A Day Without an Arab

**Patrick** · May-04-13, 08:34 AM

We have an interesting thread on DYes, which focuses on African Americans not being respected in stores throughout the city and maybe the metro area. But let's focus on the city for a minute. Let's imagine that the "Arab" establishments shut down shop and left for the burbs or elsewhere...all of them. What would Detroit do? Who would fill the void?

Some people would say that other ethnic groups would easily fill up the void by running the markets, gas stations and other establishments. Really? Do you really think anyone would actually waltz right into Detroit in its current condition and run a party store as effectively as a Chaldean? Many Detroit boosters [[especially on DYes) would be elated if the "Arab" presence was diminished significantly in Detroit. But would that really benefit the city?

Call it politically incorrect...call it what you want but Lebs, Palis, and Chaldeans all seem to have an uncanny ability to make a buck in the shittiest of situations. The gas stations are run by guys [[many FOB) who work 18 hour days trying to make a few cents for every gallon of gasoline sold.

Put yourself in the shoes of a business owner who sets up shop in a rough area for a minute. He probably deals with habitual line-steppers on a daily basis. He has to worry about all the standard issues that any American business owner would worry about and then some.

Are some of the owners asshattish and crude? Are some of them racist? No doubt, but also look at the services they provide as well.

Focus: How would Detroit fare if the "Arab" establishments packed up and left? Think about this one for a bit. Do you think it would be a great step for the city or would it be a giant loss?

**Johnnny5** · May-04-13, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick

We have an interesting thread on DYes, which focuses on African Americans not being respected in stores throughout the city and maybe the metro area. But let's focus on the city for a minute. Let's imagine that the "Arab" establishments shut down shop and left for the burbs or elsewhere...all of them. What would Detroit do? Who would fill the void?

Some people would say that other ethnic groups would easily fill up the void by running the markets, gas stations and other establishments. Really? Do you really think anyone would actually waltz right into Detroit in its current condition and run a party store as effectively as a Chaldean? Many Detroit boosters [[especially on DYes) would be elated if the "Arab" presence was diminished significantly in Detroit. But would that really benefit the city?

Call it politically incorrect...call it what you want but Lebs, Palis, and Chaldeans all seem to have an uncanny ability to make a buck in the shittiest of situations. The gas stations are run by guys [[many FOB) who work 18 hour days trying to make a few cents for every gallon of gasoline sold.

Put yourself in the shoes of a business owner who sets up shop in a rough area for a minute. He probably deals with habitual line-steppers on a daily basis. He has to worry about all the standard issues that any American business owner would worry about and then some.

Are some of the owners asshattish and crude? Are some of them racist? No doubt, but also look at the services they provide as well.

Focus: How would Detroit fare if the "Arab" establishments packed up and left? Think about this one for a bit. Do you think it would be a great step for the city or would it be a giant loss?

There are plenty of rough urban areas where the stores are not owned or operated by Arabs or Chaldeans. It's not like they are the only people capable of operating in less than ideal situations. Totally hypothetical, but if they all left tomorrow the sudden void of retailers would be short lived. The potential for profit is the main reason any store owner puts themselves in this position in the first place, and someone else would fill the void quickly.

**Downtown Lady** · May-04-13, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Many Detroit boosters [[especially on DYes) would be elated if the "Arab" presence was diminished significantly in Detroit.

I don't think this is a fair statement. I think your statement is full of assumptions and putting words in people's mouths.

**Patrick** · May-04-13, 10:20 AM

It takes me back to this Time article from 2010:

When they arrive, many quickly set up businesses requiring little capital — gas stations, liquor stores and convenience shops. Ahmad Chebbani, chairman of the American Arab Chamber of Commerce, says more than 15,000 businesses in the metro area are owned by Middle Easterners. Surely part of the attraction is that to people from countries ravaged by war and poverty, Detroit can seem like a haven.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz2SKzg5ZKA

Ironically, being from a war-torn country can be a blessing in disguise because it helps prepare a potential business owner for the realities faced in Detroit. That is not an inaccurate statement.

