ACLU complains Detroit police dump homeless people outside city

**xrockerboy** · April-20-13, 10:37 AM

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/348442

Is this why they aren't that many homeless people recently?

**Wesley Mouch** · April-20-13, 11:00 AM

Unacceptable if true. Street people deserve a better solution.

Tales of woe from the ACLU should always be doubted, however, since every situation looks like abuse to them.

But its too early to address. The complaint hasn't yet been filed with DPD. That's not a fair tactic against those who we expect to work responsibly on our behalf.

**Eric_c** · April-20-13, 11:06 AM

You know what? We've got more than our fair share of indigents here in the city. I'm sooooo glad they're dumping these people off away from where I live. I hope to God they move the methadone clinics, NSOs, and VA facilities to Oakland County, too. They have enough money out there to handle 'em. If the residents out there in the woods don't like it, they can move farther north. Until the state reopens the mental health hospitals, this is what everyone deserves. This is what we have wrought.

**scottn55** · April-20-13, 11:32 AM

Some might argue that they're doing them a favor...

**antongast** · April-20-13, 11:39 AM

You all should maybe think about reading the article before you post about it.

**downtownguy** · April-20-13, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Eric_c

You know what? We've got more than our fair share of indigents here in the city. I'm sooooo glad they're dumping these people off away from where I live. I hope to God they move the methadone clinics, NSOs, and VA facilities to Oakland County, too. They have enough money out there to handle 'em. If the residents out there in the woods don't like it, they can move farther north. Until the state reopens the mental health hospitals, this is what everyone deserves. This is what we have wrought.

Wow........

**Hermod** · April-20-13, 01:10 PM

Before the homeless advocates made a stink and put a stop to it, the Fort Lauderdale cops used to pick up panhandlers and take them thirty miles out into the Everglades. After a long walk back at night among the snakes, alligators, and panthers, the vagrants would come to the conclusion that they needed to find a friendlier jurisdiction than Fort Lauderdale.

**313WX** · April-20-13, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

Wow........

Agreed!!!!

I suspect we'll see more responses like that somehow justifying these actions.

**DetroitPlanner** · April-20-13, 01:44 PM

This article is crap:
"On one occasion officers said they were taking Sheehan to a shelter, but instead dropped him off at the boundary between Detroit and River Rouge on Fort Street—eight miles from where he was picked up."

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz2R1xXGBVS

Fort Street don't go to River Rouge!

**detroitsgwenivere** · April-20-13, 02:02 PM

While living in the Corridor during the 90's, it was common to see truck loads of indigent folks being dumped on the corner, county sheriffs from all over the south half of MI were doing this for years. And lots of people complained about it: the neighbors, City Council, the Mayors office, the social service providers. Mainly because most of these folks needed a ton of expensive care, and Detroit simply did not have the resources to deal with it.

Nothing was done, nobody cared, we just dealt with it, and Detroit slowly became zombieland. This is just one part of the larger Detroit narrative, about how our city became SE Michigan's DUMP. Everything that people don't want in their backyards, lets just dump it in Detroit, human beings are no exception.

Now that Downtown has become desirable to the business community and "urban professionals" people are shocked to find out that these same tactics are being applied in our area. It's simple, follow the money folks.

**Blueidone** · April-20-13, 02:32 PM

I have friends living in Phoenix, AZ...they said that indigent folks from all over are literally bussed in to their city when the weather up north gets cold.

I don't like to think that this is happening, but I can see it from a police perspective. There needs to be a better alternative, but until mental health issues are adequately addressed in this state, it will continue to happen, I'm sure.

**Chicago48** · April-20-13, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by xrockerboy

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/348442

Is this why they aren't that many homeless people recently?

Detroit needs to follow NY's lead and just take the homeless to a center, make a phone call to a family member and ask if they can take them in. NY has great success with their program.

**RickBeall** · April-20-13, 03:36 PM

Sounds like a good program. Most people have relatives somewhere. And if the relatives are in a far off state, all the beter, give them a one way ticket.

**Hermod** · April-20-13, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by RickBeall

Sounds like a good program. Most people have relatives somewhere. And if the relatives are in a far off state, all the beter, give them a one way ticket.

One of the problems with the homeless is that they have often by their conduct worn out their welcome with all of their family members. I would like to think that if I were to become destitute, one of my kids, my grandkids, or my sisters would find a spare room for me [[and I would have to be on my best behavior not to wear out my welcome.

**mwilbert** · April-20-13, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

One of the problems with the homeless is that they have often by their conduct worn out their welcome with all of their family members. I would like to think that if I were to become destitute, one of my kids, my grandkids, or my sisters would find a spare room for me [[and I would have to be on my best behavior not to wear out my welcome.

I realize that there are a variety of reasons that people become homeless, but even if a homeless person has some kind of family available, a lot of families are going to have trouble caring for someone who is drug-addicted and/or mentally ill, and even ones that might be able to take on the challenge are likely to need support. It obviously isn't right to kidnap people and dump them in random locations, but if it is true that we have 5000 shelter spots and 20000 homeless, we clearly have a big problem beyond that.

