Whole Foods CEO, On Opening Detroit Store: 'We're Going After Elitism, Racism'

[cman710]

While it is a reasonable policy question to ask whether the government should be subsidizing certain grocery stores and not others, much of the discussion indicates that many critics of Whole Foods have actually never shopped at a WF store.

Yes, Whole Foods is more expensive than the garden-variety grocery store. However, I have found that the produce and meat sold there is of a much higher quality than what I see in a typical grocery store. So I think you are getting as good a value as at a typical grocery store. For example, near where I live, the regular grocery store carries Pink Lady apples and the Whole Foods also carries Pink Lady apples. The apples available at WF are consistently better quality. They have fewer bruises, seem fresher, and taste better. Am I really "paying more" if I am getting a better product? Not really.

Americans are often concerned with eating the cheapest food available, but this really makes no sense at all because what we eat is crucial for our health. How many of us buy the absolute cheapest cars? The cheapest phones? The cheapest clothes? Most middle class people make room in their budgets for cable and internet, which can run north of $100 per month, and most of us pay for a cell phone, an expense that was complete absent from our budgets 20 years ago.

The growing epidemics of obesity and diabetes reflect the poor health outcomes that have come with a reliance on "cheap" food. All those who can should try to eat more fresh, [[lowercase) whole foods, and WF presents one such source for buying such foods. That is a good thing.

Finally, these kinds of stores are essential for attracting a young, educated, tax-paying workforce in the city. We should be encouraging things that will attract these people because they are crucial for the city's health in the next twenty-five years and beyond.

[KJ5]

Maybe now we can get a Tomboy opened up in Bloomfield Hills. That place is a "ghetto desert". It's very difficult to find cheap malt liquor, Choreboys and inexpensive unhealthy food out there.
How's that for going after elitism?

[old guy]

The growing epidemics of obesity and diabetes reflect the poor health outcomes that have come with a reliance on "cheap" food. All those who can should try to eat more fresh, [[lowercase) whole foods, and WF presents one such source for buying such foods. That is a good thing.

Lot of reason there. It's true, why spend money on food that doesn't provide you with any, or very little food value. They are overpriced, and somewhat obnoxious, but so what? You guys are cheering for a Nike store opening up downtown.

[Honky Tonk]

Maybe now we can get a Tomboy opened up in Bloomfield Hills. That place is a "ghetto desert". It's very difficult to find cheap malt liquor, Choreboys and inexpensive unhealthy food out there.
How's that for going after elitism?

Don't forget Moon Pies! I bet many a Bloomfield child gets dropped off @ a private school, and has to go without a Moon Pie in their lunch box.

[Zacha341]

Parking's an adventure... not anticipating a grocery store, too narrow is that existing driveway lane NE of WF's surface lot! It barely accommodates two lanes of traffic.

The narrow lane requires a very sharp turn right or left to leave via that pass thru to Woodward in the middle of the block, or to the parking structure, the bank or other businesses, apartment with backside access from Woodward. Joy!

It's very tight for cars incoming for WF's 'surface parking' lot OR those leaving to access the parking structure, or just leaving period. And both of the Mack exit/ entrances are a zoo during rush hour. Don't even bother!

Along the backside of Woodward you have the Ellington apartments parking, with Starbucks, FedEx Office, etc. with their own parking lot and assigned spaces - already busy and narrow back there...

Now you have WF folks parking illegally coupled with the Bank of America traffic to go to the bank or access their two ATM machines!

I tried to go to HF around 4:30 PM yesterday - Lots of horn blowing and grid lock. I left. Will try again this afternoon off peak time.

[Detroitdave]

I was there Thursday and Friday ,Yeah the parking can be a problem I parked in the b of a, lot to aviod the mess , also while in the store I saw a lot of people I know shopping , but also some folks I would have never thought would shop in the city ?

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yeah, I bank at that B of A often and the lot is already small with no access to from Woodward unless you 'join' the melee of that tight corner turn with the increased traffic... I don't see the bank allowing people to park in their lot long term.

