JoAnn Watson - Wants to bring back residency requirements

[corktownyuppie]

First, I don't know if that's even possible. But with the EM now in place, he could plausibly go back to Snyder and say, "Look...I've crunched the numbers. There's no way to make a budget work unless all of these employees/pensioners return to the city."

Thoughts? Obviously, it would help our bottom line. But is this politically feasible? I'm torn on this and would like to entertain both sides.

My proposal thusfar would go like this:

- Orr goes to the bankers/bond holders and demands a large paycut.

- Orr goes to the pensioners and unions and demands the same things.

- Orr goes back to pensions and unions and says that we will replace your concessions with an income tax system that is heavily punitive for out-of-city residents and somehow highly rewards people for moving back to the city.

Am curious what people think about this.

[1953]

As I see it, the tradeoff involved with a residency requirement is that of an inability to attract the best workers vs. the ability of the city to retain a professional class of residents.

Shouldn't there be some way to study this systematically to see which has the higher costs?

1953

[Shollin]

I can say for certain it would help stabilize neighborhoods. NE Detroit used to be filled with cops and city workers. It was a good middle class neighborhood that really wasn't below Harper Woods at the time. After the residency was lifted the neighborhood went downhill.

[michimoby]

First, I don't know if that's even possible. But with the EM now in place, he could plausibly go back to Snyder and say, "Look...I've crunched the numbers. There's no way to make a budget work unless all of these employees/pensioners return to the city."

Thoughts? Obviously, it would help our bottom line. But is this politically feasible? I'm torn on this and would like to entertain both sides.

My proposal thusfar would go like this:

- Orr goes to the bankers/bond holders and demands a large paycut.

- Orr goes to the pensioners and unions and demands the same things.

- Orr goes back to pensions and unions and says that we will replace your concessions with an income tax system that is heavily punitive for out-of-city residents and somehow highly rewards people for moving back to the city.

Am curious what people think about this.

Politically feasible? Not a chance.

The only feasible way I see this being arranged is if city workers are guaranteed their children would be granted vouchers for private school attendance or would have free enrollment choices [[including schools outside of DPS).

[iheartthed]

I thought it was unconstitutional? The EFM doesn't change that.

Otherwise, I don't see why Detroit shouldn't be able to set a policy requiring everyone that it employs to live within its borders.

[corktownyuppie]

I thought it was unconstitutional? The EFM doesn't change that.

Otherwise, I don't see why Detroit shouldn't be able to set a policy requiring everyone that it employs to live within its borders.

It might be unconstitutional to set residency requirements. But it's not unconstitutional to set two different income tax classes. In theory, they could set tax rates for non-residents to be prohibitively high and for residents to be much lower as an incentive.

And they could also set a 4-year phase-in period. So it's not like you have to move out tomorrow.

And trust me...the only reason why I'm bringing this up isn't because Joann Watson said it. It's because Orr is now in charge. And if Orr says to Snyder, "Look...I don't think this is fixable without a major cut in structural expenses combined with a giant infusion of capital to accomplish the restructuring"...then it might open the door to options that didn't exist before.

I'm not even saying I'm in favor of it. But just talking out loud about pro's and con's.

[jolla]

It would be political suicide, but Orr doesn't care about that.

I think it would help the city.

[mwilbert]

I doubt there is a financial case to be made here. For every billion dollars of payroll, how much extra could you possibly get in income taxes? If there were a 2% differential, which seems too high to be feasible, you'd only get 20 million.

[Al Publican]

City employees should want to live where they work, but not forced to do so. I once supported residency and lived in Detroit for 23 years of the 25 I was with the DFD. When residency was dropped in 2001, I moved out, not out of spite, but because I had been living downtown for 12 years and simply wanted a change.

Just curious: what are council members like Jo Ann Watson getting paid these days?

[illwill]

I've always stated this is THE single most important issue if Detroit is to ever make a real comeback. The state just has to apply this to all new hire's for city workers.

This is a THE most critical suggestion I've heard thus far, by anyone.

[Lowell]

JoAnn Watson wants To Bring Back Residency Requirements. What next? Will she also want to bring back property tax payment requirements?

Personally, I favor it but legally it will go nowhere.

[michimoby]

It would be political suicide, but Orr doesn't care about that.

I think it would help the city.

"Help the city" is a very broad response. Would it help create a stable tax base? Sure.

But it could also cause the opposite: city workers with families are scared to send their kids to DPS schools, and a mass wave of "early retirement"/resignations occur so as not to adhere to the requirement.

We don't know what each family member's BATNA is in this situation, so it's hard to tell. But moving isn't easy, especially for city workers with an established base in the suburbs for their families.

[Chicago48]

Politically feasible? Not a chance.

The only feasible way I see this being arranged is if city workers are guaranteed their children would be granted vouchers for private school attendance or would have free enrollment choices [[including schools outside of DPS).

A friend of mine in Detroit told me that more and more Det PO are quitting and moving to Atlanta. I don't know what the pay difference is, but to get the best you gotta pay the best.

[313WX]

I'm completely on board with idea, as most know.

But it ain't happening.