**Lowell** · May-04-13, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Many Detroit boosters [[especially on DYes) would be elated if the "Arab" presence was diminished significantly in Detroit.

Originally Posted by Downtown Lady

I don't think this is a fair statement. I think your statement is full of assumptions and putting words in people's mouths.

^ I agree. I have met many members of this forum. I have never met one with that opinion.

I have come to know a number or Arabic / Caldean-American business owners. Many are immigrants from very tough neighborhoods that make Detroit's worst look easy. It was a high risk, high reward gamble and they took the chance. They are as brillant at business as they are brave. They have had problems comprehending cross-cultural sensitivity but have learned.

I read that over 100 have been killed over the years.

I think the Dawsey incident being discussed in African Americans Need To Stop Shopping Where They're Disrespected is more about him running into a insolent jerk than anything else - and jerks are in every culture throughout time. The jerk was wrong and any smart businessman would know that behavior is bad for his business and get rid of the employee.

However... all this is masking a larger question. Why have our public safety practices failed so miserably that the bullet proof cages and spinning check out boxes are necessary? Why do these neighborhood remain unsecured not for days or months, but for decades? Answer that Mr. Orr, Mr. Synder, Mr. Obama.

**Danny** · May-04-13, 12:22 PM

Arab Americans and Chaldeans who own various 'Liquor' stores in the black communities of Detroit will lose profits for a day if they decide to close their locations. This plan to "A day without a Arab" will be very risky. Black folks may have to go ino the suburbs to find a 'Liquor' store without being caught by suspicious suburban police if they don their criminal element clothing or just loitering.

**p69rrh51** · May-04-13, 12:38 PM

I think the Dawsey incident being discussed in African Americans Need To Stop Shopping Where They're Disrespected is more about him running into a insolent jerk than anything else - and jerks are in every culture throughout time. The jerk was wrong and any smart businessman would know that behavior is bad for his business and get rid of the employee.

Lowell has a good insight on the incident. On the other hand I think this type of behavior is more common than we realize. My local gas station owner told me that it was ok to fill my tank without paying first while every black patron has to go in and pay first.
As for ownership of the local shops/gas stations I have always wondered why the black community has not invested in their own neighborhoods. Except for a small number of shops the party stores/gas stations are owned by those who have no ties to the area.

m b v · May-04-13, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

The gas stations are run by guys [[many FOB) who work 18 hour days trying to make a few cents for every gallon of gasoline sold.

Yea, none of them sell stolen goods, run EBT, check cashing and cell phone scams, or any other various acts of fraud or exploiting of the poor. Just a bunch of honest guys making pennies off Little Debbies & gallons of gas... while driving new Range Rovers.

**Patrick** · May-04-13, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by m b v

Yea, none of them sell stolen goods, run EBT, check cashing and cell phone scams, or any other various acts of fraud or exploiting of the poor. Just a bunch of honest guys making pennies off Little Debbies & gallons of gas... while driving new Range Rovers.

All of them do that? Come on Schlussel, you can do better than that.

**Patrick** · May-04-13, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

There are plenty of rough urban areas where the stores are not owned or operated by Arabs or Chaldeans. It's not like they are the only people capable of operating in less than ideal situations. Totally hypothetical, but if they all left tomorrow the sudden void of retailers would be short lived. The potential for profit is the main reason any store owner puts themselves in this position in the first place, and someone else would fill the void quickly.

Ok, then why are there so many Arab owned businesses in the city of Detroit specifically? Why the disproportionate amount of Arab businesses in a city that is predominantly black? Some have called the Middle Eastern presence a "monopoly" of sorts. Seems to be that they are operating in a market that no one else really wants to touch, from a business standpoint.

I know firsthand that SE Michigan is a magnet for newcomers from the Middle East. So many simply come because they already have someone here in Dearborn or Sterling heights to help them out. Many newcomers already have the skills and knowledge needed to run a store or establishment so I suppose that is a major factor. Is it that much harder for anyone else to open a party store in the city?