[Zacha341]

It's about 'selective' shopping, something I already do, shopping from Save-a-lot in Detroit, Aldies, YOBS, Savon, independent markets in Hamtramck to Holiday and Western in Royal Oak and Miejers here and their... I cannot afford to pay premium prices for organic produce overall at HFs per se, but produce of any kind is scarce in the city so I have other alternatives albeit not organic but better than NO vegetables.

There are few special items at WF I will by from time to time and a treat to spend on some of the other things. Perhaps they will run specials? To attract the shopper on a budget. Loyalty card? I hope I can get in there today to see for myself what they are doing over there...

The growing epidemics of obesity and diabetes reflect the poor health outcomes that have come with a reliance on "cheap" food. All those who can should try to eat more fresh, [[lowercase) whole foods, and WF presents one such source for buying such foods. That is a good thing.

Finally, these kinds of stores are essential for attracting a young, educated, tax-paying workforce in the city. We should be encouraging things that will attract these people because they are crucial for the city's health in the next twenty-five years and beyond.

[marshamusic]

Well, I went to the opening, and for sure they pulled out all the no elitism no racism stops. I actually took a vacation day to go, because I knew it would be a fun, relaxing day, seeing a bunch of friends, and I was right.

The media coverage that I saw in no way conveys the great crowds, and the overall conviviality and even downright joy of that day. I felt rather sheepish being so happy about an opening of a durned grocery store, but the import of this particular grocery store felt so significant; so respectful of us, that I had to cast away all my cynical lobs and just drink the organic kool aid.

There were, of course, speeches by the "big people"; opening prayers and a huge Avalon bread breaking ceremony. The lines snaked across the parking lot all day. It was a real "meet and greet" day, with folks we know coming from all over.

There were lots of tiny samples to eat, going from tent to tent, and hubby and I hung out talkin' junk and hangin' out.


After a while we meandered to the line to go inside the store - it was a line just because they were handing out the blue WFs bags at the entrance. The store is beautiful, as far as groceries stores can be beautiful, and the produce is a site to behold. But it was extremely crowded, and hard to actually "shop" though most folks had at least something in their baskets. I

t was mostly "a happening". The whole day was like a festival.


I believe that a prerequisite for hiring in that place must be personality plus. There was none of the urban surliness, gentrified superiority or hipster nonchalance that I often see in these parts; everyone was friendly, welcoming, NICE. That counts for much, right there. Many of the employees are black Detroiters and many of them I know as very cool people.

My husband and I posted up in the area where you can sit and eat; there's a subtle Detroit motif, tables made of old car hoods and windows with a lovely etched design that turns out to be the map of the Downtown - the center and the "spokes". Nicely done.

We met a huge, black dude who turned out to be the manager of the store, a really personable guy who flattered me much by knowing who I was before I was introduced, and telling me he had come to hear me talk at a ModelD event - and that he incorporated things that I had said into his considerations of the store. Cool.

There were a number of old suburban white ladies who we met, who said that they were regular shoppers from one of the suburban stores and had come to support the new store and the manager - whom they just love.

Hubby and I stayed in that spot for about 4 hours. LOL! We were described as "holding court", as usual, but really, we were eating some great deli fare, people watching, talking to folks, and checking out the vibe of the store.

In response to the poster above who said that it would be mostly "hipsters" shopping there, that was certainly not the case. In fact, the folks who I would stereotypically describe as hipsters were in the marked minority.

The customers were a complete mix of folks, with a decided number, if not the majority, black, mature folks. I saw a LOT of nurse/doctor types from the hospitals, with their cloggy shoes and hospital ID badges.

In fact, this WFs experience was probably a SHOCK for the hipster class. It is one of the few times that a large event in Midtown was genuinely diverse [[I don't mean that gentrified so-called diversity of 80-90% whites and 10-20% blacks - in the middle of the city, no less - but really diverse, something we don't often see).

