Detroit poaching more businesses from the suburbs

[jt1]

http://www.freep.com/article/2013051...etti-Gallagher

Rossetti moving from Southfield to Detroit. Let the fireworks begin.

[Malcove Magnesia]

What's enticing these companies? Sure it's fun to be downtown, except for the predictable traffic jams on I-75, I-94 and the Lodge, and those detestable city income taxes.

[313WX]

What's enticing these companies? Sure it's fun to be downtown, except for the predictable traffic jams on I-75, I-94 and the Lodge, and those detestable city income taxes.

The fact that the younger generation of talent they work with are sick and tired of office parks along an expressway and companies in Metro Detroit are sick and tired of losing these folks to companies in Chicago.

[mwilbert]

What's enticing these companies? Sure it's fun to be downtown, except for the predictable traffic jams on I-75, I-94 and the Lodge, and those detestable city income taxes.

For some kinds of businesses, the urban environment and image outweigh the disadvantages. An architectural firm would seem well-suited to being in town. And it's more fun! Depends on what kind of employees you need and who you sell to, of course.

I suspect that as downtown becomes more attractive [[assuming that continues) places like Southfield are going to have some significant outmigration problems, because I expect a downward spiral with businesses and people moving either into town or out into the real boonies.

But I could be wrong...

[Richard]

What's enticing these companies? Sure it's fun to be downtown, except for the predictable traffic jams on I-75, I-94 and the Lodge, and those detestable city income taxes.

Free space for a year or reduced price per sqft,Bedrock contracts,being around positive energy creates positive results,most of the design work will be in downtown and surrounding in the coming years so it is wise to get ones foot in the door now.

Lots of reasons, not sure on the poaching aspect because at first the suburbs were supposed to be the escape from the city and not bring the work there, you went into the city to work and home in the burbs to relax , the concept got lost in the shuffle somewhere.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Rossetti is re-designing the interior architecture in the National Bank of Detroit building. So I'm sure that aspect fits into the financial end of the deal.

[RO_Resident]

I have also heard that Bedrock is actively pursuing Ren Cen tenants.

[Gistok]

I don't know why this was referred to as "poached"... Rosetti hasn't been out in the burbs from their former Washington Blvd. location all that long... maybe a dozen years.

[Scottathew]

I've been a victim of the "Gilbert Effect". I-75 has been jammed up more and more with every announcement he makes. It's a good problem to have.

[corktownyuppie]

The fact that the younger generation of talent they work with are sick and tired of office parks along an expressway and companies in Metro Detroit are sick and tired of losing these folks to companies in Chicago.

We don't always agree...but you're dead on the money here.

[corktownyuppie]

By the way...before suburban mayors are calling out a 4-alarm fire...in no way do I expect any gigantic exodus away from the suburbs and into the city. In part, for example, because only certain corporate demographics will value the "city experience" over convenient shopping, strip malls, and 4-lane highways.

But also because Greater Downtown Detroit is, what, maybe 3-5 square miles a most? Even in an ideal world where CorkMidDowntown is at 100% capacity with not a single vacant building, all the historic buildings renovated, and filled, with overflow demand spilling out into Southwest Detroit and the City Airport area [[this will coincide with unicorn sightings and flying monkeys, btw)...even then we are still only talking about a tiny fraction of the many businesses expanding way out into Western Wayne/Washtenaw County and all the way into Lake Orion/Northern Oakland County.

Let's see if Downtown can start to look more like downtown Plymouth and Royal Oak before talking about mass migrations leaving behind miles of abandoned white elephants.

[[Not to mention that maybe one day when Downtown is vibrant, we can actually start attracting some out-of-state businesses into the suburbs and see some net growth in all of this musical chairs.)

[Wesley Mouch]

I have also heard that Bedrock is actively pursuing Ren Cen tenants.

Every office building pursues every tenant aggressively. Its a dog-eat-dog business.

Poaching? Is there any evidence that this isn't just the fair market working?

Why do we use such words when we just mean 'fairly competing and winning' business?

[wolverine]

The fact that the younger generation of talent they work with are sick and tired of office parks along an expressway and companies in Metro Detroit are sick and tired of losing these folks to companies in Chicago.

Exactly. I can't imagine working in a suburban office park. I'd be miserable. Friends of mine in their late 20's early 30's that do work at companies in the burbs are making every effort possible to bail from those companies or relocate to downtown offices if they have them. I'm sure some people are used to working in the burbs since this lifestyle all they've known for a couple decades. But practically everyone I've graduated college with lives in US cities or suburban areas on rail lines.

It's an enriching experience to arrive to your office in a big downtown, have views high from above, and take a walk outside to food trucks, restaurants, maybe a little shopping, and visiting parks during lunch.

Eventually the congestion on I-75 will become a non-issue as I will predict more young graduates living close to downtown and either biking in or taking mass transit when that becomes available.

