Is Detroit Safe or Not? What parts?—Trying to understand the hype

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...Also, if we live in Detroit Public Schools area, we’d be planning on private school.

Good decision. DPS is in turmoil.

Bear in mind that school districts in Michigan are not the same as civic boundaries. Oak Park schools cover part of adjacent Ferndale. I do believe the Detroit School District does match City boundaries -- anyone know otherwise?

[p69rrh51]

As usual I have to suggest the Cabbage Patch in Grosse Pointe Park. You get many of the amenities from some of the other neighborhoods suggested on this thread. The plus is far better police response, far lower insurance rates although they are not lowest in the metro area. Decent snow removal. The schools!! And of course the 2 waterfront resident only parks. All that and you are only 10-15 minutes ish from downtown.

[Bham1982]

You value urban life and have experience with it. It's not rocket science, though people here are acting all coy and baffled. People here are going to try to drag you through the mud, kicking and screaming, to Bloomfarmingham Hillsdale Oak. Understand that while Detroit is indeed very dangerous and sucky in many ways, this is an extremely suburban-centric region. To many people, going to - let alone living in - the city is unheard of. If you like urban living, I can tell you you will likely be unhappy in the suburbs.

This isn't directed specifically at you, because I've seen many people do it on DYes, but I don't get the conflating of "urban" with "slum" or "ghetto".

Pretty much nothing your writing about has anything to do with "urban" life, but rather has to do with people's perceptions re. high concentrations of lower income people in a metropolitan setting [[i.e. ghetto or whatever term you want to apply).

Detroit [[the city) isn't urban. It just isn't. If you were to take the 1,000 largest cities in the world, Detroit would be like #994 on the urban-o-scale [[and all the bottom 20 would be U.S. cities). The difference between Corktown and St. Clair Shores, in the grand scheme of things [[speaking strictly urbanity) is rather slight. In both cases, you have a little single family house, on a little yard, with one or two cars, and offstreet parking, and all the retail is separated from the residential, and you could walk if you wanted to, but that isn't the primary mode of neighborhood circulation.

The real reason people have issues with the city proper isn't in any way related to relative urbanity. They don't have the same issues with San Francisco, NYC, or whatever random city in Europe, yet those places are all vastly more urban.

[piczka]

Grosse Pointe or Windsor, Ontario.

[poobert]

This isn't directed specifically at you, because I've seen many people do it on DYes, but I don't get the conflating of "urban" with "slum" or "ghetto".

Pretty much nothing your writing about has anything to do with "urban" life, but rather has to do with people's perceptions re. high concentrations of lower income people in a metropolitan setting [[i.e. ghetto or whatever term you want to apply).

Detroit [[the city) isn't urban. It just isn't. If you were to take the 1,000 largest cities in the world, Detroit would be like #994 on the urban-o-scale [[and all the bottom 20 would be U.S. cities). The difference between Corktown and St. Clair Shores, in the grand scheme of things [[speaking strictly urbanity) is rather slight. In both cases, you have a little single family house, on a little yard, with one or two cars, and offstreet parking, and all the retail is separated from the residential, and you could walk if you wanted to, but that isn't the primary mode of neighborhood circulation.

The real reason people have issues with the city proper isn't in any way related to relative urbanity. They don't have the same issues with San Francisco, NYC, or whatever random city in Europe, yet those places are all vastly more urban.

I know you're an expert on all things everything, but for starters, and finishers, Corktown doesn't have driveways.

[TexasT]

This isn't directed specifically at you, because I've seen many people do it on DYes, but I don't get the conflating of "urban" with "slum" or "ghetto".

Pretty much nothing your writing about has anything to do with "urban" life, but rather has to do with people's perceptions re. high concentrations of lower income people in a metropolitan setting [[i.e. ghetto or whatever term you want to apply).

Detroit [[the city) isn't urban. It just isn't. If you were to take the 1,000 largest cities in the world, Detroit would be like #994 on the urban-o-scale [[and all the bottom 20 would be U.S. cities). The difference between Corktown and St. Clair Shores, in the grand scheme of things [[speaking strictly urbanity) is rather slight. In both cases, you have a little single family house, on a little yard, with one or two cars, and offstreet parking, and all the retail is separated from the residential, and you could walk if you wanted to, but that isn't the primary mode of neighborhood circulation.

The real reason people have issues with the city proper isn't in any way related to relative urbanity. They don't have the same issues with San Francisco, NYC, or whatever random city in Europe, yet those places are all vastly more urban.

