Duggan opposes widening of highways.

[brizee]

Not that he has/will have a ton of say in the matter.

But he's the only candidate/sitting candidate that has said anything on the subject one way or another.

[313WX]

To be perfectly honest, I don't trust Duggan as far as I can throw them [[in other words, I don't trust him at all).

[rb336]

Widening I-75 for 20 miles could not be done for $580 million - or roughly $2.9 million/mile. That cost is, essentially, the bare minimum for ONE lane, assuming the roadway is running on the surface like I-94 does west of AA. It ignores the cost of re-engineering bridges, obtaining land, building significant portions at an artificial level [[elevated or in a ditch) and creating a drainage system, not to mention the very high cost of obtaining the necessary right-of-ways and the inevitable lawsuits.

[Crumbled_pavement]

To be perfectly honest, I don't trust Duggan as far as I can throw them [[in other words, I don't trust him at all).

Duggan is the only candidate who has potential to bring Detroit back. Not saying he will do it, as reaching potential is different than having potential. But still, he's the only one with the potential to do it.

[jtf1972]

At least someone out there is voicing opposition.

[313WX]

Duggan is the only candidate who has potential to bring Detroit back. Not saying he will do it, as reaching potential is different than having potential. But still, he's the only one with the potential to do it.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[poobert]

Not that he has/will have a ton of say in the matter.

But he's the only candidate/sitting candidate that has said anything on the subject one way or another.

Honestly, the level of discourse of Detroit politicians rarely ever reaches such loftiness as articulating policy or a particular stance on an issue. You mostly just hear "We need lower crime and more jobs!" No shit, assholes.

It's like Bing's demolition plan. We need to tear down x amount of houses by the end of term whatever. Yeah, well, then what? How will that ultimately bring the city back?

It's scary that Duggan raises the bar simply by saying we need to not widen freeways and do more than just tear down houses. Sad but true.

The talent/brain power pool here has just been shrinking so rapidly for so many years.

[Wesley Mouch]

Honestly, the level of discourse of Detroit politicians rarely ever reaches such loftiness as articulating policy or a particular stance on an issue. You mostly just hear "We need lower crime and more jobs!" No shit, assholes.

..snip...It's scary that Duggan raises the bar simply by saying we need to not widen freeways and do more than just tear down houses. Sad but true. ...snip...

I too am tired of politicians saying we need 'jobs'. Duh. We all know that. The question of course is how to get them. That's the true challenge.

On topic, I am guessing that Duggan is opposing freeway construction because it plays well with Detroit residents. I can't imagine that he really opposes money being spent in Detroit. But he needs issues that show that he's a real Detroiter. Even better, its an issue he has no control over. So if elected, he can still say he opposed the widening -- but will still get the benefits.

[MidTownMs]

To be perfectly honest, I don't trust Duggan as far as I can throw them [[in other words, I don't trust him at all).

Who do you trust?

[313WX]

Who do you trust?

Very few of the people at the helm.

I'm not impressed with any of the mayoral candidates quite frankly.

[stasu1213]

We wont have to widen highway if the same amount of money is used to put light rail systems throughout Southeast Michigan especially Detroit. The would result in less traffic on the vehicle traffic on the freeways leaving more spaces for trucks to use

[Honky Tonk]

Very few of the people at the helm.

I'm not impressed with any of the mayoral candidates quite frankly.

I'm with you there. SSDE, [[same shit, different election) Who do you want? Twittle Dee or Twittle Dum? I wish Rashida Tlaib would run. She seems determined, I have faith in her.

[DetroitPlanner]

We wont have to widen highway if the same amount of money is used to put light rail systems throughout Southeast Michigan especially Detroit. The would result in less traffic on the vehicle traffic on the freeways leaving more spaces for trucks to use

Yes you will. The freeway needs work. Both the I-75 and M-10 interchanges are dangerous and do not operate well. The bridges are too low to meet interstate spec, hence the unusually large number of bridge hits on them.

Secondly, you just can't spent money earmarked towards maintaining and improving the national highway system on transit. Each penny must be spent on a core set of criteria. MAP-21 [[federal transportation legislation) enforces this. With the amount of road needs in the state, MDOT would just move this money elsewhere, probably to widen even more freeways in Grand Rapids. Needs are great throughout the transportation system and since needs far outstrip revenue to address them, it makes moving money between silos even more difficult.

Finally, this region's biggest obstacle is not the capital side of transit, but the operating side. It costs a lot of money to operate these systems. Power and labor ain't free. This region is not willing to pay for it.

[ghettopalmetto]

Yes you will. The freeway needs work. Both the I-75 and M-10 interchanges are dangerous and do not operate well. The bridges are too low to meet interstate spec, hence the unusually large number of bridge hits on them.

Geometric reconfiguration of an interchange does not require widening of the freeway. Unless you work for MDOT, where widening is always required. You're smart enough to know this, Planner.

Secondly, you just can't spent money earmarked towards maintaining and improving the national highway system on transit. Each penny must be spent on a core set of criteria. MAP-21 [[federal transportation legislation) enforces this. With the amount of road needs in the state, MDOT would just move this money elsewhere, probably to widen even more freeways in Grand Rapids. Needs are great throughout the transportation system and since needs far outstrip revenue to address them, it makes moving money between silos even more difficult.

Nobody is suggesting as such. But it is true that the Michigan Constitution caps transit funding to 10% of all state transportation funding. The State of Michigan makes it that much harder to put together matching funds necessary to obtain federal transit dollars. MDOT looks at its projects in isolation, and not as a holistic system.

