A Day Without an Arab

[p69rrh51]

Well having seen all that first hand and quite often plus the very silly language police in action its all true. If you do not like it to bad its not my problem! I am on to other threads,

[Chinman]

i am sorry to say, if anybody on this post had any study of anthropology....you would know that each group of people that moves in and takes over....has an ability to know how to make money! learn the way and make your own!

[Chinman]

the Germans came in the 1700's and then in the late 1800's. the Irish came at the same time. all immigrates were hated until they became assimilated.
give our friends a chance to be part of our country!
oh yeah! let's not forget about the French, Armenians, Jews', and any other peoples who came here for a better life!

[Honky Tonk]

My goodness! ....and you think I can tell a story.....

No good???

[marshamusic]

No good???

No, no, no! Awesome!

Top to bottom, Honk, I couldn't have said it better myself.
What comes from the heart, reaches the heart and I felt that - including your point about the thread title.

*******

I always wonder what kind of quality of work life could it possibly be, to be encapsuled in that awful plexiglass for however many hours a day - and, depending on the location - contending with-who-knows-what manner of urban insanity on a daily basis.

The rudeness from station owners or workers that I have personally experienced [[yes, I have) can only be a projection of their own existence, having to be proprietors in the most miserable of these situations. I do not take it personally.

I do not tolerate it, either. Nor do I “demand” respect.
When a proprietor, especially one younger than either one of my sons, greets me with “hey sweetie”, I respond with, “that would be ma’am”.

When they react in surprise, since they are accustomed to speaking with female customers with undue familiarity, I tell them that they do not know me well enough to address me in that way, as I am old enough to be their mother or even grandmother.

I do not talk to them with hostility [[not my style), and in fact, I am very friendly [[my style); but I make it clear that I intend that this be a “teaching moment”, at least as regards to me.

They always apologize and they always call me “ma’am” in the end, and if I return and they remember me. I attribute this “lack of respect” to their [[often patronizing) attempts to be convivial in an confusing racial landscape in which they often deal with an undereducated, unmannerable, chaotic clientele, born of the crisis in the city, that allows and elicits less than cordial treatment.

My late aunt, raised in the generation of open, legal racial prejudice and the demeaning of blacks, would always say to me, “I do not beg and pay” [[a lesson for us all), and would cause no scene if ill-treated; she’d simply leave, and refuse to patronize a place where she felt disrespected, if at all possible.

We were always taught, as children, ways to avoid problems based on prejudicial views of us – one of them, as Dawsey says, was making sure you are given a bag, so as not to be wrongfully accused of shoplifting - and as a gesture of being treated as an equal customer.

It has taken me years to not ask for a bag for even the tiniest item, that habit is so ingrained! LOL!

Though it would not have been my reaction, Dawsey's stand off on the bag was his reaction - likely a result of probably numerous simliar situations in these stores - of being an educated professional being treated the same way they might react to the "underclass".

******

The question often comes up, as it has in this thread, why don’t blacks own these stores? Well, of course there are a number of complex reasons, but one is, in a generational sense, we’ve “been there, done that”.

Blacks have already owned gas stations in Detroit. Many of the old gas stations that you see in the neighborhoods were owned by blacks, back in the day [[before gas stations became these quasi party-store marts that they are today).

When I said this to a group of students recently, they simply could not fathom this; our cultural eye in Detroit has become so accustomed to Middle Easterners owning gas stations that to think of blacks behind a gas station counter is incongruous.

Due to the extremely long hours; the need for providing other costly services; getting edged out of the oil company networks; post-segregation access to other jobs and education - most black gas station owners did all they could to educate their children out of the gas station business, such that the next generation did not continue in this profession.

It is this vacuum that, initially, many of the Middle Eastern owners filled.
The most recent example [[that I know of) of African American ownership of a Detroit gas station was a relatively recent [[within the last 10 years) acquisition of the station on Warren and I-75, northeast corner, which only lasted a few short years.

Whenever there is a hue and cry about why we don’t own these gas stations, I am like really??? You want to be in that plexiglass box all day, maybe 12 hours a day?

Methinks not; nor do folks really want to deal with the more unstable element of the city’s “underclass”.

I do not wish to generalize, as many gas stations are located in more stable areas of the city, and are not in such a chaotic environment - but you get my point.

So, was the incident with Dawsey "racist" or not? I don’t know. I know that we [[blacks) often describe rude behavior towards us as “racist” when it may or may not be – but I also know that others [[whites) often deny that “race” has anything to do with anything, no matter how systemic and common are behaviors directed towards us.

Bottom line is, we are locked in a dirty Detroit dance in these encounters - and only the most empathetic approach of each party towards the others will help us all.

[btw, even though I flinch every time I see this thread title, I want to believe the poster is referencing the old literary work that imagined a day without black people in a small town – and begged the question as to who would fill the vacuum of those who did all of the unpleasant labor, therein.]