Suburban flight of companies is happening everywhere, and for cities to be competitive for a younger workforce, they must continue to attract companies.

[313WX]

I've been a victim of the "Gilbert Effect". I-75 has been jammed up more and more with every announcement he makes. It's a good problem to have.

Even on the eastside, surface streets such as Gratiot has been getting more and more congested with time. I remember not too long ago when many of these streets would be dead during peak driving times.

Detroit actually feels like a city again with the rush hour traffic now.

[313WX]

By the way...before suburban mayors are calling out a 4-alarm fire...in no way do I expect any gigantic exodus away from the suburbs and into the city. In part, for example, because only certain corporate demographics will value the "city experience" over convenient shopping, strip malls, and 4-lane highways.

But also because Greater Downtown Detroit is, what, maybe 3-5 square miles a most? Even in an ideal world where CorkMidDowntown is at 100% capacity with not a single vacant building, all the historic buildings renovated, and filled, with overflow demand spilling out into Southwest Detroit and the City Airport area [[this will coincide with unicorn sightings and flying monkeys, btw)...even then we are still only talking about a tiny fraction of the many businesses expanding way out into Western Wayne/Washtenaw County and all the way into Lake Orion/Northern Oakland County.

Let's see if Downtown can start to look more like downtown Plymouth and Royal Oak before talking about mass migrations leaving behind miles of abandoned white elephants.

[[Not to mention that maybe one day when Downtown is vibrant, we can actually start attracting some out-of-state businesses into the suburbs and see some net growth in all of this musical chairs.)

Exactly. I can't imagine working in a suburban office park. I'd be miserable. Friends of mine in their late 20's early 30's that do work at companies in the burbs are making every effort possible to bail from those companies or relocate to downtown offices if they have them. I'm sure some people are used to working in the burbs since this lifestyle all they've known for a couple decades. But practically everyone I've graduated college with lives in US cities or suburban areas on rail lines.

It's an enriching experience to arrive to your office in a big downtown, have views high from above, and take a walk outside to food trucks, restaurants, maybe a little shopping, and visiting parks during lunch.

Eventually the congestion on I-75 will become a non-issue as I will predict more young graduates living close to downtown and either biking in or taking mass transit when that becomes available.

Suburban flight of companies is happening everywhere, and for cities to be competitive for a younger workforce, they must continue to attract companies.

There are countless articles across the web about companies in Detroit having trouble recruiting talent for the simple fact that they're in the suburbs. The allure of looking out to your window at a skyscraper forest or being in the center of everything is beginning to out-weigh the allure of being out in a McMansion, Shopping Mall and Office Park just off highway exits that can only be reached by automobile and looking out at nothing but asphalt.

Let's face it, if Detroit and its companies expect to be competitive in the 21st Century and not be left behind, they must have an strong and authentic urban core as a draw to do so. That means re-investment must happen in downtown Detroit.

I'm hoping more Detroit companies in the suburbs will join this movement as [[no offense, but) more of the good ol' guys and gals running these companies that are used to the way things used to be in this region retire and move on. I certainly don't expect all of the suburban companies to flee downtown [[for example, Ford and its clients/subsidiaries have way too much money invested in Dearborn to just up and leave), but at least enough to where we would have built a strong enough critical mass to form a powerhouse of an urban core.

[royce]

What's enticing these companies? Sure it's fun to be downtown, except for the predictable traffic jams on I-75, I-94 and the Lodge, and those detestable city income taxes.

You know this aversion to paying city income taxes by some people on here and in the Metro Detroit area is just an unnecessary diversion. It's used as an excuse to justify not living in the city over living in the suburbs. In 2011 my city income tax for my wife and myself came out to be $1546. We had a refund of $282. Subtracting the refund from the $1546 tax, I end up paying the city $1264. If I divided that by 365 days, I'm paying the city $3.46 a day. That's the price of a large cup of coffee. Also, if you're a non-resident it's half that: $1.73 per day. Now, I know that adds up when you are paying high city property taxes and hign car insurance, but if you like city living and you could save money on gasoline, then living in the city over the suburbs, and paying the city income tax is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I guess that $1264 could buy a big screen TV, but when living in the city, particularly in Midtown or downtown, the streetlife serves as your entertainment.

[313WX]

You know this aversion to paying city income taxes by some people on here and in the Metro Detroit area is just an unnecessary diversion. It's used as an excuse to justify not living in the city over living in the suburbs. In 2011 my city income tax for my wife and myself came out to be $1546. We had a refund of $282. Subtracting the refund from the $1546 tax, I end up paying the city $1264. If I divided that by 365 days, I'm paying the city $3.46 a day. That's the price of a large cup of coffee. Also, if you're a non-resident it's half that: $1.73 per day. Now, I know that adds up when you are paying high city property taxes and hign car insurance, but if you like city living and you could save money on gasoline, then living in the city over the suburbs, and paying the city income tax is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I guess that $1264 could buy a big screen TV, but when living in the city, particularly in Midtown or downtown, the streetlife serves as your entertainment.

