1888 Detroit Map - with Hastings

[marshamusic]

I did search to try to see if this has already been posted; to no avail [[to many results to wade through, that is).

I belong to a facebook group on Blues music [[record collectors/enthusiasts) and someone posted this map today. He highlighted Hastings St. as part of a discussion on my father's record shop [[which did not exist unitl 1945). I thought is was an interesting map of the city, back then, before freeways, etc.

http://www.wirz.de/music/diverse/grafik/hastings1888.jpg

[Honky Tonk]

I did search to try to see if this has already been posted; to no avail [[to many results to wade through, that is).

I belong to a facebook group on Blues music [[record collectors/enthusiasts) and someone posted this map today. He highlighted Hastings St. as part of a discussion on my father's record shop [[which did not exist unitl 1945). I thought is was an interesting map of the city, back then, before freeways, etc.

http://www.wirz.de/music/diverse/grafik/hastings1888.jpg

Nice score. I wonder what the "Detroit Race Course" was all about?

[Scottathew]

I see no hint or trace of the raceway in present day. The grid in that area goes right over where it was.

Fascinating map, thanks for sharing!

[marshamusic]

Note that the city ends at the Boulevard!

Note also that this is posted from a German website. We were having a discussion about Detroit and Hastings street, and many/most of the group members are abroad. I presume that the poster was using this old map to determine the origins of American Blues music in Detroit.

I note that the city's grid looked so much "cleaner" then, without so many streets cut off, bifurcated, chopped up; due to modern construction and especially, freeways.

Too bad that, zooming in, it's hard to tell the details. The poster highlighted Hastings with a red line, and the spot where my father's record store would eventually be [[Hastings, just south of Mack).

btw, Mack becomes Rowena west of Woodward. I knew this was the old name, but this is the first I've seen it on a map.

[gnome]

Nice score. I wonder what the "Detroit Race Course" was all about?

it is the site of Indian Village which did not get its names from Indian tribes, but rather some horses which were favorites at the Detroit Race Course.

I also believe it was the site where Henry Ford beat Charles[[?) Winton in a motor car race and changed the course of Detroit history.

[Honky Tonk]

Note that the city ends at the Boulevard!

Outer Drive must have come after 1888 then? I was told that Outer Drive was the "outer" most ring of Detroit's half circle layout.

[Hermod]

Outer Drive must have come after 1888 then? I was told that Outer Drive was the "outer" most ring of Detroit's half circle layout.

The boulevard was the first outer ring.

Outer Drive was the later outer ring.

[EastsideAl]

it is the site of Indian Village which did not get its names from Indian tribes, but rather some horses which were favorites at the Detroit Race Course.

I also believe it was the site where Henry Ford beat Charles[[?) Winton in a motor car race and changed the course of Detroit history.

The track was a harness racing track run by the Detroit Driving Club. It was also known as the "Hamtramck Track" as it was located in what was then Hamtramck Township off Jefferson just east of Van Dyke in what is now the southern part of Indian Village. As I understand it, there was racing there on what was then part of the Cook farm going back into the 1830s. The Driving Club took over the Hamtramck track in 1884 under D.J. "Danny" Campau and turned it into a big-time operation that was part of the important national harness racing "grand circuit" of its day.

But by 1894 the Hamtramck track was becoming outmoded and coming under development pressure as the city grew out towards it [[there was also the little matter that laws against gambling were enforced inside the City of Detroit). So the Driving Club built a new track on Campau's own farm south of Jefferson and east of Connor Creek [[the entrance to the track can still be seen in the wide part of what is now Algonquin just south of Jefferson). This was known as the "Grosse Pointe track," as it was located in what was then Grosse Pointe Township.

Auto racing in Detroit began on this track, and it was here that Henry Ford won the famous race that gnome mentions in 1901. The Driving Club departed in 1905 [[some of their members eventually became part owners of a track on Gratiot just north of 7 Mile), but harness racing continued at the Grosse Pointe track under the Detroit Racing Association until 1911.

There were 2 other tracks in this potion of the east side back in the 1890s. The Detroit Jockey Club thoroughbred racetrack was built near the river just west of Fox Creek by streetcar interests. A brick access road [[now Marlborough) with a streetcar spur line was built from the main line on Jefferson down to the track. Another race track was built out in what is now Grosse Pointe Farms, reachable by the streetcar that ran down Grosse Pointe Blvd. The northern curve of that track can still be seen in the path of Voltaire Pl. between Kerby Rd. and Vendome.