The neighborhoods aren't "urban" of course, but Detroit certainly is. It's about proximity to things a real city offers. Culture, sports, entertainment, dining, diversity of people and cultures, events, etc. Sorry, you don't get those in St. Clair Shores to the extent you do living near downtown Detroit, where I can catch an off-Broadway show at the Fisher or Fox, go to a pro football, baseball or hockey game, see Van Gogh's "Bedroom in Arles" at the DIA on loan from the Louvre, catch a wide variety of local music acts, buy some kiszka from Srodeck's Polish deli in Hamtramck or fresh tortillas from Los Galanes in Mexicantown or fried saganaki in Greektown, or buy my vegetables fresh from the farmer in the largest farmers market in the country at Eastern Market and my meats fresh from the butcher in Gratiot Central Market, attend the Hoedown, Jazzfest, EMF, and Blues Fest, or run into the wide variety of people I've met from all over the country with such differences in opinions and mindsets [[which is extremely hard to find in the suburbs) - I can do all of that within 5 minutes of my house [[maybe 10 min to get to Hamtramk) and a $5-10 cab ride back home after I've had a few drinks at Rodin or Roast or Motor City Wine or Sugar Shack or wherever I go for the night. But really, it's about the variety of people and opinions that I meet - I like the interactions I get here in Detroit - and the OP indicates that diversity is important to him as well.

Yes, you can drive from the suburbs down to do these things but you don't do them as often when it's such a pain and I like to be out 3-5 nights a week doing these things. That's just what my life is like. If these things are valuable to you - and I get that they aren't to some people - then living in the city, specifically near downtown, is a must. I couldn't replicate my Chicago-lifestyle [[that I loved) in Birmingham; I can in Detroit. Detroit isn't Chicago or NYC or San Fran, no, but after living in Chicago for years, I'm pretty damn satisfied here. It's not the most urban, but it still has a lot of remnants left from its heyday when it was one of the top cities in the country that are still going strong today. If you enjoy your life in Oakland and Philly, you'll be just fine with the level of urban that Detroit supplies. If you've lived in a major city, you get it - sometimes I'm unsure if suburbanites understand what people who are drawn to the city are actually attracted to.

My firm has an office in Birmingham that I sometimes work out of. My in-laws lived in Plymouth and are now in Northville. I have spent a decent amount of time in these areas - they are nice yes, but I'd be miserable if I lived there. Just depends on what you like.

[Zacha341]

I like Plymouth... have a cousin in bordering Northville. Yeah it would be a commute but for some that is ok. It all depends on what you choose.

I'd still lock my garage...... even if I lived there.

Of all the choices, I chose Plymouth. It has a cute little downtown, a lovely stock of older homes, an involved community and a low crime rate.

too bad it is a long way away. If you have a job downtown, the commute could take an hour depending on conditions, but you would know your lawn mower was still in your unlocked garage when you got home.

[Zacha341]

That's right HT. Thanks. Both heading south take you to the joy of Ferry Pk... LOL!

Both 12th Street and Trumbull run North and South.

[Honky Tonk]

jmc247, You don't offer up enough information for anyone to seriously help you. You post little bits of this and that, but not enough info as to what you're REALLY looking for, and how much BS you and your family are willing to put up with. Your poll is all over the map, from you can leave your doors open @ night, to having to carry a piece when you go down to the corner store. The Detroit area runs black to white, with varying shades of grey. [[NO racial implications). If you could be a little more specific, I'm sure the people here will be able to help you out. Like the old adage, one man's trash is another man's treasure.

[p69rrh51]

The neighborhoods aren't "urban" of course, but Detroit certainly is. It's about proximity to things a real city offers. Culture, sports, entertainment, dining, diversity of people and cultures, events, etc. Sorry, you don't get those in St. Clair Shores to the extent you do living near downtown Detroit, where I can catch an off-Broadway show at the Fisher or Fox, go to a pro football, baseball or hockey game, see Van Gogh's "Bedroom in Arles" at the DIA on loan from the Louvre, catch a wide variety of local music acts, buy some kiszka from Srodeck's Polish deli in Hamtramck or fresh tortillas from Los Galanes in Mexicantown or fried saganaki in Greektown, or buy my vegetables fresh from the farmer in the largest farmers market in the country at Eastern Market and my meats fresh from the butcher in Gratiot Central Market, attend the Hoedown, Jazzfest, EMF, and Blues Fest, or run into the wide variety of people I've met from all over the country with such differences in opinions and mindsets [[which is extremely hard to find in the suburbs) - I can do all of that within 5 minutes of my house [[maybe 10 min to get to Hamtramk) and a $5-10 cab ride back home after I've had a few drinks at Rodin or Roast or Motor City Wine or Sugar Shack or wherever I go for the night.