Finally, this region's biggest obstacle is not the capital side of transit, but the operating side. It costs a lot of money to operate these systems. Power and labor ain't free. This region is not willing to pay for it.

Just as it is with roads. MDOT can always find money to build new freeways and widen existing roads. Upkeep? Forget it. Asphalt and crack sealer ain't free. This region is not willing to pay for it.

There are real challenges to transit funding in Michigan [[greatest among them, a DOT stuck in the 1950s). You don't have to make it that much more difficult by simply conceding it as a lost cause.

[DetroitPlanner]

Geometric reconfiguration of an interchange does not require widening of the freeway. Unless you work for MDOT, where widening is always required. You're smart enough to know this, Planner.

The point I am making is you will be spending billions on this roadway for a reconstruction in order to fix many problems [[not the least of this is that it is heavily congested most of the day). To not address this now means never addressing it. Short of building another crosstown freeway through mid-town [[which is not a proposal) there are few other options. Much of this congestion is being caused by truck traffic and we are an industrial town. If we don't address what is important to job growth some other region will.

Grand Rapids used nearly all of their ARRA money to widen freeways. In addition, they have also built more lane miles per capita than we have yet many on this board holds them as the place we should admire and has its economic act together, they did this with great support. http://michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,7-15...9--RSS,00.html
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi..._us_131_i.html

[ghettopalmetto]

The point I am making is you will be spending billions on this roadway for a reconstruction in order to fix many problems [[not the least of this is that it is heavily congested most of the day). To not address this now means never addressing it. Short of building another crosstown freeway through mid-town [[which is not a proposal) there are few other options. Much of this congestion is being caused by truck traffic and we are an industrial town. If we don't address what is important to job growth some other region will.

The previous studies done [[by Corradino, I believe), showed that the $1 billion+ freeway widening would save the typical driver a whopping 30-60 seconds. Do the math.

That doesn't even consider the effects of induced traffic, which, if you've ever driven in the Atlanta area [[up to 15-lane freeway widths) or the 401 outside Toronto [[20 lanes), you know damn well that freeway expansion and widening doesn't solve congestion.

[stasu1213]

Michigan is willing to spend money on widening the freeways. I would love to see money from somewhere be used on Woodward avenue from Temple to the Boston Edison area where Woodward had been repaved a couple of years ago. It is a damn shame that a main thoroughfair in the city is so need of repaving. Why has it not been taken care of? I don't see any signs of construction of the light rail happening this spring or summer. Do commuters have to drive along Woodward another couple of years destroying the suspensions on their cars and trucks while the city and state do studies for another couple of years. This is why Detroit and Michigan are a big joke. It is not the lack of federal and local funds that causes that put the city and state in the condition that they are in but the misuse of funds by incompetent or paid off elected officials and planners

[DetroitPlanner]

Michigan is willing to spend money on widening the freeways. I would love to see money from somewhere be used on Woodward avenue from Temple to the Boston Edison area where Woodward had been repaved a couple of years ago. It is a damn shame that a main thoroughfair in the city is so need of repaving. Why has it not been taken care of? I don't see any signs of construction of the light rail happening this spring or summer. Do commuters have to drive along Woodward another couple of years destroying the suspensions on their cars and trucks while the city and state do studies for another couple of years. This is why Detroit and Michigan are a big joke. It is not the lack of federal and local funds that causes that put the city and state in the condition that they are in but the misuse of funds by incompetent or paid off elected officials and planners

Paving was put off to coordinate it with Light Rail [[now M-1). It is going to begin this year. Don't blame it on elected officials, blame it on the advocates for screaming about whether it should be in the center of the roads or on the side.

Using induced demand is a silly arguement. Thats like saying if we build more transit then we will need to build even more, and we can't afford to operate a system of that size.
http://pubsindex.trb.org/view.aspx?id=506975

[Honky Tonk]

blame it on the advocates for screaming about whether it should be in the center of the roads or on the side.

I personally think the paving should be the whole road, not just the center or the side.....

[Wesley Mouch]

Since we've abandoned the thread title in favor of a discussion of freeways, I propose we widen I94 even more, thus enabling complete removal of Fisher Fwy [[and Chrysler below I94).

Since this is going to happen anyway, you might as well do it fully so it can carry all the thru truck traffic.

[DetroitPlanner]

I personally think the paving should be the whole road, not just the center or the side.....

LOL The road will be reconstructed with improvements to the base. Without knowing where the rail lines would be, it would mean tearing it up and reinforcing the base if it was done when it was supposed to be done, leading to even more people screaming about MDOT constantly closing roads.

[erikd]

I personally think the paving should be the whole road, not just the center or the side.....

LOL! Great catch.

[Detroitnerd]

It is absolutely remarkable that, in this day and age, anybody is arguing for expanding freeways through urban areas to "ease congestion."

It is especially distressing that this point is being made by somebody with the word "planner" in their handle.

As somebody wittier than me pointed out: Expanding freeways to ease congestion is like loosening your belt to lose weight.

[canuck]

Good luck with stopping that! A major reconstruction of the A720 into downtown Montreal is set to begin in a while and despite the city recommending a smaller footprint, the provincial government wants a wider highway berth instead. Go figure.

[DetroitPlanner]

I will mostly side with dissenters for the sake of discussion. There is a lot that goes into making these decisions. I would suggest that those who want to comment on this topic read the EIS.