There were also obviously poor folks there, because the entire, real neighborhood showed up - the residents of the various subsidized apartments and probably the Peterboro crowd too. Doubtless, many of them were there for the "free" stuff and the festivities; but I sure saw some in the check-out lines, too. But they were all welcomed and treated with respect.

I am surprised myself at the demographics that I encountered, the fact that it wasn't a "hipster" paradise. But I'm sure Whole Foods isn't. Contrary to some beliefs, Detroit is not all poor. There are still many numbers of working men and women who live here and welcome a nice place to buy good foodstuffs.

Although it may not be a place where younger folks with lots of kids will buy food, for older folks [[like me) it's likely no more expensive, in the long run, than shopping "cheap", in the hood. I also saw a number of mature black men in the store, with and without women.

So we had a great day, from 9-5, at a grocery store! LOL! My husband and I have so much fun, at so many events and things around here, but this one really tickled us at the sheer silliness and good spirit of it all.

Ok, so we knew that this was "opening day" and not an example of how it's going to be on an everyday basis. So we went back yesterday [[Friday, 2 days later) and though it's still in "opening" mode, it seemed much more normal. But still quite busy and the parking will be a bear.

Though I must say that the market is likely to attract so many of the folks who will not be coming by car, but walking from the Med Center and biking from around Downtown and Midtown.

Seeing this store in operation, however really made me see the "whole picture" as regards the Midtown development. Because it became clear to me that the purpose of this place and the development as a whole is to service/support/engender the development of the Medical Center, in many respects, as the new "industry" of our time here in Detroit.

So, even though I don't do a lot of grocery shopping in a lot of places all over, like Zacha, I'll still shop at Lafayette Foods, which is a very nice store, and, from time to time, at Ye Olde Butcher Shoppe, for impromtu special things, and at the Eastern Market. But I'm sure glad I now have Whole Foods as another store of choice; for one thing, I really did like the feel of "community" that I found there.

[[you know there's a lot of "left" criticism of the WF's owner for his statements about Prez. Obama and other subjects, but that's a whole 'nother story that's not mine to tell)

[Zacha341]

Thanks for such a grand post MM! I went to WF's Detroit today and once I got in there I could see this specific store is different than the one out on Orchard Lake Rd where I'd been a few times or the one in Troy. For one it is cheaper!! The staff is great; the cashier even laughing along with me when I mentioned the lower prices I was seeing on somethings unlike the "Whole PAYCHECK" saying...

Granted there's that 'first date' factor when a store first opens and all is new and sparkling, but I think Detroit's WF has the right thinking to have more sales and lower prices in some of it's items. I spoke to a staff person there formally of the A2 store and she said the Detroit location must have ample sales ongoing per the demographic. I saw some people from my area, all ages etc. They do take EBT, I asked as the checkout.

Unlike their other suburban locations very visible price points are abundant - printed shelf-talkers everywhere - pointing out sales! Before there was often a SNOB factor re. pricing at WF IMO, like if you had to 'ask' you needn't be there. Bold face type displays sales pricing and where bargains are. Kroger's thing for years with their easy to see price points and '10 for 10's been duplicated by others where they can. I saw some 3 for 5 items at WF today!

WF's use of space is outstanding. Kudos for the layout utilizing a smaller footprint of this location very well. Having been to larger WF's I knew they had the salad and food bar and what not. This one has the bakery too. And the fresh meat section is larger and better stocked than Ye Olde Butcher Shoppe... That's is going to hurt YOBS a bit I think but they will adapt.

Everything is smaller compared to the Troy store but you have it. Just smaller areas. I did get a community feeling withstanding the politics. Right now they have a great sale on 32 oz. bottled organic juice only 99 cent thru Monday or so.

It will be interesting to see how it goes... indeed the buzz is all around the area. University market will be impacted for sure.

I am surprised myself at the demographics that I encountered, the fact that it wasn't a "hipster" paradise. But I'm sure Whole Foods isn't. Contrary to some beliefs, Detroit is not all poor. There are still many numbers of working men and women who live here and welcome a nice place to buy good foodstuffs.

