Westland considering banning the carnival due to gang fights.

**Newdetroit** · May-31-13, 12:38 AM

I was shocked to hear that there were gang fights at St. Mary's Fair in Orchard Lake.....Orchard Lake!!!! Same thing in Westland.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/22...-ban-carnivals

**stasu1213** · May-31-13, 04:56 AM

This could be part of that 'Flash Mob" strategy. Flash Mobs comes in all colors and seek to disrupt any positive events.

**313WX** · May-31-13, 05:23 AM

There must be something in the tap water.

While I agree the problem must be nipped in the bud, banning carnivals outright seems like such a knee-jerk reaction [[instead of just increasing the policing).

I was enough with that loon running Warren having the stupid knee-jerk reaction of banning all pet sales [[instead of simply increasing the monitoring of these stores), but then Westland doubles down with this.

**compn** · May-31-13, 06:17 AM

juggalos, the most dangerous carnival gang.

**Bham1982** · May-31-13, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Newdetroit

I was shocked to hear that there were gang fights at St. Mary's Fair in Orchard Lake.....Orchard Lake!!!! Same thing in Westland.

St. Marys Fair is surrounded by tough areas. Yes, tiny Orchard Lake [[population 2,000) is fancy, but Pontiac, Keego Harbor and Waterford are anything but. That fair has always attracted a rougher element.

**aj3647** · May-31-13, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

[[instead of just increasing the policing).

Police officers don't grow on trees, and they don't work for free. Every officer you put at that carnival is one less patrolling the streets. There are practical and financial considerations here, these municipalities already are cash-strapped and have seen their police forces shrink in size. How much can these small municipalities really handle when their carnivals act as magnets for dozens of gang members from Detroit or Pontiac?

**Zacha341** · May-31-13, 09:19 AM

Sad but some teens have a determined agenda to be disruptive for sport! Soon as the ruckus starts they are as many people fighting as there are phones 'held' up to capture the joy for upload to the sites that celebrate this mess: worldstarhiphop, youtube, tumblr. etc.

**313WX** · May-31-13, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Police officers don't grow on trees, and they don't work for free. Every officer you put at that carnival is one less patrolling the streets. There are practical and financial considerations here, these municipalities already are cash-strapped and have seen their police forces shrink in size. How much can these small municipalities really handle when their carnivals act as magnets for dozens of gang members from Detroit or Pontiac?

Oh please. Westland has relatively very little crime problems and 105 sworn officers.

If it can't delegate a few more officers for these type of events, then there's a problem with management. It can even request help from the WCSD or neighboring communities.

Royal Oak manages to handle its events just fine with only 64 sworn officers.

**Honky Tonk** · May-31-13, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Oh please. Westland has relatively very little crime problems and 105 sworn officers.

If it can't delegate a few more officers for these type of events, then there's a problem with management. It can even request help from the WCSD or neighboring communities.

Royal Oak manages to handle its events just fine with only 64 sworn officers.

It seems to be everyone's damn fault except the perpetrators.

**Eric_c** · May-31-13, 09:39 AM

If there are "gangs" in Westland, they're home-grown, not from Detroit. They may have roots there, but Inkster, Wayne and south Westland are more than capable of making their own trouble. Garden City, too.

**313WX** · May-31-13, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

It seems to be everyone's damn fault except the perpetrators.

With effective management, you can handle the perpetrators.

**Honky Tonk** · May-31-13, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

With effective management, you can handle the perpetrators.

With effective parenting, you wouldn't have to.

**Bham1982** · May-31-13, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Eric_c

If there are "gangs" in Westland, they're home-grown, not from Detroit. They may have roots there, but Inkster, Wayne and south Westland are more than capable of making their own trouble. Garden City, too.

I always thought Westland was a bit rough around the edges. I remember people calling it "Worstland". That whole area of suburban Wayne, while filled with perfectly decent people, does have some economic and social challenges.

**bailey** · May-31-13, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

With effective parenting, you wouldn't have to.

Until we have parental licensing to ensure all parents are effective, we need to manage society according to it's lowest common denominator.

**jackie5275** · May-31-13, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Police officers don't grow on trees, and they don't work for free. Every officer you put at that carnival is one less patrolling the streets.

As someone who works in law enforcement and has worked a number of church festivals, I can say you are mistaken. Regular duty officers don't work festivals/carnivals. It's reserve officers that work these events.

