Who wants to bid on the Woodward M1 Rail project?

**DetroitPlanner** · May-14-13, 06:42 PM

Design Build

Here are the deets:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ve-the-station

**Gistok** · May-14-13, 07:02 PM

Gotta love this link.... here we've been thinking that Gilbert, Ilitch, Karmanos, Penske... were going to be major donors... not the case... only $3 million each... with about $38 million from Kresge Foundation, and $3 million from other corporate sources...

http://www.passfail.com/news/crains-...on-8900047.htm

**Bham1982** · May-14-13, 07:20 PM

The toonerville trolley will be every bit as successful as the People Mover. And nice to see the Kresge Foundation hard at work trying to enrich billionaires.

**Honky Tonk** · May-14-13, 07:55 PM

Too much, the magic bus.

**Scottathew** · May-14-13, 08:03 PM

It will be much more successful when they get to 8 Mile and beyond.

**Gistok** · May-14-13, 08:07 PM

So the Woodward bridge over I-94 will also be replaced as part of this... which will include the widening of the bridge to handle 4 lanes of freeway traffic for the future expansion of I-94 [[as is currently being done on the Van Dyke bridge, and planned soon for the Gratiot bridge).

So the I-94 widening has already begun in small increments.

**Honky Tonk** · May-14-13, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

So the Woodward bridge over I-94 will also be replaced as part of this... which will include the widening of the bridge to handle 4 lanes of freeway traffic for the future expansion of I-94 [[as is currently being done on the Van Dyke bridge, and planned soon for the Gratiot bridge).

So the I-94 widening has already begun in small increments.

You're going to need it to handle the additional International Bridge traffic.

**subsidized** · May-14-13, 08:26 PM

Bunch of debbie downers in here.

**Honky Tonk** · May-14-13, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by subsidized

Bunch of debbie downers in here.

What we need is a handful of yuppie uppers.

**wolverine** · May-15-13, 12:45 AM

I'll ride it. I once attempted to ride a DDOT bus but it never came. At least the streetcars will be reliable.

**Hermod** · May-15-13, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

I'll ride it. I once attempted to ride a DDOT bus but it never came. At least the streetcars will be reliable.

Yup, hard for the DDOT drivers to get lost with a streetcar.

**DetroitPlanner** · May-15-13, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Yup, hard for the DDOT drivers to get lost with a streetcar.

DDOT is not involved with M-1.

**casscorridor** · May-15-13, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

I'll ride it. I once attempted to ride a DDOT bus but it never came. At least the streetcars will be reliable.

Well you clearly don't need to ride the bus, like the thousands of people who rely on it for transport to work every day.

And yeah, the streetcars will be more reliable. But did you know there is only three individual cars being ordered... three cars for the whole line! I know it's a short line, but that's a very small capacity. Hopefully they will be at least three-four segment articulated cars, and not small cars not much bigger than a bus.

**bailey** · May-15-13, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Originally Posted by wolverine

I'll ride it. I once attempted to ride a DDOT bus but it never came. At least the streetcars will be reliable

.And yeah, the streetcars will be more reliable. But did you know there is only three individual cars being ordered... three cars for the whole line! I know it's a short line, but that's a very small capacity. Hopefully they will be at least three-four segment articulated cars, and not small cars not much bigger than a bus.

There is nothing to indicate M1 will be anymore reliable than a bus. the M1 IS a bus. It's in traffic, curb running. So, gridlock after tigers game [[insert whatever event), fenderbenders, road construction lane closures, malfunctioning street lights, or just belligerent homeless in a scooter blocking the tracks..etc. are going to delay it the same way buses get caught up in all that.

Probably the only saving grace regarding schedule is the route is so short. when the tram is stuck in traffic, walking to your destination is still an option.

regarding the "only three cars".... that is because this is a tourist/special events trolley. Not mass transit.

**Gistok** · May-15-13, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

But did you know there is only three individual cars being ordered... three cars for the whole line! I know it's a short line, but that's a very small capacity. Hopefully they will be at least three-four segment articulated cars, and not small cars not much bigger than a bus.

Don't know where you got that misinformation... but the link I provided above mentions 6 streetcars...

http://www.passfail.com/news/crains-...on-8900047.htm

**daveyarm** · May-15-13, 08:48 AM

@Bailey:
"regarding the "only three cars".... that is because this is a tourist/special events trolley. Not mass transit."
How in the world did you reach that conclusion? Do you seriously think tourists want to ride up and down Woodward Avenue? As for special events, what would be the point – – – leave Comerica, or the Opera House, etc., to go where on Woodward? To the complete contrary, this Downtown Detroiter plans to use the M1 to go to my bank up Woodward, to my pharmacy, and other shopping needs. To me it will be reliable mass transit.

**bailey** · May-15-13, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Don't know where you got that misinformation... but the link I provided above mentions 6 streetcars...

http://www.passfail.com/news/crains-...on-8900047.htm

Since the link you provided used the Cincinnati street car as an examplar of the car M1 will be ordering [[and apparently M1 will be attempting to piggy back on the order) lets look at the Street Car they use...

