DDOT in the Suburbs?!?!

[mtburb]

Just a few minutes ago, I was heading through Wyandotte when at Eureka Road and 3rd Street, there was a DDOT New Flyer bus that was heading east towards Biddle Avenue that I never expected [[because DDOT doesn't operate any routes within Wyandotte and hasn't since the attempted merger with SMART way back in 1994-95)! It was a 2010 New Flyer D40LF numbered #1029, but all DDOT logos were whited out [[but not the green and yellow stripes), to make things more weirder! I later saw that same bus heading north on Biddle, crossing Oak Street and later, heading home, at Eureka & 17th Street, a 2002 SMART Gillig Low Floor bus [[like I usually see around here) went in the same direction.

Perhaps this is either an attempt to increase #160 headways or is there a new DDOT-SMART merger I never heard of or is SMART low on their usual buses and forced to lease some from DDOT? Have any of you seen any DDOT buses in suburban Detroit recently too [[they have to be operating SMART routes to count!)?

Sadly, I never got a picture for proof, but will try to get one today.

[Dumpling]

The DDOT Plymouth Road bus turns around in Livonia by the Home Depot
and the Costco that are at the southeast corner of the Middlebelt at I-96
intersection. One stop is by the Costco in back of the building not too
far from where the semi trucks bring their cargo to the store.

[mtburb]

The DDOT Plymouth Road bus turns around in Livonia by the Home Depot
and the Costco that are at the southeast corner of the Middlebelt at I-96
intersection. One stop is by the Costco in back of the building not too
far from where the semi trucks bring their cargo to the store.

I actually meant seeing DDOT buses operating SMART routes like the Wyandotte one I saw today.

[Danny]

What! If I see a D-DOT bus in Wyandotte. I will believe it.

[Meddle]

Charter? SMART leased a DDOT vehicle because they were short one?

[JenniferL]

Weird... About ten years ago, some DDOT routes did extend out to the suburbs. Some [[not all) of the 53 Woodward route went all the way out to the Royal Oak Transit Center. I've also seen DDOTs at 13 Mile & Woodward near Beaumont Hospital. But this was a long, long time ago. I don't know about any new DDOT suburban routes.

[DetroitPlanner]

DDOT has too many buses and not enough drivers. SMART does not have buses to provide the service that is scheduled. Next time check the bus number. I'd be willing to bet that many of the ones you are seeing are being operated by SMART. Remember, capital funding for buses is doled out based upon regional population therefore, the region as a whole owns the buses, not just SMART or DDOT.

[Rocko]

40 coaches in the DDOT 4100-4220 D40LF fleet [[acquired by DDOT in 2005) were sent to SMART in some kind of agreement reached in 2012. The coaches are being rebuilt and will at some point be painted into SMART colors. This is likely what you saw, renumbered and with DDOT logos blanked out.

With DDOT having recently acquired low-floor Gilligs of a very similar design to SMART's fleet, and now New Flyer equipment being sent to SMART, perhaps some forward thinking individual or team is planning for the days ahead when the two fleets might be more closely integrated and mechanics will need to know both kinds of equipment......well we can hope, right!!

[cramerro]

Lets put some things to rest here.

1. If the logos are whited out [[even if the stripes aren't), then I'd be pretty sure that someone [[church, private transport, party bus company) bought the bus at auction. You can run into this with ex-SMART small buses and vans that you see around with the stripes... I've even seen them in Lansing and Grand Ledge. Once the vehicles are retired based on age and/or mileage, they are auctioned off to the public.

2. SMART is also short drivers. SMARTs fixed route buses are older than DDOT's [[10 years average age) but are in relatviely working order due to efficient and effective preventive maintenance. The recent service cuts for SMART led to reduction in drivers, not service cuts due to bus shortage. DDOT is short drivers AND has many more buses than it needs, AND has trouble keeping its buses in good enough repair to meet the pullout needs even with fewer drivers.