[313WX]

A friend of mine in Detroit told me that more and more Det PO are quitting and moving to Atlanta. I don't know what the pay difference is, but to get the best you gotta pay the best.

Who can blame them?

[SWMAP]

Corktown assumes that Detroit's public service jobs are so great that people would actually move into the City for a chance to serve. But let's talk realistically.
Police work: there are no aspirational sections left. No mounted, no aviation. Is there a dive team? Does the DPD send experts in police work to any competitions any more? No- although the Department does send the brass off to national conventions with their paramours.
And, if a man is not Black, what chance does he have for promotion? I purposely leave women out of this question because in the DPD it looks like women who sleep with the bosses do get promoted.
Fire Department: i am not familiar with whether or not there are aspirational oppotunities in the DFD, but i read that the equipment is sub-standard or non existant, the rigs are broken, etc. It has to be a little embarrassing. And the danger is huge. Every night, all night i hear the fire sirens in SW Detroit as the neighborhoods burn down.
Iam also puzzled that posters assert that two neighborhoods went to hell when residency was lifted. Wouldn't that be on the people who bought the nice houses and moved in? Why didn't they pay taxes and keep up the nice streets in their turn?
Assume that some cops and firefighters do live in the city -say 1000. So for 3000 jobs you want to return to the days of policing residency? That costs a lot and it was an eternal cat and mouse game.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I'm all for it if she pays her property tax bill first.

[Smirnoff]

Bump for the city being sold to Canada.....they will keep ALL the bridge revenue to pay for the city & all the residents will become Canadian citizens, aye

[1953]

If you ever watch HGTV, you know that Canada takes much better care of its urban centers than the U.S. does. If we are serious about improving Detroit, maybe we should explore joining Canada.

[poobert]

I'm in favor of this, but a couple practical issues arise:

Detroit is so littered with vacant buildings, someone could easily purchase a $1,000 house and never live there. I know that was always the case, but there are even fewer means to enforce the residency requirement now.

Where the hell would all these people live? Gratiot and Houston-Whittier? The humble but lovely neighborhoods where civil servants used to live before are shelled out now for the most part now. Civil servants can't afford Midtown lofts or Palmer Woods mansions.

There is also no legal way to secede from the United States and join a foreign country, so forget that.

[iheartthed]

It might be unconstitutional to set residency requirements. But it's not unconstitutional to set two different income tax classes. In theory, they could set tax rates for non-residents to be prohibitively high and for residents to be much lower as an incentive.

And they could also set a 4-year phase-in period. So it's not like you have to move out tomorrow.

And trust me...the only reason why I'm bringing this up isn't because Joann Watson said it. It's because Orr is now in charge. And if Orr says to Snyder, "Look...I don't think this is fixable without a major cut in structural expenses combined with a giant infusion of capital to accomplish the restructuring"...then it might open the door to options that didn't exist before.

I'm not even saying I'm in favor of it. But just talking out loud about pro's and con's.

I believe the state puts a cap on the rate at which local municipalities can tax income.

[Drexciya68]

Detroit needs the BEST to work for the City. Not just the best of those who are now willing to live within its borders. I saw what happened to DPD from the mid 1970s through the 1980s with massive corruption from top to bottom. Many of those crooks in the DPD, Mayors office, etc had alternative homes in the burbs, Canada, etc that were bought with stolen [[from Detroit) funds anyways. Hopefully new talent throughout Detroit will come from all corners of Michigan and the Country. Not just from Detroit.

[jolla]

Detroit is so littered with vacant buildings, someone could easily purchase a $1,000 house and never live there. I know that was always the case, but there are even fewer means to enforce the residency requirement now.

The employees would pay more income tax and those properties would be paying property tax. Good 'nuff for me!

[313WX]

The employees would pay more income tax and those properties would be paying property tax. Good 'nuff for me!

Yep, that's the way I'm looking at it too. Not to mention they MUST legally count themselves as Detroiters in the census. Who cares if they have alternative homes in the suburbs?

[corktownyuppie]

Yep, that's the way I'm looking at it too. Not to mention they MUST legally count themselves as Detroiters in the census. Who cares if they have alternative homes in the suburbs?

Lot of good points here. Especially 1953's insight on having to weigh the best possible employees vs. only those who are willing to live here.

One thing that needs to be in the equation is something that you bring up here, 313WX. Having a police officer live in the city isn't just about income tax revenue or property revenue. It also means that you have another cop living in the neighborhood. So even when he/she is off-duty...still. You have a cop living in the neighborhood.

You also have the intangible positives of trust-building and relationship building that you get when people are forced to interact with each other more. There's definitely an intangible value to having police officers feel an emotional connection to the neighborhood and for residents to have working trust in law enforcement.

Of course, it's complicated, because it's not like when police/fire were living in the city everyone was holding hands and singing Kumbaya.

But still, from a political point of view, Detroit needs to be a more diverse city if we are ever going to have cooperative relationships with neighboring municipalities. Diverse isn't code for people of color. I mean like actual diversity and integration.

East English Village and U-D Jesuit were no Utopian role models. But at the very minimum, it taught me at a very early age that people of different ethnicity and race can live side by side. Those formative experiences shape much which we need in order to have healthy [[or at least, less dysfunctional) political relationships in this state.