Big Brother is watching you -- New Security Cameras in Downtown Detroit

**Urban Pheasant** · May-10-13, 06:59 PM

Has anyone else noticed the hundreds of new "security" cameras that have recently popped up all over downtown?

**canuck** · May-10-13, 08:15 PM

Gannon has. Not me, I've never been in your downtown, but I like to keep abreast. Or two.

**Gannon** · May-11-13, 06:44 AM

Security cameras are just things...but in the wrong hands they can be weapons. Coupled to a megalomaniac, they would most certainly be abused. At least Big Danny's new ones seem to only look down upon his new property aquisitions.

So, don't go sliding, grinding, and otherwise trashing his buildings with your skateboard, and you should be fine. Really. Although, for some reason, the skit in Monty Python's Life of Brian about the Roman graffiti taggers is stuck in my noggin now.

I'm working on my longshot paintball sniping accuracy, though. Some black ink from printer refill kits should do just fine...blinding whomever might use 'em for nefarious purposes.

**Honky Tonk** · May-11-13, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

Security cameras are just things...but in the wrong hands they can be weapons. Coupled to a megalomaniac, they would most certainly be abused. At least Big Danny's new ones seem to only look down upon his new property aquisitions.

So, don't go sliding, grinding, and otherwise trashing his buildings with your skateboard, and you should be fine. Really. Although, for some reason, the skit in Monty Python's Life of Brian about the Roman graffiti taggers is stuck in my noggin now.

I'm working on my longshot paintball sniping accuracy, though. Some black ink from printer refill kits should do just fine...blinding whomever might use 'em for nefarious purposes.

You need a cup of coffee... and a hit.

**Gannon** · May-11-13, 07:12 AM

You are absolutely right.

**stasu1213** · May-11-13, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Urban Pheasant

Has anyone else noticed the hundreds of new "security" cameras that have recently popped up all over downtown?

Cameras had been placed on top of lamp post along Jefferson from downtown to Grosse Pointe several years ago. Lamp post along Gratoit have cameras on top of them as well. Just look up

**wolverine** · May-11-13, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

Security cameras are just things...but in the wrong hands they can be weapons. Coupled to a megalomaniac, they would most certainly be abused. At least Big Danny's new ones seem to only look down upon his new property aquisitions.

So, don't go sliding, grinding, and otherwise trashing his buildings with your skateboard, and you should be fine. Really. Although, for some reason, the skit in Monty Python's Life of Brian about the Roman graffiti taggers is stuck in my noggin now.

I'm working on my longshot paintball sniping accuracy, though. Some black ink from printer refill kits should do just fine...blinding whomever might use 'em for nefarious purposes.

I mentioned previously I'm in favor of them. City owned cameras helped police catch the thief that stole my bike.

But Gannon is right. There's actually history of abuse. I remember reading a story where police were too aggressive during an arrest and footage showing the incident was deleted.

But that's really all that can be done. And if the whole system is privately run it's even more difficult to fuss with the footage.

It's ironic how residents in Chicago complain when those blue flashing cameras outside their house failed to pick up a break in. But that's how they were designed. The camera cycles don't focus onto private property in the auto mode. They must be overridden to focus on a private residence.

**Lowell** · May-11-13, 08:50 AM

Are they new or are you just noticing them? In some ways I feel they are almost inconsequential. Now that just about everybody is equipped with a camera on their phone the recording of all activity is immense. The Boston marathon bombing is a good case and point. Law enforcement can now crowd source criminal investigation. Add to that the geo-locating of images and, well, it's a brave new world.

I've always said to folks that everything they do on the internet is forever. Maybe now need to amend that to say everything they do is forever.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-11-13, 09:54 AM

Abuse is a valid issue. The best way to avoid abuse is disclosure. Allow citizens to see what's on the cameras. Go to the internet and see live what they are looking at -- with a 15 minute delay. You can spot abuse if its happening.

Not using a technology because abuse is possible is pretty stupid. Set reasonable rules. Create reasonable access to see if rules are being followed.

In a city like Detroit with crime as it is, I'll even take a small dose of abuse if it helps control crime. The important result is public safety and a vibrant city, done with large dose of freedom.

**MikeM** · May-11-13, 10:14 AM

Are you guys talking about the traffic monitoring cameras/sensors on traffic light poles?

**Honky Tonk** · May-11-13, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by MikeM

Are you guys talking about the traffic monitoring cameras/sensors on traffic light poles?

More then likely.

**MikeM** · May-11-13, 10:40 AM

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If so, we've discussed this before. Most of these aren't even cameras; they are traffic detection sensors.

**rex** · May-11-13, 10:51 AM

Ive heard of people in other states getting tickets in the mail because of them. I see em as another way to financially abuse people with a little money left.

**MikeM** · May-11-13, 10:59 AM

You're thinking of red-light cameras, or radar cameras. These of for monitoring traffic flows and adjusting traffic light timing.

**Cliffy** · May-11-13, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by MikeM

You're thinking of red-light cameras, or radar cameras. These of for monitoring traffic flows and adjusting traffic light timing.

Exactly. They are not even cameras. Those are just sensors that detect when a car is at the signal and how long to keep the light green etc... Kind of like the sensor at Target that opens the sliding door when you get in front of it.