**313WX** · May-31-13, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

With effective parenting, you wouldn't have to.

Well since we can't take bats into the skulls of these parents to knock some sense into them, we can only do what's in our power.

Banning events outright that your citizens enjoy isn't fair when a few people are causing the problems. Instead, do what's necessary to keep those few vagrants away.

Using that logic, the fireworks show in Detroit should have been banned after those few perpetrators shot those people in Hart Plaza.

**Novine** · May-31-13, 10:00 AM

"St. Marys Fair is surrounded by tough areas. Yes, tiny Orchard Lake [[population 2,000) is fancy, but Pontiac, Keego Harbor and Waterford are anything but. That fair has always attracted a rougher element."

The gangs of Keego Harbor? Somedays, DY posters do their best impression of the Onion.

**jackie5275** · May-31-13, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

With effective parenting, you wouldn't have to.

I don't necessarily think the parenting has to be effective as much as it needs to be attentive. Although I suppose it could be argued that they go hand in hand.

**Honky Tonk** · May-31-13, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Well since we can't take bats into the skulls of these parents to knock some sense into them, we can only do what's in our power.

Banning events outright that your citizens enjoy isn't fair when a few people are causing the problems. Instead, do what's necessary to keep those few vagrants away.

Using that logic, the fireworks show in Detroit should have been banned after those few perpetrators shot those people in Hart Plaza.

Don't forget the muggings and purse snatchings. Detroit seems to be a bit more resilient in these matters then "those other guy's". But the crux of the problem is, it's NOT making any brownie points with outsiders. Then people wonder why did everyone leave? Must be the freeways.

**313WX** · May-31-13, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Don't forget the muggings and purse snatchings. Detroit seems to be a bit more resilient in these matters then "those other guy's". But the crux of the problem is, it's NOT making any brownie points with outsiders. Then people wonder why did everyone leave? Must be the freeways.

That's a strawman.

We're not talking about living in Westland or Detroit as a whole, rather just specific events that are hosted in these communities and attract huge crowds.

**Bham1982** · May-31-13, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

"St. Marys Fair is surrounded by tough areas. Yes, tiny Orchard Lake [[population 2,000) is fancy, but Pontiac, Keego Harbor and Waterford are anything but. That fair has always attracted a rougher element."

The gangs of Keego Harbor? Somedays, DY posters do their best impression of the Onion.

Have you been to Keego Harbor [[it's tiny, I bet most haven't)? It's about one-third trailer park.

I'm not saying Keego Harbor has gangs [[I have no idea whether that's true) or is some horrible place to live, but the original comment implied "Wow, in Orchard Lake of all places", when Orchard Lake is a tiny affluent community of 2,000 folks surrounded by 150,000 much less affluent folks in Pontiac, Waterford, and Keego.

**313WX** · May-31-13, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Have you been to Keego Harbor [[it's tiny, I bet most haven't)? It's about one-third trailer park.

I'm not saying Keego Harbor has gangs [[I have no idea whether that's true) or is some horrible place to live, but the original comment implied "Wow, in Orchard Lake of all places", when Orchard Lake is a tiny affluent community of 2,000 folks surrounded by 150,000 much less affluent folks in Pontiac, Waterford, and Keego.

Being less affluent doesn't neccessarily mean being more criminal [[and vice-versa).

**Honky Tonk** · May-31-13, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I always thought Westland was a bit rough around the edges. I remember people calling it "Worstland".

NEVER! It was always "Wasteland".

**Bham1982** · May-31-13, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Being less affluent doesn't neccessarily mean being more criminal [[and vice-versa).

I totally agree. But the implication was "how could there be gangs in hoity-toity Orchard Lake", when the St. Marys Fair isn't really in a generally hoity-toity area. Orchard Lake [[the community) is just the narrow perimeter of the lake itself, when everything inland is in a different community.

**Honky Tonk** · May-31-13, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

That's a strawman.

We're not talking about living in Westland or Detroit as a whole, rather just specific events that are hosted in these communities and attract huge crowds.

No it isn't. I worked Downtown when the mugging and purse snatching happened @ the fireworks. The women in the office were terrified to leave the building @ lunchtime. Now I work in the 'burbs. Just 2 minutes ago a co-worker announced "Are you kidding? I never go to Detroit". He was asked about the going Grand Prix. People equate these kinds in incidents WITH Detroit, and it doesn't help with it's reputation.