[EastsideAl]

Note also that this is posted from a German website. We were having a discussion about Detroit and Hastings street, and many/most of the group members are abroad. I presume that the poster was using this old map to determine the origins of American Blues music in Detroit.

...

btw, Mack becomes Rowena west of Woodward. I knew this was the old name, but this is the first I've seen it on a map.

It's ironic in a way that the posting of this 1888 map searching for a part of Detroit's black history would come from Germany, since the east side of Detroit - including Black Bottom and Hastings St. - was heavily populated by German immigrants in the late 1800s. The still standing and operating St. Joseph's Roman Catholic Church, a parish started by German immigrants in 1855 [[the current building dates to 1870), is testimony to that fact, as is Sacred Heart Church on Eliot just off the Chrysler Fwy. [[Hastings), which was built as a German parish in 1875 and became an African-American parish in 1938.

Incidentally, Rowena was the name for what is now Mack between Riopelle and Woodward until some time in the early 1930s. By the time the famous photo of John Lee Hooker was taken in front of your father's store though, which I believe was some time around 1950, the street sign visible in the background shows it as Mack.

[Steve]

This is the kind of thread that brings me to Detroityes. Thanks to all the participants.

[old guy]

Very interesting information.

[gnome]

Hey Marsha, Black Bottom did not garner its moniker as an oblique reference to the color of anyone's bootie. It was named for the rich black soil located there.

and thank E-Al for clarifying my mistake about Ford's race victory.

[Honky Tonk]

[[the entrance to the track can still be seen in the wide part of what is now Algonquin just south of Jefferson).

I'm going to have to check that out. Interesting info. Thanx.

[marshamusic]

Hey Marsha, Black Bottom did not garner its moniker as an oblique reference to the color of anyone's bootie. It was named for the rich black soil located there.

gnome, I didn't mention Black Bottom, that was EastsideAl.

But yes, you are right. Many people don't know that the name Black Bottom actually preceded Blacks; I try to emphasize this in my work.

I did a "one woman show" last month in which we [[my director, et al) created a movie segment to open the performance; we tried to visually illustrate this by showing hands sifting through the dark, lush soil, and then a montage of clips of the trees and foliage of Lafayette Park to show the fertility of the area. I also write about this in the most recent book on LP, because I think it's very important.

I'm curious, however; I thought that the soil was so fertile because of its proximity to the river. However, there's that dip in the streets, at Jefferson, going down to the river - of course, water does not run uphill. So does anyone know why the land was/is so fertile?

[[though I'd say a lot of the land around here is very fertile, we had 10 trees in our front and back yards in Highland Park, including four fruit trees).

Thanks Gnome....

[gnome]

Oops. Sorry for being a dumbass. Or since this is a French town, a Dumas.

While not being a anthropological geologist, I believe the reason for the fertile soil of Black Bootie is due to the Savoyard creek. I believe the source was somewhere around Eastern Market, headed towards Grand Circus, then down Washington Blvd.

there is an old thread around here with old maps and contemporary accounts about the Savoyard.

[gnome]

I was wrong again. Well, half wrong. Here is a link to the old thread:

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...light=Savoyard

in looking at Silas Farmers 1891 book on Detroit, he sez the source of the Savoyard was near Riopelle and Congress, and headed west. There is an old map on the thread made by Farmer's dad in 1830 and modified/updated by Silas in 1890.

[marshamusic]

Oops. Sorry for being a dumbass. Or since this is a French town, a Dumas.

While not being a anthropological geologist, I believe the reason for the fertile soil of Black Bootie is due to the Savoyard creek. I believe the source was somewhere around Eastern Market, headed towards Grand Circus, then down Washington Blvd.

there is an old thread around here with old maps and contemporary accounts about the Savoyard.

I'll not refer to the area as Black Bootie; all of my family and virtually all of my Detroit-born friends, neighbors and acquaintances have their family roots therein; it would be disrespectful and unseemly for me to do so.


