Rogell Golf Course

**softailrider** · April-26-13, 02:36 AM

The church ran that course into the ground. When the city was running it, the course was always packed on weekends and busy during the week. I know this because I played there.

I could never understand how Kwame was allowed to sell that course to the church anyway. The city has had American Golf running Rackham and Rouge for decades now. They're doing a great job. Both those courses are in remarkable condition for city municipals.

What happened with Rogell is just a travesty.

**p69rrh51** · April-26-13, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

The church ran that course into the ground. When the city was running it, the course was always packed on weekends and busy during the week. I know this because I played there.

I could never understand how Kwame was allowed to sell that course to the church anyway. The city has had American Golf running Rackham and Rouge for decades now. They're doing a great job. Both those courses are in remarkable condition for city municipals.

What happened with Rogell is just a travesty.

I am not a golfer but I agree its a tragedy! Donald Ross design courses are a treasure and with all the vacant land in the city one would think the company operating the cemetery could find land other places in the city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...signed_courses

**dtowncitylover** · April-26-13, 07:54 AM

Here's the story...

http://www.freep.com/article/2013042...ecome-cemetery

**Honky Tonk** · April-26-13, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

The church ran that course into the ground. When the city was running it, the course was always packed on weekends and busy during the week. I know this because I played there.

I could never understand how Kwame was allowed to sell that course to the church anyway. The city has had American Golf running Rackham and Rouge for decades now. They're doing a great job. Both those courses are in remarkable condition for city municipals.

What happened with Rogell is just a travesty.

A cemetery would be way more lucrative, people would be dieing to get in.

**Danny** · April-26-13, 12:21 PM

That's Greater Grace Temple's calling. There's no money to be made from a golf course. So a world's biggest graveyard will do.

**Bham1982** · April-26-13, 12:39 PM

Golf courses are struggling everywhere, even in affluent areas. There's a glut of golf courses in the U.S., and interest in golf is down among under-40 crowd, so lots of problems. And I imagine a decayed golf course on 7 mile in Detroit isn't exactly competitive with all the cheap golf options in the region.

**canuck** · April-26-13, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

A cemetery would be way more lucrative, people would be dieing to get in.

Yeah, I can see the bumper stickers that say; "I'd rather be dying". lol

**poobert** · April-26-13, 02:14 PM

For being a purported fucking genius, this guy couldn't run a golf course, apparently:
http://www.greatergrace.org/index.ph...253&Itemid=228

Too bad the "36 million dollar ministry complex" can't be taxed.

Shollin · April-26-13, 02:22 PM

I'm not a religious person but how do these churches get so wealthy? How is a church able to afford a 2 million dollar golf course and a 36 million dollar church?

**313WX** · April-26-13, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I'm not a religious person but how do these churches get so wealthy? How is a church able to afford a 2 million dollar golf course and a 36 million dollar church?

A LOT of foolish people giving their entire paychecks over to "their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

You have a city filled to the brim with poor blacks who are descendants of southern bible belt immigrants who need some type of hope in ther lives within a city that's stuck in perpetual purgatory. Thus, you see a church on every corner with preachers driving around in Cadillacs eager to preach the good word to them.

[[sorry if I offended anyone, I hit the wine bottle tonight).

**p69rrh51** · April-26-13, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

A LOT of foolish people giving their entire paychecks over to "their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

You have a city filled to the brim with poor blacks who are descendants of southern bible belt immigrants who need some type of hope in ther lives within a city that's stuck in perpetual purgatory. Thus, you see a church on every corner with preachers driving around in Cadillacs eager to preach the good word to them.

[[sorry if I offended anyone, I hit the wine bottle tonight).

From my perspective the preachers were preservationists by accident. They saved many corner banks[[most were designed by well known local architects) and storefronts.
With the sale of land for tree farming and 40+ sq. miles of vacant land in the city I would think the city would want a company to come in and redevelop the open vacant land for a cemetery. To me its a win/win the city gets someone else to service the property with hardly any drain on city services. Why close an historic golf course when there is plenty of land available?