Ok, just give me the basics on the Cincinnati Streetcar’s operation.

Five electrically-powered streetcars, each with a capacity of 125 to 150 people, will initially operate along a 3.6 mile track...

Sounds very similar to M1. So we have [[maybe) one more car running. Although I would guess it would be rare that ALL would be running at all times. [[ps, the PM has 12 cars.)

How do we get to an " Estimated ridership of 3 million people annually".

**bailey** · May-15-13, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by daveyarm

@Bailey:
"regarding the "only three cars".... that is because this is a tourist/special events trolley. Not mass transit."
How in the world did you reach that conclusion? Do you seriously think tourists want to ride up and down Woodward Avenue? As for special events, what would be the point – – – leave Comerica, or the Opera House, etc., to go where on Woodward? To the complete contrary, this Downtown Detroiter plans to use the M1 to go to my bank up Woodward, to my pharmacy, and other shopping needs. To me it will be reliable mass transit.

Pretty sure that was the same justification behind the people mover. The people mover's 15 million annual ridership prediction was a joke and its main function turned out to be a parking shuttle for special events.

also.. please do not mistake my cynicism on this project as anti-transit.

**Honky Tonk** · May-15-13, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Pretty sure that was the same justification behind the people mover. The people mover's main function turned out to be a parking shuttle for special events.

And I have the feeling this is going to be the same scenario. The other thing that gets me is why have it "jaywalk" accross Woodward twice? Have you ever been on Woodward when an event let's out?

**Honky Tonk** · May-15-13, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

So the Woodward bridge over I-94 will also be replaced as part of this... which will include the widening of the bridge to handle 4 lanes of freeway traffic for the future expansion of I-94 [[as is currently being done on the Van Dyke bridge, and planned soon for the Gratiot bridge).

So the I-94 widening has already begun in small increments.

They're also redoing the I-94/W. Gd. Blvd. overpass/ramp. I've been watching that with interest.

**Gistok** · May-15-13, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

They're also redoing the I-94/W. Gd. Blvd. overpass/ramp. I've been watching that with interest.

Agreed... although that one is a special case... it is outside of the Conner-to-I-96 widening zone... and also has the large median that was formerly left side exit ramps. But still curious how they will redo that area...

**Honky Tonk** · May-15-13, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Agreed... although that one is a special case... it is outside of the Conner-to-I-96 widening zone... and also has the large median that was formerly left side exit ramps. But still curious how they will redo that area...

It is in very close proximity to where the new International Bridge is going in. I hope someone had the forsight to think ahead on this one. Otherwise they'll be ripping it out in a few years to construct a "new, improved" version.

**southofbloor** · May-15-13, 10:45 AM

The difference between this and the people mover is that this can be added to as part of a long term rapid transit system in the city. Actually this will work in conjunction with the people mover, since you can transfer at stations - I think building both might exponentially improve their ridership numbers. This is a great start - the challenge is that you need more branches of them to be eventually built on Gratiot, Michigan, Grand River etc, not that you don't need it.

As someone who brings tourists down to the city regularly I suspect that tourists would use this on particularly - people coming here for a weekend tend to want to hit the DIA, the downtown skyscrapers, a game/show or two, Boston Edison, the Fisher, the Charles H. Wright Museum, and Midtown. This doesn't help get to Belle Isle, the Heidelberg, Eastern Market, Indian Village, Corktown and the West End but it will cover a lot of the checklist. Seems like there will be opportunity to do something good with the Fisher Body plant etc and some of the other abandoned great buildings near New Center.

**Honky Tonk** · May-15-13, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by southofbloor

The difference between this and the people mover is that this can be added to as part of a long term rapid transit system in the city. Actually this will work in conjunction with the people mover, since you can transfer at stations - I think building both might exponentially improve their ridership numbers. This is a great start - the challenge is that you need more branches of them to be eventually built on Gratiot, Michigan, Grand River etc, not that you don't need it.

As someone who brings tourists down to the city regularly I suspect that tourists would use this on particularly - people coming here for a weekend tend to want to hit the DIA, the downtown skyscrapers, a game/show or two, Boston Edison, the Fisher, the Charles H. Wright Museum, and Midtown. This doesn't help get to Belle Isle, the Heidelberg, Eastern Market, Indian Village, Corktown and the West End but it will cover a lot of the checklist. Seems like there will be opportunity to do something good with the Fisher Body plant etc and some of the other abandoned great buildings near New Center.

Yes, Let's keep all the money and tourists where the deep pockets have invested. Taxpayers? What do they know?

**southofbloor** · May-15-13, 11:15 AM

Speaking purely from the tourist attraction perspective, downtown people from Toronto are interested in visiting some experience of Detroit but don't necessarily drive. If you want to get their money into town you need to get them to the places you think are important.

You're right that that's a very separate issue from getting people in Detroit around to where they need to go. Baptist church vans aren't really a sustainable public transit solution...