better. I was correcting your misinformed view of Flint.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · June-22-13, 03:54 PM

Anyone catch last night's episode of The Dead Files? It was in Flint.

**DetroitHabitater** · June-22-13, 05:01 PM

michigancitizen has always been garbage journalism as long as I've been here [[6 years)

**rb336** · June-22-13, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

One of the cuts:

"Cut 99.6 percent of health care benefits and use a combination of Obamacare, Medicare and other unspecified programs to “provide affordable pension and health care insurance benefits.”

Great... we'll soon really 'see what's in' that Obamacare just as Nancy Pelosi promised!

And so much for the water battle... going regional?

Anyone who can read can find out what's in it.

I have no issue of allowing retirees to go on Medicare. They've paid into it their whole lives. One set of my grandparents had Medicare, the other had private health insurance. Guess which ones got the better care and had better doctors [[I met most of them)?