**wolverine** · April-20-13, 04:49 PM

Just like to point out that shelters and free apartments don't always address the complete problem.

By day it's panhandling. A city can finance their needs like access to two meals a day and a roof over their head. But as for wants it takes a job. There's plenty of panhandlers where I live and you get to know them and sadly see them at the stores spending that money on their addictions. Later that night they'll head home to a warm apartment provided by the city or worse, a shelter [[which are terrible places). But it's not often I see a homeless person in a doorway.

Many cities pay for these apartments or SROs through developer contributions on high end developments. For example a condo tower can be legally permitted to violate zoning code so as long as they throw $1 million in the housing fund for homeless

**Gistok** · April-20-13, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

This article is crap:
"On one occasion officers said they were taking Sheehan to a shelter, but instead dropped him off at the boundary between Detroit and River Rouge on Fort Street—eight miles from where he was picked up."

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz2R1xXGBVS

Fort Street don't go to River Rouge!

Good point DetroitPlanner... also the guy that crossed the Lodge Freeway and then walked 2 hours back to downtown from SW Detroit... someone needs to take a look at a map about the location of the Lodge Fwy...

**Wesley Mouch** · April-20-13, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Good point DetroitPlanner... also the guy that crossed the Lodge Freeway and then walked 2 hours back to downtown from SW Detroit... someone needs to take a look at a map about the location of the Lodge Fwy...

As I posted earlier, I don't like the idea of 'dumping' -- but we don't know what's really happening here.

We also need to realize that there aren't many good alternatives. So I'm not willing to be overly critical of those who have to deal with this problem.

The worst part here is the 'help' from 'do gooders'. Providing things to those who haven't cared for themselves doesn't solve anything -- in fact it makes it worse.

I recommend two things:

1) A strong mental health system that can actively and forcefully medicate those who are truly sick and don't tend to themselves.

2) A system of shelters [[best provided by charities, not govt) that provides the absolute lowest level of care possible. It should not be pleasant. Not as nice as jail. It should be so bad that you really want to leave.

**Ray1936** · April-20-13, 06:58 PM

Ah, me, memories.

Fifty years ago, it was against state law to be a vagrant. That's what we called homeless people back then. There were not near as many then as there are now. Anyway, as a police officer, if you found one in a vacant building, you had to arrest them for 'vagrancy', and appear in court the next morning against them. They usually pled guilty and got ten days or so in the Detroit House of Correction, which was one of the better part of their lives. But as often as not, what police officer wanted to finish up a midnight shift by spending the next four hours in court against some poor buzzard? Not that many. So it was not unusual if you came across one to just take him on the other side of the Boulevard into the next precinct, get him a coffee, and tell him to stay on that side. They usually did, until that precinct came across him and then.....well, ad nauseam, ad absurdum.

**Lowell** · April-20-13, 07:06 PM

What a sad commentary on what our flag-waving flag-pinned politicians like to trumpet as the greatest and richest country in the world. The discussion is not about why are there homeless in a land of plenty, even excess. Instead it is about how to about how to dump them.

**gazhekwe** · April-20-13, 07:08 PM

2) A system of shelters [[best provided by charities, not govt) that provides the absolute lowest level of care possible. It should not be pleasant. Not as nice as jail. It should be so bad that you really want to leave.

Sounds like the Poor Houses. We had those well into the 50s, I remember them. They were set up on the working farm model. The residents had to work their shift at something, sewing, farming, cleaning, cooking, lots of different chores to keep the place going.

As for wanting to leave, many homeless do not want to be under controls of any kind. They wouldn't stay in the place and we would still have the same people on the streets. The problem is multi-faceted, one solution does not fit all.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-20-13, 07:27 PM

Unless you buy into the theory that the rich have stolen all the money and that's the source of all problems... you'd probably agree that civic vagrancy has increased over the last 50 years. So what we're doing isn't working. Time for creative new solutions. As gazhekwe says, we need diversity of solutions.

**mwilbert** · April-20-13, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

2) A system of shelters [[best provided by charities, not govt) that provides the absolute lowest level of care possible. It should not be pleasant. Not as nice as jail. It should be so bad that you really want to leave.

Why would you want to treat homeless people less well than criminals? Both on the basis of fairness, and on the basis of incentives [[let's not encourage people to commit crimes to get better living conditions) this seems mistaken.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-20-13, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Why would you want to treat homeless people less well than criminals? Both on the basis of fairness, and on the basis of incentives [[let's not encourage people to commit crimes to get better living conditions) this seems mistaken.

Because I care more about the homeless than criminals. I do not suggest abuse nor torture. I want them to want to find a way to improve themselves [[unless they are sick).

**Jimaz** · April-20-13, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Unless you buy into the theory that the rich have stolen all the money and that's the source of all problems....

Which suggests that you've bought into the theory that they haven't and it's not?

Are you truly unaware of the recent "global financial meltdown" and its origin?

Why did you select that particular username?