Although it may not be a place where younger folks with lots of kids will buy food, for older folks [[like me) it's likely no more expensive, in the long run, than shopping "cheap", in the hood. I also saw a number of mature black men in the store, with and without women.

So we had a great day, from 9-5, at a grocery store! LOL! My husband and I have so much fun, at so many events and things around here, but this one really tickled us at the sheer silliness and good spirit of it all.

[canuck]

Great posts Marsha, and Zacha!

[corktownyuppie]

Great posts Marsha, and Zacha!

Agreed!

I think you'll also see a major influx once the undergrads from Wayne and the med/law grad student population are back for school.

I do agree about it being diverse. It actually feels like what a real city should feel like. I saw the doorman from the Atheneum waiting in line in front doctor or nurse from DMC. This will be good in a lot of different ways.

[Spartan]

I went today and enjoyed the experience, I'll definitely be back at some point. I hopped over there after going to Eastern Market for my veggies and fruits. I passed on limes because they were pricey and didn't look too good, and they were actually much cheaper at WF, which was a pleasant surprise.

The produce looked to be fresh and well-stocked. Aside from Honeybee, I often have a hard time finding high quality produce with a good selection, so this is definitely great.

They had a great cheese selection, as I expected. I picked up a couple different versions. I bought some goat cheese, which was on sale and cheaper than the same product at Honeybee that I bought a few weeks back.

It was crowded to be sure, but I actually didn't have too much trouble getting around. Parking looked like it was fairly tight, but it was nice to actually have some bike racks to use unlike most of the city. One thing I noticed is the in-and-out flow of the entrance is quite congested. This may ease up some as the "honeymoon phase" wears off and fewer people are in the store, but it was a bit annoying. There's only one door, and the flow with the carts and people entering/exiting is a bit awkward. Hopefully it improves with sparsity, but if not they may want to explore alternates to improve the situation.

I'm certainly glad to have WF in town and I will likely bike up there on occasion. It makes me excited for Papa Joe's to come downtown. Hopefully this doesn't hurt YOBS too much. I saw it a bit as a larger version of it.

[marshamusic]

...... Hopefully this doesn't hurt YOBS too much. I saw it a bit as a larger version of it.

Yeah; I've been puzzling about the two stores; I see that YOBS has a HUGE "OPEN" sign outside the door now; maybe it's been there for a while, but for sure I only just noticed it. Like they now have to do this to get folks in the door, before they pass them to go to WFs.

You know, I see WFs as a MUCH larger version of YOBS, and therein lies the illusion that allows me to suspend hesitation and act like I'm just shopping at a "regular" grocery store.

YOBS is small, exquisite and boutique like - so that I am cautious and aware of spending too much on all that "special" stuff.

WFs is so big [[now, maybe not as big as their suburban stores, but certainly bigger than I expected) that I'm in "grocery shop" mode when I walk through the door - until I get to the check out line and BAM! I've spent 60 dollars for a paper bag of groceries.

I do want YOBS to survive, for having whatever it took to place their stake in the ground and take the risk first.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yeah there are few pastry items at YOBS I am addicted too... yummy. But the meat section always seemed less than the name of the store indicated.

I still doubt I will be doing any major, big produce or meat shopping at YOBS or WF. I need the option of more volume oriented shopping for my juicing needs and heavy produce use from stores like Al-Hammarim in Hammy or Greenland in Dearborn where I can come out of these with three bags of produce for under $15! 10 lemons for a dollar sale! No one seems to be able to do deals like that outside of Eastern Market or the local mom and pops and other markets in east Dearborn... Hamtramck.....

Then there are some veggies it is said you should never eat unless organic so.... that is for WF's or Trader Joes as one can afford them.

Does anyone do Randazzos on Telegraph and Joy Rd. or the east side? I used to but find their produce goes bad really fast...