Here is an interesting letter to the Freep:

http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...sses-shut-down

**ccal** · May-04-13, 01:36 PM

I've always wondered why aren't there more of these establishments since there are so many Middle Easterns living here.

**Patrick** · May-04-13, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by ccal

I've always wondered why aren't there more of these establishments since there are so many Middle Easterns living here.

I think a lot of it has to deal with the low profit margin in gas stations and party stores. However, to most Lebanese immigrants, Detroit looks like the Emerald City when compared with Tripoli. They won't be picky about the type of business as long as it allows them the ability to make a living and put food on the table. I also think that their willingness [[along with most other immigrants) to work long hours in less-than-ideal circumstances is what will keep America what it is in the long run.

Would you say that Arabs are doing the work that no one else wants to do? Would someone else really step in if Arabs stepped out?

**EastsideAl** · May-04-13, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Ok, then why are there so many Arab owned businesses in the city of Detroit specifically? Why the disproportionate amount of Arab businesses in a city that is predominantly black?

This ethnic "monopoly" on urban businesses seems to be something that happens in American cities [[and, indeed, elsewhere in the world). I believe what Johnny 5 was saying is that it's different ethnic groups in different cities.

For instance, in east coast cities there has been the same sort of inter-ethnic tension as here [[perhaps even worse, actually) between predominantly Korean shopkeepers and African-American customers. In other cities I've lived in large numbers of the local stores have been run by Indians [[from India, that is), Bengalis, Vietnamese, Filipinos, Dominicans, or others. In the Detroit area, with a long history of immigration from the middle east, the store owners just happen to be people from that part of the world.

In any event, I think you misread both the article and the posted responses here. People don't want the "Arab" or Chaldean store owners to leave. They just wish that some of them would treat their primary customers a little better. And if you haven't seen African-American customers sometimes being treated poorly or rudely for little or no reason, then you haven't been shopping much on my part of the east side.

**Gistok** · May-04-13, 01:56 PM

I have to agree with Patrick... if all these Arab/Chaldean store owners closed shop... they would NOT be quickly filled by others... except other Arab/Chaldeans.

And some of these are no longer run by the original owners. Just like other businesses... when the owners make enough money to invest in other properties... they sell to other Arab/Chaldeans... and invest their money in safer areas.

One business that comes to mind is the Mr. C's party stores on the east side and eastern burbs. These were originally owned by the Italian-American Catalfio family [[the car washes still are)... but the party stores are now owned by the Chaldean Saad family. And since they don't use plexiglass... they avoid the poorer areas.

**EastsideAl** · May-04-13, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

All of them do that? Come on Schlussel, you can do better than that.

Oh, and before we start throwing around the name of the hateful Ms. Schlussel, we all do well to remember that a few generations ago very similar accusations of rudeness, lack of respect, closed employment, and fraudulent practices were routinely thrown at Jewish shopkeepers, who were then the primary operators of small stores in black and poor neighborhoods.

**Umbound** · May-04-13, 02:28 PM

I feel a little compelled now to post since I am Chaldean and my family runs stores in the city. Also a correct term for people from the middle east would just be to refer to them as 'of middle eastern' decent rather then clumping us all and to one word. I take a little offense when called arab. Regardless EastsideAl is right in part that cities have certain groups that do just happen to come from a part of world where the ethnicity is common. As far as a general assumption that all stores/storeowners are racist and treat blacks with no respect, run scams on everything imaginable etc. is just wrong and racist. At my families stores we treat everyone with dignity and respect.

**Danny** · May-04-13, 02:42 PM

Mr. Dawsey's comments reflects on how black Detroit customers are collectively and cuturally oppressed by Arab 'liquor' store owners. He really wants blacks to run the 'liquor' store business in Detroit. However most business owner don't have the knowhow or in their mentality selling 'poisons to our people!' Now Arab's and Chaldeans run the 'liquor' stores in the ghettoes of Detroit and those places are oppresive machines to control the African American minds craving for artificial food and products.