**softailrider** · April-26-13, 08:25 PM

I get angry every time I think about this. That course could be very profitable, as Rackham and Rouge Park still are, and Rogell used to be if it wasn't run [[ and I'm using the word run in a real loose fashion) by a bunch of Bozo's.

How much would it cost to build that golf course today? That thought alone gives me a migrane. Just try and hire a designed along the lines of Donald Ross. The course is all there, like it's always been, it needs some grooming, some TLC to be magnificent again. I'm serious, it was a nice freakin course, a beautiful layout.

Before they sold it to that church it was like every other course around here - busy. If it wasn't transformed into a fucked up cow pasture it still would be.

**ThosWolfe** · April-26-13, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

For being a purported fucking genius, this guy couldn't run a golf course, apparently:
http://www.greatergrace.org/index.ph...253&Itemid=228

Too bad the "36 million dollar ministry complex" can't be taxed.

A few years back, plans were announced to sell Rackham Golf Course by the zoo. Public outcry seemed to put a stop to that. Meanwhile, at the same time, a deal was cut to sell Rogell to Greater Grace. There was no publicity until the deal was done. The Rackham plan was probably a ruse to hide what was happening with Rogell. $2.1 million for 120 acres of raw land! That's only $17,500 per acre.
When Greater Grace bought the Edgewater Park property, they announced plans to build a senior housing complex on the park like setting. That plan was acceptable to the neighborhood. A 4,000 seat auditorium with just a few parking spots would not have been! The neighborhood streets are jammed with cars parking in any spot they can find whenever there are church services.
When Greater Grace bought Rogell, they announced plans to clean up the course, correcting a few years of poor maintenance by the city. The news stories all said they were looking forward to operating the golf course. Now the news story says they never desired to operate a golf course! Oh, and that the property was derelict, used as a dumping ground? Perhaps the grass wasn't cut often enough, but the course was not debris-strewn. Maybe in some of the wooded areas...
[[ " A cemetery will be an asset to the neighborhood" ???) Nearby Grand Lawn fell into disrepair.
For planning purposes, a cemetery is permanent. The golf course could be maintained as a golf course, or parkland, or reduced in size if housing is added.

**softailrider** · April-26-13, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

A cemetery would be way more lucrative, people would be dieing to get in.

Wow......I never heard that dieing to get in joke before. That's really funny.

**Honky Tonk** · April-26-13, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Wow......I never heard that dieing to get in joke before. That's really funny.

Easy, rider.....

**szla** · April-27-13, 03:22 PM

Rogell was a great course. When the city privatized all the other courses it owned it kept Rogell and saddled it labor costs the other courses run by Golf Courses of America [[?) didn't have. They still ran it well. In the winter the mangers or somebody used to set a real nice cross country skiing course. Rogell is on some of the hilliest land in the city. It really is hilly. I would estimate that at least 1/3 of the land is in a flood plain and could not be used for graves. Maybe more. Grand lawn cemetary is not very well maintained, the pediments holding the wrought iron fence in place are degenerating beyond belief. Drive down Telegraph between 6 mile and Grand River for a good view. Mt Hazel right across Lahser I believe is owned or at least maintained by the city. It is the oldest cemetary [[1836) in the city of Detroit with the possible exception of Redford cemetary on Telegraph and Puritan which is part in Redford. I think it might be older. They are both older then Elmwood. Most of the cemeteries do not have a shortage of spaces. There doesn't appear to be a shortage of cemeteries. So I wonder what kind of scam this sale is based on. A golf course managed by GCA would do a very job putting it back to a great course like it was. The course is neglected because there is virtually no maintenance. Golfers will play it once and never again. Crime or the fear of crime are not stopping people from playing it. The shape of it is the reason. If it was in the shape of Rouge GC people would play it.