Yes, you can drive from the suburbs down to do these things but you don't do them as often when it's such a pain and I like to be out 3-5 nights a week doing these things. That's just what my life is like. If these things are valuable to you - and I get that they aren't to some people - then living in the city, specifically near downtown, is a must. I couldn't replicate my Chicago-lifestyle [[that I loved) in Birmingham; I can in Detroit. Detroit isn't Chicago or NYC or San Fran, no, but after living in Chicago for years, I'm pretty damn satisfied here. It's not the most urban, but it still has a lot of remnants left from its heyday when it was one of the top cities in the country that are still going strong today. If you enjoy your life in Oakland and Philly, you'll be just fine with the level of urban that Detroit supplies. If you've lived in a major city, you get it.

My firm has an office in Birmingham that I sometimes work out of. My in-laws lived in Plymouth and are now in Northville. I have spent a decent amount of time in these areas - they are nice yes, but I'd be miserable if I lived there. Just depends on what you like.

TexasT that also depends on the burb you live in and how much you are willing to travel. I have lived for 51 years on the eastside 75% of that time in Grosse Pointe. What you describe I have been doing since I received my driver's license, and for most of the long time GP residents I know its no big deal to go downtown. In fact many would rather go downtown than to some of the popular burbs. I can also get my feather bowling/Belgian Rabbit/Mussels/Belgian Ale fix at the Cadieux Cafe. The Cafe is walking distance from my home. There are plenty of great places to find food and entertainment all over the metro area.

[TexasT]

TexasT that also depends on the burb you live in and how much you are willing to travel. I have lived for 51 years on the eastside 75% of that time in Grosse Pointe. What you describe I have been doing since I received my driver's license, and for most of the long time GP residents I know its no big deal to go downtown. In fact many would rather go downtown than to some of the popular burbs. I can also get my feather bowling/Belgian Rabbit/Mussels/Belgian Ale fix at the Cadieux Cafe. The Cafe is walking distance from my home. There are plenty of great places to find food and entertainment all over the metro area.

Yes, you can do some of those things in GP if you drive downtown, but like I said, I've been in the city too long and anything more than a ten minute commute kills me, lol! I like being within walking distance or a 5 minute dive/cab ride away. If it took me 20+ minutes to get there and 20+ minutes back, I wouldn't go to half the things I go to, as I do have a husband and a job to tend to. That and I really like [[most of) the Detroiters I meet and the random folks who are open-minded enough to visit the city; it's definitely a self-selecting group. The city serves as a good mixing bowl for diverse conversations, which I find lacking when I'm in non-urban settings.

But if you are doing these things once a week or a few times a month, then yes, some suburbs would be perfect for you. It's all about what you want; what I find annoying is people who can't seem to understand that others appreciate different things. I don't think the suburbs suck - I think they suck for a person like me. Therein lies the difference.

I will admit too, I've some GPers who come downtown who are really cool. I met a 65ish year old couple at Marche du Nain Rouge from GP that I had a good 20 minute discussion with. Cool people. Was that you?

[p69rrh51]

Yes, you can do some of those things in GP if you drive downtown, but like I said, I've been in the city too long and anything more than a ten minute commute kills me, lol! I like being within walking distance or a 5 minute dive/cab ride away. If it took me 20+ minutes to get there and 20+ minutes back, I wouldn't go to half the things I go to, as I do have a husband and a job to tend to. That and I really like [[most of) the Detroiters I meet and the random folks who are open-minded enough to visit the city; it's definitely a self-selecting group. The city serves as a good mixing bowl for diverse conversations, which I find lacking when I'm in non-urban settings.

But if you are doing these things once a week or a few times a month, then yes, some suburbs would be perfect for you. It's all about what you want; what I find annoying is people who can't seem to understand that others appreciate different things. I don't think the suburbs suck - I think they suck for a person like me. Therein lies the difference.

I will admit too, I've some GPers who come downtown who are really cool. I met a 65ish year old couple at Marche du Nain Rouge from GP that I had a good 20 minute discussion with. Cool people. Was that you?

That was not me I have only been around 51 years. Although I like the 10 minute commute time limit[[my commute to work is 10 minutes on a bad day) there are a lot of things to do in and outside of the city that are not that far away. I hate to see you limit yourself as the metro area has quite a bit to offer! For me time is not an issue and if its something fun or interesting I will travel anywhere in the metro area.

