City Council says, get your #&!*@% Art out of my Paradise Valley

**gnome** · July-08-09, 04:53 PM

Paradise Valley, the eternal Gift, keeps on giving:

With all the fine things City Council does for us, add art critic to their list of valuable services. Seems they are objecting to the outdoor sculptures that have been bought and paid for by the Kresege Foundation.

I had no idea BRC and Kwame Kenyata were so highly schooled in art appreciation.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...aradise-Valley

**alsodave** · July-08-09, 04:57 PM

I guess no one thought to submit "Dogs Playing Poker"...

Stosh · July-08-09, 06:09 PM

I looked at those pieces by Tyree Guyton, and truly, it looks similar to something out of the Dr. Seuss playbook. The still and the portal are rather strange, to my taste. Then again, I wasn't much for the Millenium bell either.

That being said, it's art. Open to interpretation. I'd like to hear what the artist had in mind when creating the piece. By the title "Paradise Ascension". I'd assume it's a representative ladder to signify the rise of the children of the former Paradise Valley to assume a greater role in the government of the city.

But that significance is totally lost on this bunch. I couldn't imagine what they would want to see. Is it the desparate conditions and overcrowding in the Valley due to the racist administrations? The mixed crowds that came to see the entertainment there? [[shhh don't tell them) The still was accurate, anyway, during prohibition, but not unique to the Valley.

**Sstashmoo** · July-08-09, 06:39 PM

I have to admit that is some pretty sad looking art.

**Detroitej72** · July-08-09, 06:50 PM

Great, we have a clown council who, in addition to being totally incompatant, also fancy themselves as art critics.

Just remember this when you go to vote this year.

LodgeDodger · July-08-09, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by alsodave

I guess no one thought to submit "Dogs Playing Poker"...

Awesome! ;-)

MIRepublic · July-08-09, 07:58 PM

This is scary; I actually agree with just about everything BRC and Kenyatta said. Just like any one genre of art, I don't think abstract is appropriate, everywhere, and this is one of those cases. I guess it doesn't help that I've never much been a fan of Guyton's work, but even with that said, I think even a fan could agree that an argument can be made that Paradise Valley/Harmonie Park wouldn't be the best venue for it.

BTW, the art was commissioned by the council, right? If that's the case, I'd sure hope they'd have an opinion. It's too bad the grant money seems to have been wasted, but it really does look like Guyton was phoning it in on this one. It's really kind of sad.

2blocksaway · July-08-09, 08:00 PM

allow me to translate

"We were looking for something blacker. You know, like the painting above the Cosbys fireplace."

LodgeDodger · July-08-09, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Paradise Valley, the eternal Gift, keeps on giving:

With all the fine things City Council does for us, add art critic to their list of valuable services. Seems they are objecting to the outdoor sculptures that have been bought and paid for by the Kresege Foundation.

I had no idea BRC and Kwame Kenyata were so highly schooled in art appreciation.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...aradise-Valley

You know, Gnome, they could always move "The Fist".

**thecarl** · July-08-09, 08:03 PM

well, i'm one of those philistines that believes art should have a connection to its audience. and while i find the notion totally contemptible, i might even find the smearing of elephant dung on a portrait of the virgin mary more "artistic" than what i've seen here - for the simple fact that even though i find such imagery which denigrates a revered religious icon insulting, it is provocative and compelling. i find neither element in the so-called art rejected by city council. if there's one thing i have a hard time tolerating in "art," it's knowing that i could have done it myself, perhaps even better. just because something is unusual, or geometric, or colorful, or all in one color, does not make it art. if i write a computer program that crashes i cannot criticize the consumer for not understanding computer programs. if an artist constructs a piece that compels not beauty or harmony or introspection, there's a good chance that they've failed. it happens in every profession. don't take it personally, artists.

**raptor56** · July-08-09, 08:11 PM

"We wanted art reflective of Paradise Valley, not reflective of some artists' vision of the universe as it exists in their mind," said Councilwoman Barbara Rose-Collins.