It's kind of like the Lotus Eaters. Pick a lotus, take a bite, once you eat the lotus you'll be under its spell forever.

m b v · May-04-13, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

All of them do that? Come on Schlussel, you can do better than that.

Many of my close family friends are Arabic, and yes, all of them in that kind of biz are running the same scams -- some more than others, obviously. Something not all of them are doing: selling narcotics. But the EBT scam, tax schemes, and moving stolen goods [[baby formula is a big one) are done by most.

m b v · May-04-13, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I have to agree with Patrick... if all these Arab/Chaldean store owners closed shop... they would NOT be quickly filled by others... except other Arab/Chaldeans.

Oh what a great loss it would be for Pontiac & Detroit to lose the liquor-cell phone-cash advance-money laundering-gas stores that have taken over both cities.

**downtownguy** · May-04-13, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by m b v

Many of my close family friends are Arabic,

I'm glad I'm not in your family. Not just based on this statement, but on just about all of your other posts.

**Downtown Lady** · May-04-13, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by m b v

Many of my close family friends are Arabic, and yes, all of them in that kind of biz are running the same scams

I'm not buying this -- they're allegedly scam artists that you have obvious contempt for [[based on your posts) yet you consider them close family friends? That doesn't even add up.

**RickBeall** · May-05-13, 02:04 AM

This is a little off topic, but I'll mention it.
Running a party store or gas station is dangerous. The Hamtramck paper 10 years back did a piece on all the families that own run convenience & grocery stores in Hamtramck. Those stores had been run by the same families for years and all of them had a relative killed in the store. All of them. So, show those guys respect. You almost have to be like a police officer to run a store in and around Detroit.

**Zacha341** · May-05-13, 02:11 AM

I hear you Umbound. Your voice needs to be heard among the others. Everyone of middle eastern decent is NOT running a scam, rude or racist. I shop at stores in Detroit and Dearborn were the merchants work tirelessly to provide good service, with kindness and respect, sometimes in areas where most would not bother to set up shop. Thank you for your comments, and I hope to hear more from you.

Originally Posted by Umbound

I feel a little compelled now to post since I am Chaldean and my family runs stores in the city. Also a correct term for people from the middle east would just be to refer to them as 'of middle eastern' decent rather then clumping us all and to one word. I take a little offense when called arab.

Regardless EastsideAl is right in part that cities have certain groups that do just happen to come from a part of world where the ethnicity is common. As far as a general assumption that all stores/storeowners are racist and treat blacks with no respect, run scams on everything imaginable etc. is just wrong and racist. At my families stores we treat everyone with dignity and respect.

**Jaybiz** · May-05-13, 03:58 AM

"Do you really think anyone would actually waltz right into Detroit in its current condition"…yes there'd be a line of people. No disrespect but it seems that there is a detroit-naïveté with many, espeacially the Detroit people with no real roots here. Does no one remember it was all Italians before Chaldeans [[not Arabs who are largely Muslim and will not sell alcohol) who ran party stores and the Italians weren't scared away by crime believe me. Also in almost all other cities it's other ethic groups other than mid-eastern ppl [[like Chicago or LA) that run party stores. I really don't understand the original post point but it seemed racist on many levels which I don't even want to get into it but it seems like a step backward; I don't care how many lofts they buy or tax dollars they give.

**gnome** · May-05-13, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

Mr. Dawsey's comments reflects on how black Detroit customers are collectively and cuturally oppressed by Arab 'liquor' store owners. He really wants blacks to run the 'liquor' store business in Detroit. However most business owner don't have the knowhow or in their mentality selling 'poisons to our people!' Now Arab's and Chaldeans run the 'liquor' stores in the ghettoes of Detroit and those places are oppresive machines to control the African American minds craving for artificial food and products.

It's kind of like the Lotus Eaters. Pick a lotus, take a bite, once you eat the lotus you'll be under its spell forever.

Good post Danny. Well reasoned and composed, the lotus reference was perfect.