[Gistok]

Yes, you can do some of those things in GP if you drive downtown, but like I said, I've been in the city too long and anything more than a ten minute commute kills me, lol! I like being within walking distance or a 5 minute dive/cab ride away. If it took me 20+ minutes to get there and 20+ minutes back, I wouldn't go to half the things I go to, as I do have a husband and a job to tend to. That and I really like [[most of) the Detroiters I meet and the random folks who are open-minded enough to visit the city; it's definitely a self-selecting group. The city serves as a good mixing bowl for diverse conversations, which I find lacking when I'm in non-urban settings.

But if you are doing these things once a week or a few times a month, then yes, some suburbs would be perfect for you. It's all about what you want; what I find annoying is people who can't seem to understand that others appreciate different things. I don't think the suburbs suck - I think they suck for a person like me. Therein lies the difference.

I will admit too, I've some GPers who come downtown who are really cool. I met a 65ish year old couple at Marche du Nain Rouge from GP that I had a good 20 minute discussion with. Cool people. Was that you?

Sorry... but you still HAVE TO GET INTO THE CAR... 10 minutes or 20 minutes... it's not that big of a deal. I do live in SCS... and am only 20 minites to downtown, RO or Southfield. In fact I am closer to downtown [[time wise) than the far northwestern side of Detroit. [[Of course living near I-94/I-696 helps.)

But I go downtown quite often. And as for traveling... for me it's only 5 minutes to any kind of store you can imagine. The time you spend on doing your shopping is the time I save so that I can go downtown more! Six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other....

[TexasT]

Sorry... but you still HAVE TO GET INTO THE CAR... 10 minutes or 20 minutes... it's not that big of a deal. I do live in SCS... and am only 20 minites to downtown, RO or Southfield. In fact I am closer to downtown [[time wise) than the far northwestern side of Detroit. [[Of course living near I-94/I-696 helps.)

But I go downtown quite often. And as for traveling... for me it's only 5 minutes to any kind of store you can imagine. The time you spend on doing your shopping is the time I save so that I can go downtown more! Six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other....

I specified living near downtown. Yes, if you live in Palmer Woods, this doesn't apply. And no, you do not have to still get in the car. I walk to Midtown. If you are in Midtown, obviously you are within walking distance. I also bike. And I take cabs pretty often too when I go out at night - don't even want to know what a cab to Royal Oak costs. And even with driving, yes there's a difference between less than 2 miles and the 20 miles it is between downtown and SCS; ten minutes roundtrip versus an hour affects whether you really want to go to that bistro for lunch or that talk by some author at the Main Library or that post-work happy hour [[or even having to drive home from happy hour if it becomes happy hourS, which it often does!).

And I do all my regular shopping in Detroit, almost always again within 5 minutes of me. Not sure what you mean...

And one more time, I'm not saying the burbs suck - no need to get defensive. But for my lifestyle, I'd be very unhappy in most suburbs.

[TexasT]

I hate to see you limit yourself as the metro area has quite a bit to offer! For me time is not an issue and if its something fun or interesting I will travel anywhere in the metro area.

I sometimes leave the city to go to cool things - I'm certainly not anti-suburb. I find the "city vs burb" mentality of the metro area to be extremely toxic and bad for everyone. So I don't engage in it.

It's just a matter of convenience and what I prefer to surround myself with. I like the diversity of people and opinions I find in the city. I don't find that in suburbs mentioned here like Plymouth [[again, I had fun when I visited my in-laws, but not for me).

[Django]

Wish you could have been on this site 6 or 7 years ago, you would have gotten a much warmer welcome and some encouragement . Seems Detroityes is now full of armchair Detroiters with not much good to say.

If you lived in Oakland you should do fine here. I lived South of you in West Oakland not far from Emeryville for about a year and conditions are very similar.

Good luck and welcome.

[mwilbert]

I usually suggest people check out University District/Sherwood Forest/Palmer Woods/Green Acres if they are particularly interested in nice houses with reasonable safety, but they aren't really best situated for commuting to Dearborn, although to a certain extent that depends on which neighborhood and where in Dearborn--if you are going near the Southfield Freeway, starting from the University District it is pretty quick.

I think Corktown or Woodbridge would be the places I would check out. I generally prefer the look of Woodbridge, [[certainly a matter of taste), but the commute from either to Dearborn should be relatively easy.

[detlump]

If you're working in Dearborn, a nice commute route west is Hines Drive. It runs from Dearborn west to Livonia/Plymouth/Northville. Many Ford workers use it, but it is a flood plain, so when we get a lot of rain, it is closed. It's a pleasant drive though, just watch your speed. Plymouth and Northville are very nice, there are some nice homes in Livonia also on the western side near 275. Livonia is nice in that it has access to 2 major freeways and is centrally located. It's nice for me to be 30 minutes from Canada, the airport, downtown, or most of the metro area. The only tough part is getting to Troy or Auburn Hills, at least for me.

