Duggan Vs Napoleon...

**jaytheory** · May-30-13, 05:14 PM

Among the city’s black voters, Napoleon leads Duggan 45%-36%, while among whites, Duggan leads Napoleon 60%-19%.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013052...uggan-Napoleon

Freep continues to bring up the race issue this time with data to poke holes in the standard theory

**Bham1982** · May-30-13, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by jaytheory

Freep continues to bring up the race issue this time with data to poke holes in the standard theory

What is the "standard theory"? That whites vote for whites, and blacks for blacks?

Isn't that what's happening here? Personally I think Napoleon is the better candidate [[I would not vote for a Ficano machine flunkie), but the historic trends seem to hold here.

**brizee** · May-31-13, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by jaytheory

Among the city’s black voters, Napoleon leads Duggan 45%-36%, while among whites, Duggan leads Napoleon 60%-19%.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013052...uggan-Napoleon

Freep continues to bring up the race issue this time with data to poke holes in the standard theory

I really don't think race matters nearly as much to Detroiters/black people as "common wisdom"/Facebook/newspaper comments would suggest.

From the various polls I've seen it's basically a dead race, with either candidate slightly ahead or even.

Even though I will be voting for Duggan, there is legitimate reason to not be for him.

-His moving/residency issue DOES look like carpetbagging.

-His involvement with the EAA and speech on Belle Isle/EM/DIA DOES seem contradictory.

-His running as successful businessman/turn around guy IS to the abject failure of Dave Bing Detroit is coming off of.

I could see Detroit voter having trouble casting his name to the ballot box. His being white being prohibitive is bullshit and pretty offensive.

I'm in for Duggan, and I'd vote for Critendon or Howze before Napoleon. I appreciate his answers to problems, but results matter more than words.

But on the race tip...

Would Detroit vote for a white mayor?

Detroiters: YES[[50%); NO[[25%); DON'T KNOW[[25%)

Oakland: YES[[15%); NO[[56%)

Macomb: YES[[20%); NO[[56%)

Black Statewide: YES[[43%); NO[[36%)

White Statewide: YES[[19%); NO[[40%)

It is amazing how we see ourselves and others. And vice-versa.

**313WX** · May-31-13, 09:09 PM

I don't care for either of them.

**firstandten** · May-31-13, 09:56 PM

I think some might view Duggan as a successful businessman like Bing. I see Duggan more as a machine politician linked more with McNamara than with Ficano. Having said that I don't necessarily think that's all bad. Machine politicians are viewed as corrupt but they get things done as well. I think Duggan can get things done. Might not be pretty or maybe some legal and ethical lines are being crossed but at this point I want results to basic city problems and at this point I have a little more faith in Duggan than Napoleon to get the job done.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-31-13, 09:57 PM

Someday, I hope Detroiters will vote for the best candidate, and will ignore things like carpetbagitis or skin color.

**corktownyuppie** · May-31-13, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

It is amazing how we see ourselves and others. And vice-versa.

Very profound statement. Also, we must keep in mind that statistics like those above, even if they were 100% accurate, are only accurate in that moment in time. They are subject to and likely to shift.

From the "long view" perspective, I think the next 2-3 generations are going to be interesting in watching racial attitudes shift as time goes on.

**coracle** · June-01-13, 06:50 AM

Duggan = 100% white.

Napoleon = 100% black.

Voters = about 16% "white".

Result = Duggan loss.

**Crumbled_pavement** · June-01-13, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Someday, I hope Detroiters will vote for the best candidate, and will ignore things like carpetbagitis

How come Detroit is the only place in this country that should not consider residency as a requirement for an elected position? Excuse me, but hasn't the POTUS been grilled for years over his place of birth? PLACE OF BIRTH <-- NOT CURRENT RESIDENCY, PLACE OF BIRTH!!!! Yet, I'm told never mind where a person lives, shut up and vote for who I'm told to vote for. Detroit already elected a resident of Lathrup Village as mayor, a lot of good that did us. How many more suburbanites do we have to elect to satisfy everyone?

I highly doubt someone could move in from Detroit and get elected mayor of Ann Arbor. I don't think anyone would lecture Ann Arbor residents about that though, and I myself, couldn't blame them either.

All that said, I'm with Brizee, I support Duggan. Still, it is fair to ask about his residency. Should we next allow Ohioans to vote in our city elections too?

