Detroit's pension boards to send 4 trustees to Hawaii

[compn]

http://www.freep.com/article/2013051...esort-Honolulu

whats another $22k ?

[Spartan]

That's ridiculous. $22K? Are they staying for 2 months?

[TKshreve]

22K cherry on top please.

[Blueidone]

What gets to me is why these groups who hold the conference always seem to hold them in these exotic places, or where gambling is the major draw to the location.

I used to belong to a group that held such annual conferences. Originally, they were held in major US cities in the Midwest, as it was a "Midwest" organization. Then the powers-that-be decided it would be more fun to go to places that were a "bigger draw" which meant it was more expensive to travel, stay and eat.

These were not municipal conferences, but were still paid for by the smaller organizations, who obtained their funding from their individual members. So, similar to taxpayers, the little guy was footing the bill for these lavish junkets.

I believe that people need education sometimes to perform their tasks, whether paid or volunteer. What I don't believe is that the education has to take place in Hawaii, Las Vegas, Puerto Rico, New York, or on a cruise ship. These conferences should be held on a local basis, maybe at a college campus. The participants can stay in a local Holiday Inn.

I know from personal experience that most of the attendees at such things may attend one or two seminars over a week, but for the most part they are vacationing on someone else's money.

[Hermod]

It isn't just Detroit that does it. It seems there is a general consensus everywhere that politicians and gummint employees everywhere are entitled to these boondoggle conferences and seminars as a part of their comensation package. Much as I might rail at the way Detroit is governed, this goes way beyond Detroit.

We need the taxpayers to start demanding that, if these conferences and seminars are needed, they are held in places like Deshler, Ohio or Lander, Wyoming.

[Hypestyles]

how does this square with the federal investigation that's going on?

[jackie5275]

What gets to me is why these groups who hold the conference always seem to hold them in these exotic places, or where gambling is the major draw to the location....I believe that people need education sometimes to perform their tasks, whether paid or volunteer. What I don't believe is that the education has to take place in Hawaii, Las Vegas, Puerto Rico, New York, or on a cruise ship. These conferences should be held on a local basis, maybe at a college campus. The participants can stay in a local Holiday Inn.

No doubt about that. In a former department, as a grunt worker, I had to check for funds available in the budget for any kind of expenditures. The travel requests that came through were for upper & middle management members who went on 3 or 4 of these "conferences" a year to nice places like Boyne Mountain, the Grand Hotel or Mission Point on Mackinac Island, Grand Traverse Resort, Kalahari Resort, etc. Not necessarily out of the Great Lakes area, but still pretty nice & the most expensive hotels around for the conference. It was nothing for 20 some folks from our dept to attend & take their families with them. Now that I'm in middle management, travel's been cut down due to "budgetary constraints". This means I could be allowed a half day seminar if one was held for a job related topic held on Zug Island.

[Honky Tonk]

No doubt about that. In a former department, as a grunt worker, I had to check for funds available in the budget for any kind of expenditures. The travel requests that came through were for upper & middle management members who went on 3 or 4 of these "conferences" a year to nice places like Boyne Mountain, the Grand Hotel or Mission Point on Mackinac Island, Grand Traverse Resort, Kalahari Resort, etc. Not necessarily out of the Great Lakes area, but still pretty nice & the most expensive hotels around for the conference. It was nothing for 20 some folks from our dept to attend & take their families with them. Now that I'm in middle management, travel's been cut down due to "budgetary constraints". This means I could be allowed a half day seminar if one was held for a job related topic held on Zug Island.

Zug can be quite nice in the summer, depending on which way the wind is blowing, of course.

[Novine]

"The travel requests that came through were for upper & middle management members who went on 3 or 4 of these "conferences" a year to nice places like Boyne Mountain, the Grand Hotel or Mission Point on Mackinac Island, Grand Traverse Resort, Kalahari Resort, etc. Not necessarily out of the Great Lakes area, but still pretty nice & the most expensive hotels around for the conference."