[Gistok]

And one more time, I'm not saying the burbs suck - no need to get defensive. But for my lifestyle, I'd be very unhappy in most suburbs.

Actually we were both being quite polite... you are definitely not one of the "Suburbs suck" crowd!

[coracle]

The questions I would ask about the place I chose are 1) Will it still be safe in 10 years time? 2) Will I be able to sell my house once I've purchased it? 3) How many people are competing to move to where I want to live? 4) How many people have left the area in the last 5 - 10 years?
My choice would be Ann Arbor. I currently live in a suburb about 35 miles NW of Detroit. Detroit Downtown is a good spot to visit for a day out; the suburbs are boooooring. Ann Arbor is a nice "safe" University town.

[TexasT]

Actually we were both being quite polite... you are definitely not one of the "Suburbs suck" crowd!

I took the caps as you yelling at me.

I grew up in a suburb of Houston very similar to Troy. I had a pretty good childhood. I see why some people like it. It just never was and isn't for me.

Detroit has great suburbs though. Way more history than we are privy to down in Texas. My hometown suburb was established in 1976. Not a lot of history there!

[Chicago48]

Ex-Detroiter, now in Chicago for 20 years. Can you get ahold of a RE agent who can show you around the city? Midtown is decent, lots of entertainment, clubs...the Wayne State U and Medical Center are within walking distance of hospitals, the symphony, restaurants.
Other than that try Birmingham, Bloomfield, Royal Oak.

[maverick1]

My goodness I hope some of you don't work for any tourist board in Metro Detroit. Why is it that TexasT [[who is not originally from here)and a few others that live in the city have given the OP more objective info? We can't address the good and bad of Detroit and it's surrounding areas? Every time I see someone looking to relocate to Detroit make a post looking for info to move here it becomes a big pissing contest. Why can't we just give them the info they need ABOUT DETROIT, tell them that it is imperative they visit, and let them make a decision for themselves? Almost all of these posts end up being a city vs. suburb pissing contest and it doesn't look good on us at all. There is no telling how many people looking to relocate here have looked at this forum and thought "damn these people are nuts". Suburbanites, can you talk about the suburbs without knocking Detroit? You have a problem if your only sales pitch is "Detroit sucks and we're better". I stay in Detroit and I know it sucks compared to other CORE CITIES. The browbeating of people that want to stay in the city has to stop. It's not a zero-sum game and I don't know why it's so hard to understand that. I don't dislike suburbs. They're just not for me and others. If suburban life is for you? Great, good. But don't discourage or browbeat those who want to live in the city.

[gnome]

Good post Maverick. The doubled up f yous are tiresome.

could I make a request? Folks, please read the OP. the guy has a baby, is concerned about safety, wants to be able to walk to a downtown area.

Beside downtown, which I would think include Lafayette Park, the only real choices are suburban.

royal oak has a downtown, new center? Not so much. Ditto for Woodbridge. Nice place but it doesn't have a downtown environment. Neither does Mid-town, nor Corktown. Nor Palmer Woods, Indian Village, or St. Clair Shores.

they all may be perfectly sensible, safe, fun and engaging places to live;but they do not fit the OP criteria.

likewise, Ferndale has a burgeoning shopping and entertainment district, but it is a single block wide. That is not a downtown. It is a lovely strip of stores, but 9 mile road isn't a downtown.

now, Royal Oak has a downtown, but with the preponderance of bars makes for few choices for a baby.

Of his listed choices, Plymouth matched requirements. He didn't list Belleville, Grosse ils, Trenton, Monroe, Birmingham or Howell. He didn't ask about Northville, novi or Milford.

I assume the guy is not a moron, has done some research and is looking for feedback on the choices he listed.

this should not be difficult.

In the past, when asked this question, I have said to draw a 5 mile circle around your place of business and look within that circle. As a rule of thumb, any young person moving to a new place is going to be working a ton of hours so spending any additional time commuting is bad for family life.

but he didn't ask where he should live, he asked about a list of places to live.

[Gannon]

My two cents? With a family, in the city...and especially working in Dearborn...I'd vote Corktown. You get your walkable neighborhood, with a not-terrible stroll or jog to downtown and/or the river. EASY commute to Dearborn, with the non-freeway alternative of Michigan Avenue during the bad weather times.

I've grown to be a fan of Grosse Pointe Park, where there are also great areas to walk to...but the commute to Dearborn is a back-buster enough to be a deal-breaker. Hell, sometimes it is difficult making the drive into the city!

And you didn't see enough of Dearborn...but I think if you are predisposed to live in the city, by all means I will encourage that first!


Cheers