Is Detroit Safe or Not? What parts?—Trying to understand the hype

[jmc247]

Hi All,

We need help figuring out what parts of Detroit we should move to.

Detroit has a lot of supporters and a lot of nay-sayers.

Some people offering advice on it are pretty clearly just afraid of big cities [[or people who don’t look like them!), and others are 20-somethings who think being held up at gun-point just makes for a great story.

We’re in between, and we’re having trouble figuring out what the deal is with Detroit, where we’re moving this summer, though we have never visited. Now when I say “safe” I understand that this is partly a matter of luck, acting smart, and being reasonable like any other city, but we know that what part of a city you live in makes a difference.

We’ve lived in Philadelphia [[West Philly, Manayunk, South Philly, Center City) and for the last 7 years in Oakland California [[Piedmont Ave/Temescal, Emeryville) so we’re pretty comfortable with urban life. We like urban life. We don’t mind being hassled for change or seeing a little graffiti. We don’t leave valuables in our car [[which isn’t a brand new Lexus) or take walks at 3AM, and we lock our windows; no big deal.

What we’re concerned about is getting shot, mugged, home-invaded, or other crimes that are way beyond “nuisance.”

So, really, what’s the deal? What parts of Detroit should we consider? We want to be near some cafes and bars and restaurants and in a diverse area, but we also have a 1 year old so safety is really key. We’ve heard that Corktown, Midtown, and Downtown are all pretty safe, and sometimes the same for Hamtramck, Woodbridge, and New Center. Would you move your young family there?

Why are some of the houses [[like in Hamtramck for instance) so darn cheap? Is it just a supply/demand thing or are the $30,000 houses only in neighborhoods you really can’t drive through without asking to be target practice?

And are the burbs that much better? We’ve also been looking at Plymouth, Royal Oak, Ferndale, and maybe as far as Ann Arbor for a nice town-center kind of suburb where you can walk to some things.

We’d really appreciate any guidance, especially from anyone who’s also familiar with Philadelphia or Oakland [[California) and can give us neighborhood-to-neighborhood comparisons.

Looking forward to joining you all in Detroit!

JC

[Eber Brock Ward]

JC, check out Woodbridge, especially since you have formed babby.

There is an active moms' club in the neighborhood, and what's great is they're not Stepford Moms but cool, interesting people. If you plan on living here for at least a few years, there will be other kids in the neighborhood to play with, and Midtown and Corktown and all of the cafes, bars, restaurants and all of that stuff are a quick bike ride away, for when you want to do more adult things.

When my wife and I moved out here from another major city, we felt that we were compromising on "fun" and "city" a bit moving into a neighborhood with single-family homes, but we've found that most everything is an easy bike ride or <$8 cab ride away, and also believe that it'll be a *far* better fit in a few years with babby in our future.

Good luck!

[Bham1982]

No offense, but how could someone [[with children, no less) move to a city sight-unseen?

And I don't understand the more specific questions. I mean, Hamtramck or Plymouth? For real? They're completely opposite communities. Why not compare Manhattan to Nome, Alaska? Plymouth is ultra-sprawly exurban stuff; Hamtramck is a decayed [[though not really ghetto or dangerous) immigrant entry point.

Maybe make a list of priorities. If you value diversity, what does this mean? Same goes with urbanity. What does it mean to you? You have a one-year old. I assume you prefer parks/open space, schooling options, and other nearby parents.

I can't imagine the Detroit city proper is a super popular place for young families with children and options in life [[parks? schools?) but there are probably people in your situation living there who are doing fine.

[illwill]

Bham1982,

I completely agree with you 100%. I'm kind of puzzled by reading post about people moving ANYWHERE sight-unseen. Even if it's the next town over. And they're willing to take advice from people they've never met.

My advice is do yourself a favor and take a short trip and see the area first hand before you move to a place. That's common sense.

I don't get it...

[jmc247]

Thanks for your candor. We know what we value, but we don’t know Detroit.

We’re not intending to move sight unseen; we’ve coming to visit and want to know what you who know the city better than we feel about it. We’re moving for a job, not just for the heck of it, and are concerned about the exact things you are talking about.

I threw the suburbs in for those who felt that there is no place in the city they would want to live [[including you, maybe?), for their opinion. One can compare anything to anything, as you [[quite helpfully!) just did in comparing Plymouth and Hamtramck. It’s great to know how different you feel these places are.

Also, if we live in Detroit Public Schools area, we’d be planning on private school.

Again, thanks!