**softailrider** · April-27-13, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Golf courses are struggling everywhere, even in affluent areas. There's a glut of golf courses in the U.S., and interest in golf is down among under-40 crowd, so lots of problems. And I imagine a decayed golf course on 7 mile in Detroit isn't exactly competitive with all the cheap golf options in the region.

You should fire up your Dodge Neon and take a ride down to Plymouth and Burt Roads. On a beautiful Saturday like today Rouge Park golf course will be jammed, so will Rackham and Chandler Park. On a not so beautiful weather weekend those courses will still be crowded.

**downtownguy** · April-27-13, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Golf courses are struggling everywhere, even in affluent areas. There's a glut of golf courses in the U.S., and interest in golf is down among under-40 crowd, so lots of problems. And I imagine a decayed golf course on 7 mile in Detroit isn't exactly competitive with all the cheap golf options in the region.

I would hazard a guess that if golf is experiencing any growth, it's among minorities. So, Bham, how about we turn those golf courses in your backyard into graveyards?

**Zug** · April-28-13, 10:00 AM

This is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while. The city doesn't need a cemetery. Why the hell did the church buy a golf course if it didn't want a golf course? And if you're going to sell, why not sell to someone that operates golf courses? I have no clue about how golf courses are owned/operated...so if that's not possible, perhaps see what the community wants on the property.

At the end of the day, it feels unbelievable that the only possible development is a cemetery. This cemetery company obviously has more money to give the Church than others...but a church shouldn't be about making making money for themselves at the expense of their community.

**Gannon** · April-28-13, 10:38 AM

For many years, I've been expecting to see the fruits of the abuses wrought by dirty pastors in this town. The ones who allowed themselves to be bought by McNamara, then later by those who saw their power guaranteed when the man in the pulpit mentioned certain names favorably to their flock during election season.

This is clearly part of one of those endeavors. The timing of this centers around our most recently convicted mayor, right?! Every real estate deal done by the city during that entire time should be reviewed, and the obvious fraud reversed. Is there a legal mechanism which can be used to recover the untold millions of dollars worth of real estate purchased by family and friends of Kwhyme?!

I am certain there is an empire hiding in plain sight here.

**Gannon** · April-28-13, 10:41 AM

Starting with those last five pastors or so who stuck with Kwhyme until the ugly end. This is not such a tough trail to follow.

**Cliffy** · April-28-13, 12:19 PM

This has to be some sort of scheme where the church is going to establish a partnership with the cemetery to bury its customers there. The church will get a commission for each dead person that gets buried there from the church etc... Its going to be a never ending stream of income.

**313WX** · April-28-13, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

This has to be some sort of scheme where the church is going to establish a partnership with the cemetery to bury its customers there. The church will get a commission for each dead person that gets buried there from the church etc... Its going to be a never ending stream of income.

On top of that, the company that its being sold is African-American owned [[essentially, selling land to a good buddy at a sweet price).

It's nothing more than Cronyism at play.

**Cliffy** · April-28-13, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

On top of that, the company that its being sold is African-American owned [[essentially, selling land to a good buddy at a sweet price).

It's nothing more than Cronyism at play.

Don't forget that cemeteries pay no property taxes on top of that. The solution in life seems to be to open a church in Detroit.

Shollin · April-28-13, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Don't forget that cemeteries pay no property taxes on top of that. The solution in life seems to be to open a church in Detroit.

I guess that's why I see so many churches in Detroit. When I was young we went to church and the church was old and cramped. The pastor lived in the church and didn't even own a car. Now I see people like that Marvin Winans driving a Lexus and wearing expensive jewelry. I just don't see how a man of God who is suppose to deliver God's message becomes so wealthy. It's almost as if they are hired speakers than actual religious leaders. Not surprisingly these ministers and churches operate in poor areas. Do they really need such an expensive place of worship? Of the 36 million they spent on their church, that would've went a long way in the community.