**Danny** · June-01-13, 10:56 AM

Anyone who votes for Napoleon for Detroit Mayor is a FOOL! Just like anyone who voted for Kwame Kilpatrick is a FOOL Just like anyone who voted for Dave Bing is a FOOL! I glad I didn't voted for any of those FOOLS when I lived in Detroit long ago. I know Napoleon's his dirty little secrets for long ago with my family 25 years ago!

**sumas** · June-01-13, 11:01 AM

I don't trust polls. I am white in an all black neighborhood. Home owners and church goer types mostly 60 plus. They remember, as do I, what Detroit used to be. These people vote and most support Duggan. It is who votes that count in the long run. Not lip service from talking heads.

**Danny** · June-01-13, 11:11 AM

This person is right. Polls don't make the candidate win elections. People decide their leaders.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-01-13, 01:23 PM

I will vote for any candidate who will put forward a proposal to radically reform and shrink city government. Color is irrelevant. City government is effective only in stifling it's citizens. None of the current candidated excites me even a little bit. Barrow is a jailbird joke. Napoleon hasn't proven to be an effective crime fighter or administrator either as Police Chief or Sheriff. Duggan is tainted in my eyes by his tenure in the County and Airport administrations [[corrupt long before Ficano). I wish John Engler was running for mayor! [[Start skewering me now).

**Wesley Mouch** · June-01-13, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

I will vote for any candidate who will put forward a proposal to radically reform and shrink city government. Color is irrelevant. City government is effective only in stifling it's citizens. None of the current candidated excites me even a little bit. Barrow is a jailbird joke. Napoleon hasn't proven to be an effective crime fighter or administrator either as Police Chief or Sheriff. Duggan is tainted in my eyes by his tenure in the County and Airport administrations [[corrupt long before Ficano). I wish John Engler was running for mayor! [[Start skewering me now).

Skewer? Not at all. I like radicals.

Funny how the usual suspects are mostly in favor of the status quo, and its Republicans who are willing to be radicals? The world is funny.

**Danny** · June-03-13, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

Duggan = 100% white.

Napoleon = 100% black.

Voters = about 16% "white".

Result = Duggan loss.

So you're writing to us in this forum that a black city needs black leaders just as a white city needs white leaders? I don't think so. In the early 1990s Gary Indiana had a white mayor named KING! And he did just fine keeping Gary from going bankrupt! One day Detroit will get a white mayor. I'm sure this free country got a black president in the white house. Can we get a white mayor in the black house?

**coracle** · June-03-13, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

So you're writing to us in this forum that a black city needs black leaders just as a white city needs white leaders? I don't think so. In the early 1990s Gary Indiana had a white mayor named KING! And he did just fine keeping Gary from going bankrupt! One day Detroit will get a white mayor. I'm sure this free country got a black president in the white house. Can we get a white mayor in the black house?

How you can read " that a black city needs black leaders just as a white city needs white leaders" into my statement I just don't know. I stated what I think will happen because black is black and white is white. Best solution is to send Napoleon to the Isle of Elba [[oops that's already been done)
Incidently Danny I found a reference on the web that the black population of Gary reached 10% in 1920 when you say they had a white mayor. Currently the black population is about 84% and I bet they don't have a white mayor now.

**313WX** · June-03-13, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

I wish John Engler was running for mayor! [[Start skewering me now).

It's not worth it.

**jaytheory** · June-03-13, 03:32 PM

Looks like no one even got the point here, if the race happened at the time of this poll, last week. A larger percent of blacks would vote for a White Candidate than a the sahre of Whites that would vote for a black candidate, when both candidates are mediocre at best.

That leads me to the conclusion...

1, That is is white Detroit's that have the larger problem with skin color or they assume a different pigment of skin will just be a better pick because it is visible change, which I buy as a valid reason, it is america, and unfortunately race matters

Please follow my logic here. if Blacks poll about half for BN and half for MD that means only half of black voters could be polling on the race issue. if blacks are polling on the race issue only and Benny is a poor candidate that have plenty of other candidates to chose from whom are black.

At the end of the day this all means nothing except, to illustrate the point that if a GOOD candidate was there Detroiters would vote for him regardless of color.

**Detroitnerd** · June-03-13, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

Duggan = 100% white.

Napoleon = 100% black.

Voters = about 16% "white".

Result = Duggan loss.

Well, that's a simpleton's view of things. We have a long history, stretching back almost 150 years, of black people voting for white people.

I was particularly interested in the divide between perceptions of a white candidate's viability in Detroit illustrated by that poll. Apparently, white suburbanites feel that black people will not vote for white people. Maybe it's because they're projecting their own biases. Rizzos, anyone?