Good point.

NYC also has an income tax for residents and commuters.

However, people don't complain about it because the allure of living/working in a city like NYC outweighs that relatively minor expense.

It's the same with Chicago which has a 10% sales tax.

[poobert]

The poaching phrase is borrowed from His Holiness, L. Brooks Patterson. He used it when referring to something-or-other leaving his fiefdom for the city. When businesses leave for glorious Oakland County, it's called growth. When they leave Oakland County for Detroit, it's "poaching" on Detroit's part. Whatever. I'm not sure how he's still alive, or worse yet, relevant.

Great news. I work in Midtown. While my job generally sucks, the benefits of working in Midtown makes it a lot more bearable. We get to walk to coffee for lunch, or I can stop by the library. I sometimes stop at the DIA on Fridays after work. That is to say nothing of happy hour! I'd rather be set on fire than work in some shitty 1980's office park in Troy.

I don't really mind city income tax but I do believe it is a case for reform. Give incentives for people living in the city, dipshits, not the other way around. Take a play from Gilbert instead of doing the same dumb shit that hasn't worked for decades.

[rex]

Detroit needs the $$$. I rather look at that $1264 as a vacation somewhere warm in the middle of January but thats just me. Save for another big economic recession or something else bringing a freeze to spending/lending, Downtown and Midtown stand a legitimate chance. Those areas with something doing need to be able to float ones that are unable to contribute much. Keep the trash collection up and streetlights on.

[Bham1982]

Good point.

NYC also has an income tax for residents and commuters.

However, people don't complain about it because the allure of living/working in a city like NYC outweighs that relatively minor expense.

NYC has an income tax on residents only. It does not have an income tax on commuters.

People do complain about it, but it's NYC, so it can get away with stuff other cities can't.

[Scottathew]

Even on the eastside, surface streets such as Gratiot has been getting more and more congested with time. I remember not too long ago when many of these streets would be dead during peak driving times.

Detroit actually feels like a city again with the rush hour traffic now.

The traffic will hopefully greatly increase the liklihood of mass transit happening.

If M1 Rail expands all the way up into the suburbs, those suburban communities are going to find that demand for housing within walking distance to the rail line will greatly increase.

In my recent house search I gave extra consideration to houses near Woodward, because taking a bus or rail would be an option for me. However, I bought a house in Rochester Hills near Auburn [[21) and John R. I move into my new house in July and I plan on taking M-59\Mound\Davison\I-75. I-75 north of a Davison is simply a parking lot during rush hour.

[iheartthed]

NYC has an income tax on residents only. It does not have an income tax on commuters.

People do complain about it, but it's NYC, so it can get away with stuff other cities can't.

NYC doesn't have a commuter tax anymore but it did have one. Also, New York State does impose a commuter tax on non-residents who travel into New York State, which is effectively the same thing [[ironic since the NYC commuter tax was outlawed by the state).

[jt1]

The poaching phrase is borrowed from His Holiness, L. Brooks Patterson. He used it when referring to something-or-other leaving his fiefdom for the city. When businesses leave for glorious Oakland County, it's called growth. When they leave Oakland County for Detroit, it's "poaching" on Detroit's part. Whatever. I'm not sure how he's still alive, or worse yet, relevant.

I'm shocked this wasn't crystal clear to anyone who reads this forum more than one a month

[iheartthed]

Exactly. I can't imagine working in a suburban office park. I'd be miserable. Friends of mine in their late 20's early 30's that do work at companies in the burbs are making every effort possible to bail from those companies or relocate to downtown offices if they have them. I'm sure some people are used to working in the burbs since this lifestyle all they've known for a couple decades. But practically everyone I've graduated college with lives in US cities or suburban areas on rail lines.

It's an enriching experience to arrive to your office in a big downtown, have views high from above, and take a walk outside to food trucks, restaurants, maybe a little shopping, and visiting parks during lunch.

Eventually the congestion on I-75 will become a non-issue as I will predict more young graduates living close to downtown and either biking in or taking mass transit when that becomes available.

Suburban flight of companies is happening everywhere, and for cities to be competitive for a younger workforce, they must continue to attract companies.

IAWTC. The suburban rebellion is not a Detroit specific thing at all. I personally wouldn't like working in suburban NYC or suburban DC any more than I'd like working in suburban Detroit.

[Bham1982]

IAWTC. The suburban rebellion is not a Detroit specific thing at all. I personally wouldn't like working in suburban NYC or suburban DC any more than I'd like working in suburban Detroit.

But the suburban business centers in those areas are generally more urban than Detroit city proper. I mean, is it just because they're suburbs?

If you work in White Plains, or Jersey City, or Stamford, or Morristown, you have frequent rail transit, department stores, walkability, and the like. I could see going car-free in Stamford, but no way in Detroit.