[Honky Tonk]

No, no, no! Awesome!

Top to bottom, Honk, I couldn't have said it better myself.
What comes from the heart, reaches the heart and I felt that - including your point about the thread title.

*******

I always wonder what kind of quality of work life could it possibly be, to be encapsuled in that awful plexiglass for however many hours a day - and, depending on the location - contending with-who-knows-what manner of urban insanity on a daily basis.
The rudeness from station owners or workers that I have personally experienced [[yes, I have) can only be a projection of their own existence, having to be proprietors in the most miserable of these situations. I do not take it personally.
I do not tolerate it, either. Nor do I “demand” respect.
When a proprietor, especially one younger than either one of my sons, greets me with “hey sweetie”, I respond with, “that would be ma’am”.
When they react in surprise, since they are accustomed to speaking with female customers with undue familiarity, I tell them that they do not know me well enough to address me in that way, as I am old enough to be their mother or even grandmother.
I do not talk to them with hostility [[not my style), and in fact, I am very friendly [[my style); but I make it clear that I intend that this be a “teaching moment”, at least as regards to me.
They always apologize and they always call me “ma’am” in the end, and if I return and they remember me. I attribute this “lack of respect” to their [[often patronizing) attempts to be convivial in an confusing racial landscape in which they often deal with an undereducated, unmannerable, chaotic clientele, born of the crisis in the city, that allows and elicits less than cordial treatment.

My late aunt, raised in the generation of open, legal racial prejudice and the demeaning of blacks, would always say to me, “I do not beg and pay” [[a lesson for us all), and would cause no scene if ill-treated; she’d simply leave, and refuse to patronize a place where she felt disrespected, if at all possible.
We were always taught, as children, ways to avoid problems based on prejudicial views of us – one of them, as Dawsey says, was making sure you are given a bag, so as not to be wrongfully accused of shoplifting - and as a gesture of being treated as an equal customer.

It has taken me years to not ask for a bag for even the tiniest item, that habit is so ingrained! LOL!

Though it would not have been my reaction, Dawsey's stand off on the bag was his reaction - likely a result of probably numerous simliar situations in these stores - of being an educated professional being treated the same way they might react to the "underclass".

******

The question often comes up, as it has in this thread, why don’t blacks own these stores? Well, of course there are a number of complex reasons, but one is, in a generational sense, we’ve “been there, done that”.
Blacks have already owned gas stations in Detroit. Many of the old gas stations that you see in the neighborhoods were owned by blacks, back in the day [[before gas stations became these quasi party-store marts that they are today).
When I said this to a group of students recently, they simply could not fathom this; our cultural eye in Detroit has become so accustomed to Middle Easterners owning gas stations that to think of blacks behind a gas station counter is incongruous.
Due to the extremely long hours; the need for providing other costly services; getting edged out of the oil company networks; post-segregation access to other jobs and education - most black gas station owners did all they could to educate their children out of the gas station business, such that the next generation did not continue in this profession.

It is this vacuum that, initially, many of the Middle Eastern owners filled.
The most recent example [[that I know of) of African American ownership of a Detroit gas station was a relatively recent [[within the last 10 years) acquisition of the station on Warren and I-75, northeast corner, which only lasted a few short years.
Whenever there is a hue and cry about why we don’t own these gas stations, I am like really??? You want to be in that plexiglass box all day, maybe 12 hours a day?

Methinks not; nor do folks really want to deal with the more unstable element of the city’s “underclass”.
I do not wish to generalize, as many gas stations are located in more stable areas of the city, and are not in such a chaotic environment - but you get my point.
So, was the incident with Dawsey "racist" or not? I don’t know. I know that we [[blacks) often describe rude behavior towards us as “racist” when it may or may not be – but I also know that others [[whites) often deny that “race” has anything to do with anything, no matter how systemic and common are behaviors directed towards us.
Bottom line is, we are locked in a dirty Detroit dance in these encounters - and only the most empathetic approach of each party towards the others will help us all.
[btw, even though I flinch every time I see this thread title, I want to believe the poster is referencing the old literary work that imagined a day without black people in a small town – and begged the question as to who would fill the vacuum of those who did all of the unpleasant labor, therein.]

I want to make it VERY clear that I don't agree with, nor condone, the actions of, either the clerk in Mr. Dawsey's story, nor the clerk posting the slurs and texts in the other story. Based on my personal experiences, I'm merely offering a view into what this kind of world is like. “I do not beg and pay”, I like that......

[marshamusic]

I want to make it VERY clear that I don't agree with, nor condone, the actions of, either the clerk in Mr. Dawsey's story, nor the clerk posting the slurs and texts in the other story.

I hope I did not suggest that you do; that was nowhere near my intent - and neither do I.

[gnome]

If bags are so important, I suggest Mr. dawsey never shop at Aldi.

[Honky Tonk]

If bags are so important, I suggest Mr. dawsey never shop at Aldi.