So why don't they just get a bunch of black statues, ala Easter Island style

**gumby** · July-08-09, 08:24 PM

this is why I hate you art snobs. How dare people not like the so called art? Us ignorant masses could care less about what the fuck the artists intent was. A piece of crap is a piece of crap. This turd cannot be polished.

I'm sorry just because someone thinks it is art doesn't make it so. I think many here would agree that "Piss Jesus" sucks but how dare we comment on its offensiveness and how we don't want public money funding it.

Stosh · July-08-09, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by gumby

this is why I hate you art snobs. How dare people not like the so called art? Us ignorant masses could care less about what the fuck the artists intent was. A piece of crap is a piece of crap. This turd cannot be polished.

I'm sorry just because someone thinks it is art doesn't make it so. I think many here would agree that "Piss Jesus" sucks but how dare we comment on its offensiveness and how we don't want public money funding it.

Wow. Tell us how you really feel, would ya? That's what art is. Interpretation. Sounds like you're trying to make a Republican talking point, although one about 20 years old, and vastly discredited.

Whoever picked these people to interpret their wishes in this matter, whether it was the Council or the DEGC should take ccomplete responsibility for this artwork, and subsequent waste of money. It appears to me that they should be blamed fully in this fiasco, as they should have known full well what manner of artists they were getting when they picked them.

It's not the artist's fault here. Anyone with half a brain could tell you that Tyree would not be presenting you with anything other than the art representations he does in the city. I can't speak to the other artists involved, but I'm sure that a more complete and open process would have benefited everyone concerned.

Maybe a graphic representation of the artworks proposed submitted would have helped some. It appears that some on the council don't like surprises much.

**izzyindetroit** · July-08-09, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by dexterferry

I'm prepared to reserve judgment for when I see something other than a low-res jpeg of a piece still in the studio.

Yep those pictures don't do the art any justice. Erickson's ladder is interesting, the placement is definitely key. We all would know what to expect from Gutton, I actually like this piece, considering it could be a pile of painted found objects. I'm not going to comment on Alice's piece, simply because it looks like it was taken with a 1 megapixel camera phone. What is with that, The News can't afford photographers anymore?

Let the artists create art! If the council has a problem with its abstractness, then they should have been a little more clear on what they wanted created. Plain and simple.

**rondinjp** · July-08-09, 10:23 PM

I actually like alice smith's and todd erickson's pieces. And I am far from an art critic. However, Gutton's piece is exactly the same as all his other works. of course I have never really thought most of his works really were artistic in any fashion.

**wolverine** · July-08-09, 10:49 PM

I have no comment on the art. Really I can't tell from those grainy photos. But I think its interesting the council would be so vocal about the appearance of something going in the city. I mean, have they looked out their windows on the way to work lately? Forget the art, start worrying about blight about you.

**gumby** · July-09-09, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Stosh

Wow. Tell us how you really feel, would ya? That's what art is. Interpretation. Sounds like you're trying to make a Republican talking point, although one about 20 years old, and vastly discredited.

Whoever picked these people to interpret their wishes in this matter, whether it was the Council or the DEGC should take ccomplete responsibility for this artwork, and subsequent waste of money. It appears to me that they should be blamed fully in this fiasco, as they should have known full well what manner of artists they were getting when they picked them.

It's not the artist's fault here. Anyone with half a brain could tell you that Tyree would not be presenting you with anything other than the art representations he does in the city. I can't speak to the other artists involved, but I'm sure that a more complete and open process would have benefited everyone concerned.

Maybe a graphic representation of the artworks proposed submitted would have helped some. It appears that some on the council don't like surprises much.

Why does everything have to go Republican vs. Democrat on this site anymore? Don't you have a real arguement? And how has my opinion that crap "art" is crap been discredited? It is my opinion and sorry to say the opinion of everyone but the art snobs. Look I love art as much as the next guy but I fail to see how throwing a bunch of garbage together is art. You might disagree with me and that is fine but sue me for expressing my opinion.