**antongast** · June-03-13, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Skewer? Not at all. I like radicals.

Funny how the usual suspects are mostly in favor of the status quo, and its Republicans who are willing to be radicals? The world is funny.

How about a straight-up honest-to-God radical, then? Someone like Grace Lee Boggs or General Baker? Why stop at run-of-the-mill mainstream Republicans? Shit, who else do you think is radical? David Brooks?

**maverick1** · June-03-13, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Well, that's a simpleton's view of things. We have a long history, stretching back almost 150 years, of black people voting for white people.

I was particularly interested in the divide between perceptions of a white candidate's viability in Detroit illustrated by that poll. Apparently, white suburbanites feel that black people will not vote for white people. Maybe it's because they're projecting their own biases. Rizzos, anyone?

Is that it? Maybe it is projection. The majority of people I hear saying "Black people will never vote for a White mayor" are White. I struggle to understand where this comes from. As if Black people didn't vote for Granholm, Clinton, Bush, Mahaffey, etc.

**Crumbled_pavement** · June-03-13, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by maverick1

Is that it? Maybe it is projection. The majority of people I hear saying "Black people will never vote for a White mayor" are White. I struggle to understand where this comes from. As if Black people didn't vote for Granholm, Clinton, Bush, Mahaffey, etc.

Is it really hard to understand? If they can paint us as being as racist as they are, then they can justify their own racist feelings against us. It's the reason they tell us we can't restrict the mayor's position to residents of Detroit, yet they'd never vote for a non-resident to be mayor of their own city. People can be so twisted that it's comical. And not to claim that every race of people doesn't have bias within their ranks, just sometimes it would be nice for people to actually admit their bias so we can all work to move past them.

Btw, can we add Maryann Mahaffey and Sheila Cockrel to the list of white people that black Detroiters would vote for? And can we also remind the bigots out there that it was rich white suburbanites that funded both of Kilpatrick's mayoral campaigns and even one of those rich white suburbanites gave Kilpatrick a nice job down in Texas and moved his family into a plush home in one of the richest suburbs of Dallas? Corruption knows no skin color, but he is always painted as a black man for some reason.

**Toka313** · June-03-13, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by jaytheory

Among the city’s black voters, Napoleon leads Duggan 45%-36%, while among whites, Duggan leads Napoleon 60%-19%.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013052...uggan-Napoleon

Freep continues to bring up the race issue this time with data to poke holes in the standard theory

I love how the difference is far far greater among white voters and not a SINGLE person has even brought up the idea that perhaps whites are voting for white candidates.

Let's all pretend like that doesn't happen, eh?

**Toka313** · June-03-13, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Is it really hard to understand? If they can paint us as being as racist as they are, then they can justify their own racist feelings against us. It's the reason they tell us we can't restrict the mayor's position to residents of Detroit, yet they'd never vote for a non-resident to be mayor of their own city. People can be so twisted that it's comical. And not to claim that every race of people doesn't have bias within their ranks, just sometimes it would be nice for people to actually admit their bias so we can all work to move past them.

Btw, can we add Maryann Mahaffey and Sheila Cockrel to the list of white people that black Detroiters would vote for? And can we also remind the bigots out there that it was rich white suburbanites that funded both of Kilpatrick's mayoral campaigns and even one of those rich white suburbanites gave Kilpatrick a nice job down in Texas and moved his family into a plush home in one of the richest suburbs of Dallas? Corruption knows no skin color, but he is always painted as a black man for some reason.

This. This person can hang out.

**Detroitnerd** · June-03-13, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Is it really hard to understand? If they can paint us as being as racist as they are, then they can justify their own racist feelings against us. It's the reason they tell us we can't restrict the mayor's position to residents of Detroit, yet they'd never vote for a non-resident to be mayor of their own city. People can be so twisted that it's comical. And not to claim that every race of people doesn't have bias within their ranks, just sometimes it would be nice for people to actually admit their bias so we can all work to move past them.

Btw, can we add Maryann Mahaffey and Sheila Cockrel to the list of white people that black Detroiters would vote for? And can we also remind the bigots out there that it was rich white suburbanites that funded both of Kilpatrick's mayoral campaigns and even one of those rich white suburbanites gave Kilpatrick a nice job down in Texas and moved his family into a plush home in one of the richest suburbs of Dallas? Corruption knows no skin color, but he is always painted as a black man for some reason.

.............