[Spartan]

Yeah; I've been puzzling about the two stores; I see that YOBS has a HUGE "OPEN" sign outside the door now; maybe it's been there for a while, but for sure I only just noticed it. Like they now have to do this to get folks in the door, before they pass them to go to WFs.

You know, I see WFs as a MUCH larger version of YOBS, and therein lies the illusion that allows me to suspend hesitation and act like I'm just shopping at a "regular" grocery store.

YOBS is small, exquisite and boutique like - so that I am cautious and aware of spending too much on all that "special" stuff.

WFs is so big [[now, maybe not as big as their suburban stores, but certainly bigger than I expected) that I'm in "grocery shop" mode when I walk through the door - until I get to the check out line and BAM! I've spent 60 dollars for a paper bag of groceries.

I do want YOBS to survive, for having whatever it took to place their stake in the ground and take the risk first.

Yeah, I see WF as much more of a "destination" shopping store, whereas YOBS is more of an everyday place. I like stores that are small for daily/semi-daily shopping since it is easy to find things and the lines are short [[and like you said, it's easy to get carried away at the larger stores). I'll probably go to each a bit, but if I lived in Midtown or passed YOBS between work and home I'd probably go there more often. Living downtown though, I tend to have to purchase groceries a week at a time more often than not, so a place like Whole Foods is great for that.

[compn]

@zacha: i shop at the randazzos at tel+joy. also the joyview meats and pho lucky noodle soup on the other side of tele are excellent. randazzos' produce does go bad quickly, but that encourages me to eat more fresh foods. it is much cheaper than krogers/meijers/ walmart/joes produce / westborn market so its a tradeoff.

i drove by that whole foods yesterday [[why didnt anyone tell me it was at woodward and mack?). i've been to that starbucks on the corner before, and starbucks usually takes that whole parking lot, so i have no idea where anyone would park.

my friend was upset at WF putting in a market there right on wayne state territory and having it almost inside of the hospital. he didnt think it was 'downtown' enough or far enough 'in detroit'. he said whats the point in having a grocery near eastern market ?

its only 5 miles from highland park glory market too.

[Honky Tonk]

@zacha: i shop at the randazzos at tel+joy. also the joyview meats and pho lucky noodle soup on the other side of tele are excellent. randazzos' produce does go bad quickly, but that encourages me to eat more fresh foods. it is much cheaper than krogers/meijers/ walmart/joes produce / westborn market so its a tradeoff.

i drove by that whole foods yesterday [[why didnt anyone tell me it was at woodward and mack?). i've been to that starbucks on the corner before, and starbucks usually takes that whole parking lot, so i have no idea where anyone would park.

my friend was upset at WF putting in a market there right on wayne state territory and having it almost inside of the hospital. he didnt think it was 'downtown' enough or far enough 'in detroit'. he said whats the point in having a grocery near eastern market ?

its only 5 miles from highland park glory market too.

The same point that Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart, and all the other megabux stores have when they move in to a neighborhood, to be the last brick and mortar left standing.

[corktownyuppie]

@zacha: i shop at the randazzos at tel+joy. also the joyview meats and pho lucky noodle soup on the other side of tele are excellent. randazzos' produce does go bad quickly, but that encourages me to eat more fresh foods. it is much cheaper than krogers/meijers/ walmart/joes produce / westborn market so its a tradeoff.

i drove by that whole foods yesterday [[why didnt anyone tell me it was at woodward and mack?). i've been to that starbucks on the corner before, and starbucks usually takes that whole parking lot, so i have no idea where anyone would park.

my friend was upset at WF putting in a market there right on wayne state territory and having it almost inside of the hospital. he didnt think it was 'downtown' enough or far enough 'in detroit'. he said whats the point in having a grocery near eastern market ?

its only 5 miles from highland park glory market too.

Overflow parking is available [[at no cost) at the parking structure directly north.

I'm sorry your friend is disappointed in the location. Whole Foods [[as do most retailers) choose a location to be convenient and close to its target demographic. Since hospitals tend to employ many people with money, and since college students tend to be poor "on paper" but do a lot of discretionary spending, I think Whole Foods was catering to them as a primary demo.