If he wrote an essay over a bag, wait until he has to spend a quarter on the shopping cart. It'll rival War And Peace.........

[Hypestyles]

Amy Chua delves into this topic surprising parallels to Detroit http://www.amazon.com/World-Fire-Exp...d+on+fire+chua

[marshamusic]

Amy Chua delves into this topic surprising parallels to Detroit http://www.amazon.com/World-Fire-Exp...d+on+fire+chua

I am not familiar with this book, but I have pondered the concentration of different ethnic groups in various areas of Detroit commerce; Koreans - African American beauty supply; Vietnamese - nail salons; East Indians/Pakistani/Sikhs - parking lots [[please pardon my lack of precision here, I am not sure of the national origins).

I often wonder how this develops, what it is like from the inside of these cultures to be in these businesses, and what is the transition that takes place whereas another group comes in to dominate another area of Detroit commerce. Very interesting stuff.
.

[Servite]

All this talk about party stores....has anyone been in a hospital lately?? Or a pharmacy??

[MidTownMs]

A day without an Arab? How about a day without a murder?

[Honky Tonk]

All this talk about party stores....has anyone been in a hospital lately?? Or a pharmacy??

They no longer bag either????

[marshamusic]

I want to make it VERY clear that I don't agree with, nor condone, the actions of, either the clerk in Mr. Dawsey's story, nor the clerk posting the slurs and texts in the other story. Based on my personal experiences, I'm merely offering a view into what this kind of world is like. “I do not beg and pay”, I like that......

That phrase of my aunt's came to mind when I read an earlier poster in this thread who is white and he/she said that they were totally ignored by a [[black) cashier who had been chatting up the [[black) customers ahead of him/her in line. I don't have to beg and pay.

[[btw, just to be clear Honky Tonk, after my remarks to you, my long post that followed wasn't in response to you. I should have started another post).

[Honky Tonk]

That phrase of my aunt's came to mind when I read an earlier poster in this thread who is white and he/she said that they were totally ignored by a [[black) cashier who had been chatting up the [[black) customers ahead of him/her in line. I don't have to beg and pay.

[[btw, just to be clear Honky Tonk, after my remarks to you, my long post that followed wasn't in response to you. I should have started another post).

Ms. Music, My disclaimer wasn't aimed @ you specifically. Sometimes I say something, and people assume I'm taking sides or am finding a justification for the action. That wasn't my point, and I just wanted to clarify that.

[marshamusic]

Ok.....I didn't know. Just wanted to be sure...

[Al Publican]

To be DC [[Detroit correct) one must say "A-rab sto'." That makes me wonder if there was a chain called A-rab Store if that would be a piece of marketing genius, not just for Detroit but worldwide.

Several years ago, I was in Vientiane, Laos. I walked into a retail store near the banks of the Mekong and realized I was in an A-rab sto'. When I told the owner that I was living in San Diego at the time, he said he had peeps there. How about Detroit? I asked. No peeps but former homies, he said.

I walked out of the place with a bottle of Tiger beer in a brown paper bag and drank it while taking in the scene on the Mekong. A moment later, I took the bottle out of paper bag thinking 'You're not in Detroit anymore, Toto.'

[Hermod]

To be DC [[Detroit correct) one must say "A-rab sto'." That makes me wonder if there was a chain called A-rab Store if that would be a piece of marketing genius, not just for Detroit but worldwide.

Arab, Alabama [[near Huntsville) was pronounced as "A-rab" by the locals both black and white.

[Hermod]

From an earlier non-PC era:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLB15kBvn_c

[Bham1982]

Whenever there is a hue and cry about why we don’t own these gas stations, I am like really??? You want to be in that plexiglass box all day, maybe 12 hours a day?

You do realize that the gas station owners aren't sitting in the plexiglass box, right? They're sleeping soundly in Bloomfield Hills.

These Chaldean entrepeneurs are very successful, and the owners are long past the stage of sweating for every last nickel. Chaldeans came in greatest numbers in the 70's and 80's, and the actual owners are well-established at this point.

The public schools in Bloomfield Hills and West Bloomfield are both very heavily Chaldean. Those are the families that comprise the Chaldean business owner class.

[marshamusic]

You do realize that the gas station owners aren't sitting in the plexiglass box, right? They're sleeping soundly in Bloomfield Hills.

These Chaldean entrepeneurs are very successful, and the owners are long past the stage of sweating for every last nickel. Chaldeans came in greatest numbers in the 70's and 80's, and the actual owners are well-established at this point.

The public schools in Bloomfield Hills and West Bloomfield are both very heavily Chaldean. Those are the families that comprise the Chaldean business owner class.

You make good points. I was thinking more of the "starting from the bottom" aspect of entrepreneurship, relative to these gas stations, and why blacks [[or orthers ) might not be attracted to them, as new business owners.

Btw, your mention of Chaldeans is another reason that the title of the thread may be something of a mispresentation.