[jmc247]

illWill, See the response to Bham. You're right, it is common sense, and of course we're visiting. That doesn't stop us from asking for peoples' thoughts about where we should look when we do. It also makes sense not to judge an area only by a few hours visit, and to seek out the advice of those more familiar with it. Thanks for your thoughts!

[Danny]

How can Woodbrigde be safe! No ghettohood in Detroit is safe.

[Gistok]

If you like Ferndale and Royal Oak [[both of which need a car)... you might want to include St. Clair Shores into your list... nice housing stock [[especially nearer Lake St. Clair)... a cheaper price than Royal Oak, and you get the bonus of waterfront parks and 2 freeways nearby.

[Zacha341]

Yes, to some extent I agree Danny. One block south of 12 street and you're toast for stepping out of Woodbridge; a few blocks north along Trumbull and you have that 'hell' known as Ferry Pk Street/ Linwood etc. And Grand River and say Warren, let's not even go there... horrid.

I grew up all of these areas, went to Murray-Wright HS, live on Commonwealth before I left there area, so this is not stuff I am googling...

I can only present areas that are 'safer' in the city appose to areas that are just 'done'. No area is really safe.... nope. Woodbridge and Midtown does have WSU policing and that is a big plus but there have still be some problems.

How can Woodbrigde be safe! No ghettohood in Detroit is safe.

[rutlev]

Here in Corktown, we have several new families, lots of small tykes and expectant mothers. We have a couple of nice parks, Murphy Playlot across from Mudgies [[that Greg adopted and keeps up). There's Holy Trinity elementary school. Some families do drive their children to Waldorf and/or Friends. I'm thinking in the next 4-5 years the public school system will have improved and families can once again consider public education. It's coming.
There will be a demand for quality education that will have to be met and the teachers that live in the neighborhood here are a promise of good things to come.

[Johnnny5]

Where is the job you are relocating to? In Detroit proper or the suburbs?

[jmc247]

Where is the job you are relocating to? In Detroit proper or the suburbs?

Hi Johnnny5--it's in the Dearborn area, but what I saw of Dearborn was not very appealing when I interviewed: lots of big roads and nothing much you could walk or bike to; lots of chain restaurants and car dealerships and not a lot of cafes or independent places. So we might live in there for a while if we don't fall in love with something else, but were looking elsewhere to start. This does mean that some places we've heard are nice, like Ann Arbor, Grosse Point, and Birmingham, would make for a pretty long commute.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

What type of housing stock appeals to you? Based on your Oaktown neighborhoods, I'd guess you are might be in a 2/1 bungalow perhaps?

[gnome]

Of all the choices, I chose Plymouth. It has a cute little downtown, a lovely stock of older homes, an involved community and a low crime rate.

too bad it is a long way away. If you have a job downtown, the commute could take an hour depending on conditions, but you would know your lawn mower was still in your unlocked garage when you got home.

[Gistok]

Hi Johnnny5--it's in the Dearborn area, but what I saw of Dearborn was not very appealing when I interviewed: lots of big roads and nothing much you could walk or bike to; lots of chain restaurants and car dealerships and not a lot of cafes or independent places. So we might live in there for a while if we don't fall in love with something else, but were looking elsewhere to start. This does mean that some places we've heard are nice, like Ann Arbor, Grosse Point, and Birmingham, would make for a pretty long commute.

Interstingly enough Grosse Pointe isn't all that far away... but it is some distance from a freeway. I live in St.Clair Shores, just north of GP, and even though it's farther... the commute is about the same, since the freeway is nearby. I used to work in Ann Arbor, and Dearborn was always the halfway point of my 1 hour commute.

But you will have a problem in finding a "walkable" area... most that do have one... you pay much more for housing for that convenience.

[jackie5275]

Hi Johnnny5--it's in the Dearborn area, but what I saw of Dearborn was not very appealing when I interviewed: lots of big roads and nothing much you could walk or bike to; lots of chain restaurants and car dealerships and not a lot of cafes or independent places. So we might live in there for a while if we don't fall in love with something else, but were looking elsewhere to start. This does mean that some places we've heard are nice, like Ann Arbor, Grosse Point, and Birmingham, would make for a pretty long commute.

It sounds like you drove on either Michigan Ave or Ford Rd in Dearborn. Give Dearborn a second look, go off those beaten paths into the neighborhoods. There are many nice neighborhoods there. Lots of parks, schools are okay, and great city services. If it truly doesn't appeal to you, you might consider Allen Park which is slightly south of Dearborn that has some of what you've said you desire.