3. SMART would not operate a DDOT bus unless it was re-labeled as such and legally transferred to SMART. To that end, SMART and DDOT separately own the buses in thier systems, and they each get a separate share of the regional funds. It comes to the region, but once a split is set the money is administered totally independent of one another. Currently there is no regional ownership of the money and/or buses.

4. The 40 coaches have not been sent to SMART. Grant funding was secured to do the rebuilding work but the transfer has not taken place nor have the buses been rebuilt yet.

The only DDOT service that goes outside the City that I know of is to Fairlane on Michigan/Ford and to Wonderland on Plymouth. I'd bet this bus was sold and was being driven away.

[professorscott]

The only DDOT service that goes outside the City that I know of is to Fairlane on Michigan/Ford and to Wonderland on Plymouth. I'd bet this bus was sold and was being driven away.

The Livernois and Schaefer buses go to River Rouge. Several lines go to Dearborn. The Crosstown goes to Dearborn Heights. The Woodward goes through Highland Park, as do several other routes. Several routes serve Southfield, albeit only the southeast corner. If the Gratiot bus is still pulling into Eastland, that's Harper Woods. A couple lines go through Hamtramck.

DDOT doesn't serve the suburbs as much as it once did, but it still has to make runs to where people's jobs are.

[DetroitPlanner]

The Crosstown goes to Dearborn Heights. The Woodward goes through Highland Park, as do several other routes. Several routes serve Southfield, albeit only the southeast corner. If the Gratiot bus is still pulling into Eastland, that's Harper Woods. A couple lines go through Hamtramck.

DDOT doesn't serve the suburbs as much as it once did, but it still has to make runs to where people's jobs are.

You're splitting hairs here. Crosstown serves Detroit Warren is the southern boundary of the City.

[professorscott]

You're splitting hairs here. Crosstown serves Detroit Warren is the southern boundary of the City.

Several of the Crosstown buses each weekday go to Warren and Telegraph which is squarely inside Dearborn Heights. I don't count going to the edge of the City; for example DDOT no longer serves any stops inside the Pointes.

[DetroitPlanner]

Several of the Crosstown buses each weekday go to Warren and Telegraph which is squarely inside Dearborn Heights. I don't count going to the edge of the City; for example DDOT no longer serves any stops inside the Pointes.

That is not far from the City's border at West Parkway. In addition it connects the route to another major crosstown route [[Telegraph 275). It would be asinine not to connect the two crosstown routes just so it ends at Hines Park.

[professorscott]

That is not far from the City's border at West Parkway. In addition it connects the route to another major crosstown route [[Telegraph 275). It would be asinine not to connect the two crosstown routes just so it ends at Hines Park.

Don't get me wrong; I wasn't opining, just stating a fact. I agree with you beyond what you said. It makes no sense for many of the buses to stop at the city limits just because of jurisdictional issues. The Woodward buses should go to downtown Royal Oak, the Gratiot buses should go into Roseville, and so forth. Get people to where the jobs are.

IMVHO the Woodward Light Rail project - the longer one - would've had a chance if the northern terminus would have been downtown Royal Oak. But the usual arguments prevailed.

[mtburb]

Well, here's an update to this situation:

1. Yeah, the bus number was definitely #1029. Therefore, this means this couldn't be one of the ones sent to SMART.
2. I thought I noticed the logos were removed, but that may be because I didn't look carefully.
3. I also didn't look at the destination signs, but I think they were deactivated.
4. Oddly enough, on that bus, there were still Joumana Kayrouz advertisements on the outside.

So do you now notice anything more strange?

[Honky Tonk]

Well, here's an update to this situation:

1. Yeah, the bus number was definitely #1029. Therefore, this means this couldn't be one of the ones sent to SMART.
2. I thought I noticed the logos were removed, but that may be because I didn't look carefully.
3. I also didn't look at the destination signs, but I think they were deactivated.
4. Oddly enough, on that bus, there were still Joumana Kayrouz advertisements on the outside.

So do you now notice anything more strange?

Not really, I see Joumana Kayrouz advertisements all over buses.