Whole Foods isn't really competing with Eastern Market or Glory Market or even Kroger or Farmer Jack.

[Zacha341]

Depends on who you talk to relative to where downtown starts. Some feel WSU area is downtown. Hah! I'll have to try to soup place near Randazzos. Thanks!

I have gone to Glory up in Highland Park. Their produce is not too great and only occupies about 20% of the store so you get the priority! But the store is not bad overall and it stays open until 10:00 PM! That's is incredible considering it's in Highland Park!! Had to run there sometimes for some last minute meat to put on the grill one evening.

Parking at WF is a grid-lock trip as I outlined in a previous thread. That one pathway to or from the store or to the parking structure is a bit much... I will be going there off-peak times to avoid some of that drama.

The local withstanding constricted parking and movement of cars is cool IMO. They'll get the hospital crowd, Midtown, WSU, cass corridor, downtowners, near east suburbs and more.

@zacha: i shop at the randazzos at tel+joy. also the joyview meats and pho lucky noodle soup on the other side of tele are excellent. randazzos' produce does go bad quickly, but that encourages me to eat more fresh foods. it is much cheaper than krogers/meijers/ walmart/joes produce / westborn market so its a tradeoff.

i drove by that whole foods yesterday [[why didnt anyone tell me it was at woodward and mack?). i've been to that starbucks on the corner before, and starbucks usually takes that whole parking lot, so i have no idea where anyone would park.

my friend was upset at WF putting in a market there right on wayne state territory and having it almost inside of the hospital. he didnt think it was 'downtown' enough or far enough 'in detroit'. he said whats the point in having a grocery near eastern market ?

its only 5 miles from highland park glory market too.

[313WX]

^^^ Yeah there are few pastry items at YOBS I am addicted too... yummy. But the meat section always seemed less than the name of the store indicated.

I still doubt I will be doing any major, big produce or meat shopping at YOBS or WF. I need the option of more volume oriented shopping for my juicing needs and heavy produce use from stores like Al-Hammarim in Hammy or Greenland in Dearborn where I can come out of these with three bags of produce for under $15! 10 lemons for a dollar sale! No one seems to be able to do deals like that outside of Eastern Market or the local mom and pops and other markets in east Dearborn... Hamtramck.....

Then there are some veggies it is said you should never eat unless organic so.... that is for WF's or Trader Joes as one can afford them.

Does anyone do Randazzos on Telegraph and Joy Rd. or the east side? I used to but find their produce goes bad really fast...

I'm in Osborn, so I do shop at Randazzo's on 7 Mile and Outer Drive when I don't make the trip out to one of the Kroger stores in Grosse Pointe.

I see a lot of folks from the suburbs going there to shop for their fruits and vegetables too.

Personally, I think the fruit and vegetables are pretty good. I always get stuff such as Apples, Bananas, Cantaloupe and Grapes from there. Of course IMO, truly organic produce is supposed to rotten fast. I would be worried if it didn't.

I hate shopping at Mike's Fresh Market on 7 Mile and Gratiot [[formerly Kroger), aside from getting the occasional juice and yogurt. The store smells, there's too much loitering and the fruit is rotten. And this was supposed to be one of the nicer stores in the city. The only thing I get from there is my meat, and that's only because they're the best place nearby that sells decent meat at a reasonable price.

The Glory Supermarket on 8 Mile and Groesbeck sucks, plain and simple.

Now if I shop at either of the newly opened stores in Detroit [[Meijer vs. Whole Foods), it would be Meijer. My reason are because they have a lot more parking, the food is more reasonable and it's easier to get there from Osborn [[8 Mile) versus Mack and John R. That said, since this Meijer is built similar to the typical suburban stores [[like the Kroger was on 7 Mile and Gratiot), I especially worry about this one in terms of shrinkage and loitering problems versus Whole Foods.