There's very few locations in the state that can accommodate large conferences. Most people stay at the hotels connected to the conference center for ease of travel, etc. Not surprisingly, no one is building conference centers in locations that don't also attract tourist traffic or other visitors to keep the hotel full when the conferences are not in session.

[cla1945]

Inexcuseable bullshit.

[Wesley Mouch]

Its a mistake to withdraw from your trade associations in hard times. I would argue that Detroit's pension funds needs to be engaged with their peers more than ever now. This conference is hosted by National Conference on Public Employee Retirement Systems [[NCPERS). If there's a mistake here, its on NCPERS part. Bad time for Hawaii conference. Terrible decision.

But I want Detroit's pension officials to be with their peers and learn what's going on out there.

[[I was appalled at the local official who said this was 'within budget' and therefore OK. Tell you much about the attitude. I'd rather she said: I'm offended that its in Hawaii and hate spending that money... but I want our staff to be their best.)

The more senior you are in an organization, the less likely you are to attend sessions. Doesn't mean conference is worthless. Meeting your peers and having resources out there is invaluable. Don't knock them for doing what they should be doing.

[mwilbert]

I don't have a problem with people going to appropriate conferences, but meetings of US public officials should probably not happen in Hawaii, because the remote location increases the costs and time of travel.

Aside from the reasons already discussed, people hold conferences in attractive locations because it is easier to get people to come to them, and you need attendees for a conference to be successful, either practically or financially.

[Downriviera]

As hizzoner Coleman Young would say, "Aloha Motherfuckers!".

[Cincinnati_Kid]

As hizzoner Coleman Young would say, "Aloha Motherfuckers!".

Well played.

[Meddle]

They say they're going for 'training'

Doesn't everyone need to know how to do the Hula?

[Meddle]

Detroit — Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr may place more safeguards to ensure Detroit's pension trustees are spending money wisely in the wake of a scheduled trip by some trustees to a conference in Hawaii.

Orr's spokesman, Bill Nowling, on Friday said Orr is "very concerned" about the trip and he's weighing his next steps, including seeking the removal of board members who attend. The six-day trip began Friday.

"This trip shows a monumental lack of judgment and it raises serious questions about how the board's exercising its fiduciary responsibility to mange the funds prudently," Nowling said.

"We are researching all of the emergency manager's legal options regarding the boards, including the removal of individual members involved in the trip."

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...428/1409/rss36

[Packman41]

Funny, but why did I not see them as presenters for Session A on Monday afternoon, May 20?

Avoiding a Front Page Scandal at Your Pension Fund: Learning by Example

You can’t make this shit up – from the NCPERS Conference Agenda
http://www.ncpers.org/Files/2013%20Final%20Agenda.pdf

Seems like once a month for the past half dozen years either the Free Press or the News is reporting a new scandal, indictment or conviction involving the two pension funds.

Right after Session A they can roll into the Lunch & Lecture Series:
Don’t Take the Lava Rocks; Old Hawaiian Legends

So, once lunch is over at 2:30 they have the rest of the day to “network.” And this goes on for 4 days.

This is a straight-up junket. They will learn nothing useful there or anywhere else. Take a look at who is attending and ask yourself what kind of background to they have actually understand what they are hearing?

John Riehl is the ex-president of AFSCME Local 207 – what is his education or work experience to discern the proper investments to make for a billion dollar pension fund?

Cedric Cook might have some appreciation for what is being said, but since his BA in Business, he earned an MA in Human Resources and is working on a PhD in “Multiculturalism.”

Edsel Jenkins is the Deputy Fire Commissioner and has probably been hosed more than once by the slick-talking real estate advisor that swindled money from the fund.

Angela James retired as a Police Lieutenant at the age of 51 with 25 years of service. So arresting bad guys makes her an investment analyst/professional?

For them, the definition of “investment due diligence” means “I had a power lunch in that town.”

They don’t even have the common sense to stay on the down-low while the FBI is still conducting an investigation of the corrupt practices promoted by the fund’s own attorney.