I appreciate your mention of the Savoyard. After eliminating the river as the source of Black Bottom's fertile soil, I thought it would be the Savoyard; however its origin seemed to be rather west and moving away from Black Bottom. Would this water permeate land as far east as Orleans or Chene, in the opposite direction from where it is moving?

I don't know about these things - I appreciate your link. That is a great thread.

Of course, I am no geologist either, perhaps the river and the Savoyard did contribute to the fertility of the land. Perhaps the riverfront was different in those days, maybe the drop after Jefferson was not so pronounced as it is today. Although, photos that I've seen of that area indicate that, at least at Hastings street, it was like it is now, with the slope past Jefferson, even at the turn of the 20th century.

Maybe the riverfront was closer; maybe it has been built up/out with construction over time?

Anyway, thanks Gnome, and thanks for the excellent link....

[gnome]

Well, I will try not to make any references to BB.

silas farmer refers to the marsh which was the source of the Savoyard. Once a marsh is drained, the remaining soil is black, mucky and rich.

on the difference in elevation, keep in mind the current river bank is comprised of a bunch of fill. I believe the original bank was somewhere near Jefferson Ave, which was originally called River Road.

not sure when all the fill was trucked in.

[marshamusic]

Well, I will try not to make any references to BB.

silas farmer refers to the marsh which was the source of the Savoyard. Once a marsh is drained, the remaining soil is black, mucky and rich.

on the difference in elevation, keep in mind the current river bank is comprised of a bunch of fill. I believe the original bank was somewhere near Jefferson Ave, which was originally called River Road.

not sure when all the fill was trucked in.

Why bless you....

Yes, that's what I was thinking; I remember reading a discussion here about the riverfront having been filled in from downtown construction.

This has been posted here before [[maybe by me). I just love the video about the "ghost waters".

http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/ghostwater413.aspx

[gnome]

great link, thx

have you ever considered you may have been named Marsh[[a) for a reason. You have said your roots are in BB, maybe more than you know.

[marshamusic]

great link, thx

have you ever considered you may have been named Marsh[[a) for a reason. You have said your roots are in BB, maybe more than you know.

Ah, I got a chuckle out of that one.

Actually, I've been thinking in this thread, about my middle name Lynn; which means Lover of Water.


You know, I was gonna ask you; you said that the Savoyard might have come from the marsh....can a body of water come from a marsh? I thought it was the other way around. I mean, not that this is something I just all the time think about but....I would think that a marsh would get marshy enough that it would overflow and become a creek, then a river. But then again, where does the water in a marsh come from?

uh...Nevermind....

[gnome]

In addition to not being a geologist, I am not a marshalogist either.

I'm just a guy with a leaky memory and enough bad information to completely jack a thread.

It might not be a gift, but it is the best I can do.

[Honky Tonk]

In addition to not being a geologist, I am not a marshalogist either.

I'm just a guy with a leaky memory and enough bad information to completely jack a thread.

It might not be a gift, but it is the best I can do.

I'm not trying to get cute by posting a link to Wikipedia, but according to what I've read here, this would make sense as to the "black bottom" of the land @ that time. The question then is was the marsh caused by the Detroit Straits, or by one of the tributaries spawned of of it? [[I find natural things fascinating)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh

[marshamusic]

Gnome: In addition to not being a geologist, I am not a marshalogist either.
I'm just a guy with a leaky memory and enough bad information to completely jack a thread.
It might not be a gift, but it is the best I can do.

I'm not trying to get cute by posting a link to Wikipedia, but according to what I've read here, this would make sense as to the "black bottom" of the land @ that time. The question then is was the marsh caused by the Detroit Straits, or by one of the tributaries spawned of of it? [[I find natural things fascinating)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh

Well, Gnome, Honk, all of this discussion is awesome.

I note on the Wiki that it says that a marsh is formed by rainwater. Wow, didn't even think of that. LOL!

I am reminded of the "wetlands" section of the Riverwalk; maybe it approximates what was once the city's edge. I think that was the point, to return a section of the concretized riverwalk to its original natural state.

Anyway, maybe someone who is really knowlegeable on all of this will chime in, and we'll all learn something, while we wallow in the mire.....

[jcole]

Anyway, maybe someone who is really knowlegeable on all of this will chime in, and we'll all learn something, while we wallow in the mire....

The time to hesitate is through....