**subsidized** · May-11-13, 11:37 AM

I heard Gilbert has a massive secret security room set up in the Chase Tower. Hundreds of monitors with live feeds of in and around downtown 24/7. The man seems to genuinely be concerned about making downtown a more comfortable, friendly place for his employees to "live, work, and play". I guess more security cameras could possibly make some feel more secure and safe.

**DetroitPlanner** · May-11-13, 12:21 PM

I saw several cameras being installed on Gilbert buildings this week. Mainly in and around 1001 Woodward and the old Kresgee.

**rex** · May-11-13, 12:38 PM

no matter how much security and cameras or what have you. You still see things downtown that wouldn't fly almost anywhere else in America. Couple weeks ago before a ballgame, saw a guy all types of drunk with 3/4 of a handle of something or other right in front of the Fox looking for change. This is before a ballgame with police everywhere and they paid him no attention. Or the time before it last fall some guy followed me a block askin for $$$ because he just got out of jail. Doesn't quite inspire feelings of safety or security. These are the kinds of things people remember.
Is this just sport event stuff?

**downtownguy** · May-11-13, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by rex

Or the time before it last fall some guy followed me a block askin for $$$ because he just got out of jail. Doesn't quite inspire feelings of safety or security. These are the kinds of things people remember.
Is this just sport event stuff?

I've had that line pulled on me also, I would be willing to bet the guy did not just get out of jail. It's just another line panhandlers use, and that particular line is just supposed to be more intimidating. I'm sure it happens in any large city, and probably a fair number of smaller ones, too.

**wolverine** · May-11-13, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Abuse is a valid issue. The best way to avoid abuse is disclosure. Allow citizens to see what's on the cameras. Go to the internet and see live what they are looking at -- with a 15 minute delay. You can spot abuse if its happening.

Not using a technology because abuse is possible is pretty stupid. Set reasonable rules. Create reasonable access to see if rules are being followed.

In a city like Detroit with crime as it is, I'll even take a small dose of abuse if it helps control crime. The important result is public safety and a vibrant city, done with large dose of freedom.

That's a serious risk. Footage can't be easily available to the public [[unless its an incident they were involved in). In this case, members of the public could do unimaginable harm compared to what government ever could. Just think of all the creepy stalkers or people that could manipulate footage and upload it to YouTube.

Access to these cameras should always require some sort of consent with a reason.

**wolverine** · May-11-13, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by rex

no matter how much security and cameras or what have you. You still see things downtown that wouldn't fly almost anywhere else in America. Couple weeks ago before a ballgame, saw a guy all types of drunk with 3/4 of a handle of something or other right in front of the Fox looking for change. This is before a ballgame with police everywhere and they paid him no attention. Or the time before it last fall some guy followed me a block askin for $$$ because he just got out of jail. Doesn't quite inspire feelings of safety or security. These are the kinds of things people remember.
Is this just sport event stuff?

The cameras are supposed to resolve issues after the fact. Using cameras to prevent crime is a completely unreasonable expectation. That's not their intended use. Why else does shoplifting and bank robberies continue to happen?

**hortonz** · May-11-13, 02:30 PM

The security cameras are more of a visual deterrent than anything else. Trust me I've worked at a lot of retail outlets and the cameras did nothing to deter crime. With the sorry state of Detroit's police department I doubt the cameras are even marginally effective. They're just props put there by building owners because the insurance companies mandate them.

**Gannon** · May-11-13, 03:43 PM

I call bullshit on the so-called traffic cameras...being 'only' for flow control. IF that were the case, the timing for these lights would be DIFFERENT than those without 'em. They are not...at least not any in the city. They continue to use the old relay switches for timing changes.

Plus, the first implementation of these was along Rochester Road in Troy. Despite the first week totally screwing up traffic, since they were not calibrated properly, they worked for a full year before the story in the Oakland Press reporting how many individuals the police were able to catch because of image recognition, such at someone with a handgun on their dashboard.

This after the authorities repeatedly said, during the sales and installation and implementation, that they would 'only' be used for flow control...just like MikeM repeated above. Then again, he does drone that all cloud-lines drawn in the sky are merely contrails. Still.

Cheers!

**Gannon** · May-11-13, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I saw several cameras being installed on Gilbert buildings this week. Mainly in and around 1001 Woodward and the old Kresgee.

He totally zitted up the four corner pillars at One Woodward, as well...but at least it appears they are finally getting window treatments, at least on floor three as of Friday afternoon. Most of the FedEx supplies are no longer taped to the windows! Bravo, Dan.

Cheers

**Wesley Mouch** · May-11-13, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by wolverine

That's a serious risk. Footage can't be easily available to the public [[unless its an incident they were involved in). In this case, members of the public could do unimaginable harm compared to what government ever could. Just think of all the creepy stalkers or people that could manipulate footage and upload it to YouTube.

Access to these cameras should always require some sort of consent with a reason.

I think you have it backwards. Why can't footage be easily available? Why wait for creepy stalkers? The city should upload it themselves -- with a decent delay, perhaps 24 hours or more. Or maybe a random delay so its harder to use. A face/body fuzzyout is a thought. Use the technology. What happens on public streets is already quite public. Making it a little bit more public will help.