[Dumpling]

I checked the MERS most recent financial report. That board appeared to
have spent $69,000 for "communication" [[travel). Also, the General Retirement System representatives Mr. Riehl and Mr. Cook were elected from a field of possible candidates by city workers; the News and Free Press could have reported on any prior convictions and misdeeds at that point in time.

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...
Cedric Cook might have some appreciation for what is being said, but since his BA in Business, he earned an MA in Human Resources and is working on a PhD in “Multiculturalism.”

I hope you can't really get a PhD in 'Multiculturalism'. I really hope that's a joke. Even more of a joke that any school would offer such a degree. Please tell me its a joke.

[Dumpling]

I take it you are recalling the Frosty Wooldridge dystopic version of
multiculturalism. There do seem to be academic programs teaching different flavors of multiculturalism in various parts of the world. I compared CalPERS
biographies. No one specializes in "multiculturalism" per se, backgrounds were JDs and MBAs most often, but one can tell that awareness of various cultural practices are valued by that pension community.

[Packman41]

I hope you can't really get a PhD in 'Multiculturalism'. I really hope that's a joke. Even more of a joke that any school would offer such a degree. Please tell me its a joke.

Nope, not kidding.

And not the Frosty Woodbridge version either.

This is what is written about him here in an article published in 2010 – I assumed it was correct: http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1o1...sources/22.htm

Besides the lack of critical thinking skills there are also the actual expenses involved.

The stated registration fee is $650 for the seminar, yet some of these folks got approval for fees of $1,000.

The stated hotel rate lists rooms from $200 [[sold out on May 10) to $240 per night to $270 per night. So let’s get them the BEST rooms in the house and pop for 5 nights [[it is a 4 day conference) at $270 = $1,350. So why were they approved for between $2,505 to $2,967 for hotel rooms? Double the going rate!

The FREEP article lists that two Trustees were approved for $900 in meals. That is $180 per day when the conference fee provides a FREE, breakfast and lunch each day by a sponsor.

[Dumpling]

Hopefully Mr. Cook uses the critical thinking skills gained while earning his
BBA and elsewhere to have a frugal and productive trip to Hawaii, given
that the trustees do go. Mr. Kilpatrick's various nonfrugal trips endeared
him to none of his constituents that I know of.

[Wesley Mouch]

[QUOTE=Packman41;384093]...snip...Besides the lack of critical thinking skills there are also the actual expenses involved.

The stated registration fee is $650 for the seminar, yet some of these folks got approval for fees of $1,000.

Then that's a fairly reasonable budget. A lot of budgets for travel often require that each line item is an absolute cap. So $1,000 as a budget before you know the actual cost seems OK.

The stated hotel rate lists rooms from $200 [[sold out on May 10) to $240 per night to $270 per night. So let’s get them the BEST rooms in the house and pop for 5 nights [[it is a 4 day conference) at $270 = $1,350. So why were they approved for between $2,505 to $2,967 for hotel rooms? Double the going rate!

Again, probably just budget for the worst.

The FREEP article lists that two Trustees were approved for $900 in meals. That is $180 per day when the conference fee provides a FREE, breakfast and lunch each day by a sponsor.

Now this one doesn't even come close. When you attend conferences, sometimes you can't eat the free food. Schedule, other meetings, dragged out by group of colleagues somewhere expensive when you just wanted to eat the free food. It happens. But the more I think about it, that's a reasonable budget. Suppose one person buys all the food for two. Budget rules probably require that one person to be 'pre approved' for the entire item being submitted.

[Meddle]

There's also a difference if they get a Per Diem amount to use or not or if they have to turn in receipts for reimbursement.

[Meddle]

When I worked for the Feds, I used to get a set travel amount based on airfare to the destination. Sometimes I would rent a car and drive, doing some sightseeing on the way there or back. As long as I was there when I was supposed to be and didn't exceed the set travel amount, they didn't care.