[RickBeall]

Any of the areas you mention would be fine.

[jackie5275]

Why are some of the houses [[like in Hamtramck for instance) so darn cheap? Is it just a supply/demand thing or are the $30,000 houses only in neighborhoods you really can’t drive through without asking to be target practice?

Many of the houses in Hamtramck are really old, like 80-100 yrs old. Hamtramck neighborhoods are crowded with houses practically right next to and on top of each other. There may be about 10-15 ft between them. There are no front yards & small backyards, very small lots. Most everyone parks their cars on the street as few folks have a garage. Many folks in this area don't like that. They prefer to have a house that's newer and a lot that's bigger which is a partial explanation for the lower priced housese there.

[Honky Tonk]

One block south of 12 street and you're toast for Woodbridge, a few blocks north along Trumbull...

Both 12th Street and Trumbull run North and South.

[jmc247]

Hi DetroiterOnTheWestCoast,

We like the idea of an older neighborhood with houses from the 1930s or before, preferably detached. Yeah, the Oakland Temescal Craftsman bungalows would be great, and hopefully at less than the $500,000 that they all cost here!

What type of housing stock appeals to you? Based on your Oaktown neighborhoods, I'd guess you are might be in a 2/1 bungalow perhaps?

[Hermod]

No offense, but how could someone [[with children, no less) move to a city sight-unseen?

Try being in the Army. Pack everything in the car. Drive to new city/station. Throw the wife and kids into an efficiency motel room. Go report for duty. Wangle a day off to go looking for an apartment/house to rent. See post transportation as to when you can get your household goods delivered/dumped.

[Honky Tonk]

We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files
We'd like to help you learn to help yourself
Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes
Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Hi DetroiterOnTheWestCoast,

We like the idea of an older neighborhood with houses from the 1930s or before, preferably detached. Yeah, the Oakland Temescal Craftsman bungalows would be great, and hopefully at less than the $500,000 that they all cost here!

Last year I moved from the Oakland hills back into SF, into Diamond Heights. Back in Detroit you can get a whole block for the price of a house here.

[poobert]

Here in Corktown, we have several new families, lots of small tykes and expectant mothers. We have a couple of nice parks, Murphy Playlot across from Mudgies [[that Greg adopted and keeps up). There's Holy Trinity elementary school. Some families do drive their children to Waldorf and/or Friends. I'm thinking in the next 4-5 years the public school system will have improved and families can once again consider public education. It's coming.
There will be a demand for quality education that will have to be met and the teachers that live in the neighborhood here are a promise of good things to come.

I'd second Corktown. When I lived there, it had always had young families and kids. Since then, the neighborhood has gotten better, even.

You value urban life and have experience with it. It's not rocket science, though people here are acting all coy and baffled. People here are going to try to drag you through the mud, kicking and screaming, to Bloomfarmingham Hillsdale Oak. Understand that while Detroit is indeed very dangerous and sucky in many ways, this is an extremely suburban-centric region. To many people, going to - let alone living in - the city is unheard of. If you like urban living, I can tell you you will likely be unhappy in the suburbs. Makes sense, right? I can't really understand why someone who says they like urban living and lived in Oakland and Philly would get responses like "St. Clair Shores" [[a perfectly nice but also perfectly non-descript post-war 1960's - 1970's suburb), but, that's Metro Detroit.


Also, there are many other nice neighborhoods in the city [[I live in one) but they have a very suburban [[though pre-WWII) feel, which is probably not what you're looking for.

[TexasT]

Also, there are many other nice neighborhoods in the city [[I live in one) but they have a very suburban [[though pre-WWII) feel, which is probably not what you're looking for.

Yeah, Palmer Woods and perhaps Indian Village and Grandmont-Rosedale probably fall into those that category, although those three are really nice neighborhoods.

Midtown and Downtown are almost all lofts/condos/apartments, so while the most fun and very safe, you're not going to find single-family homes.

Sounds like Woodbridge or Corktown are his best bets. Neighborhoods of homes built in the early 1900s, family friendly, relatively safe, biking/walking distance to bars/restaurants/entertainment [[I bike/walk from Woodbridge to Midtown when it's warm enough but Corktown is better for entertainment as it has the whole Michigan strip within close walking distance). Both have easy freeway access making his commute to Dearborn a breeze. FWIW, OP, Woodbridge is running $80K to $120K right now. I don't know Corktown as well, but we got outbid on a house there last summer with an offer of $130K.

I'd move to Corktown just to be within walking distance of Le Petit Zinc.