How do we know the Council was not more specific in what they wanted and the artist simply ignored them. I mean artist can be a little confrontational if they don't get to do what they want, I know my artist friends can.

Stosh · July-09-09, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by gumby

Why does everything have to go Republican vs. Democrat on this site anymore? Don't you have a real arguement? And how has my opinion that crap "art" is crap been discredited? It is my opinion and sorry to say the opinion of everyone but the art snobs. Look I love art as much as the next guy but I fail to see how throwing a bunch of garbage together is art. You might disagree with me and that is fine but sue me for expressing my opinion.

How do we know the Council was not more specific in what they wanted and the artist simply ignored them. I mean artist can be a little confrontational if they don't get to do what they want, I know my artist friends can.

I agree that throwing garbage together is not art. Pulling out the "public funding" argument IS the talking point of many years ago. Foundation money is NOT public money.
Remember Maplethorpe? That argument is all about repression of viewpoints that are not "mainstream".

How do we know that the council was not more specific? Really... it's the council. They weren't interested in specific. When you think of art in this town, who's name is published more in the paper than any other? Tyree. And he probably reccommended the others. What's funny is that there's 2 schools downtown , Wayne and CCS, that have considerable talent. Did they even approach them for ideas? Have a design contest? Judged by the people or by a coherent jury? Not a chance.

**KOMPOST** · July-09-09, 07:56 AM

Barbara Rose Collins makes a very weak argument:
art should be understood by "down-to-earth" people.
I [[BRC) cannot understand this art.
Therefore, Detroit residents will not understand, nor appreciate, this.

She goes on to call the pieces "too modern" and not representative of Paradise Valley, where down to earth people gathered in the 1940s...to listen to [[then) modern jazz!

**GREENTROIT** · July-09-09, 08:06 AM

Why would the City Council worry about real issues when they can fight over art and Colt 45 advertisements?

**Supersport** · July-09-09, 09:05 AM

I gotta side with city council on this one. I could easily replicate this "art" with the welder/tools I have along with the help of the muffler shop up the block. Art? Hardly.

Am I an educated art critic? No, aside from an appreciation of art class or two I took in college, I'm fairly ignorant in the art department. That being said, I'm NOT an artist. So when I see a bunch of junk welded together [[with often shitty ass welds at that) and put on display in a park, knowing damn well that this non artist could replicate it in my garage, well, then that shit ain't art! It's somebody's junk held together by weld or other other means.

**Sstashmoo** · July-09-09, 09:10 AM

Looks as though the piece was created with the price of metal, and shipping costs taken into consideration. Hardly parameters for free expression.

If I had spent an organization's money and received something like that, I'd be pissed.

**KOMPOST** · July-09-09, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Supersport

I gotta side with city council on this one. I could easily replicate this "art" with the welder/tools I have along with the help of the muffler shop up the block. Art? Hardly.

Am I an educated art critic? No, aside from an appreciation of art class or two I took in college, I'm fairly ignorant in the art department. That being said, I'm NOT an artist. So when I see a bunch of junk welded together [[with often shitty ass welds at that) and put on display in a park, knowing damn well that this non artist could replicate it in my garage, well, then that shit ain't art! It's somebody's junk held together by weld or other other means.

Ahhhh...the 'ol "my kid coulda done that" critique. Knew we'd see at least one of these.
Thanks for the chuckle.

**ZRX Doug** · July-09-09, 09:33 AM

When it's true, the old "my kid coulda done that" critique is valid..back when the Heidelberg[[sp?) project was new and exciting, I and some friends from out of town went to check it out..at the time I worked in a salvage yard, and was struck by the amazing resemblance of this "art" to the sorted piles of crap found at my workplace..one of my friends said it reminded him of the aftermath of a tornado in his hometown in Kentucky..
Piles o' junk may be art in some folk's mind, but all I'll ever see is piles o' junk.