Freeway Embankment Erosion...

**Gistok** · April-11-13, 07:05 PM

How many of you have seen how crappy many of our freeway embankments look? The grass looks like it came loose, and is eroding downhill... makes for a damn sloppy look throughout the metro area... but especially those locations [[such as Detroit) where most freeways are sunken.

Usually the culprit is those freeway grass mowers that go up along the embankement after a heavy rain... and the weight of the mower pulls the grass out by the roots... thus leaving a look of "erosion" behind. It's ugly... and yet we still do it year after year.

I just came across these machines used by German roadway workers. If Americans can put a man on the moon, why can't we properly maintain our freeways and roadways??

http://www.youtube.com/embed/L3j6HaAieEU?rel=0

**old guy** · April-11-13, 09:19 PM

I've got some friends that are going to love seeing that one. That's one hell of a piece of machinery. You'd be everyone's buddy. We have road crews here that could really use something like this.

**Johnnny5** · April-11-13, 09:47 PM

Oakland County already has similar mowers for cutting the sides of rural roads. They're not quite as complex, but I guess the Germans are still the masters of over engineering. It also appears to be doing some serious damage as it's actually rocking the wooden posts as it goes around them.

**old guy** · April-11-13, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Oakland County already has similar mowers for cutting the sides of rural roads. They're not quite as complex, but I guess the Germans are still the masters of over engineering. It also appears to be doing some serious damage as it's actually rocking the wooden posts as it goes around them.

I don't think they're wood. My guess would be they're on some sort of tension system.
It would be great though. People on a city or county crew ask in the morning, what do you want us to do today. Everything. Shouldn't be a problem. See you at lunch.

**Detroitnerd** · April-12-13, 01:14 PM

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but ... aren't the freeways ALWAYS ugly this time of year? I think it has less to do with erosion or machinery so much as the natural cycle: lots of ground in the region looks brown and muddy this time of year. Mother Nature is not an endless flower show. If you could see the first few inches of soil, there's hellzapoppin' down there. Just wait a month. April showers bring May flowers.

Or perhaps we can have MDOT look into some $2.8 billion system to ensure the freeways have lovely greenscaping even in April, even though, technically, your eyes should be on the road ...

**Gistok** · April-12-13, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but ... aren't the freeways ALWAYS ugly this time of year? I think it has less to do with erosion or machinery so much as the natural cycle: lots of ground in the region looks brown and muddy this time of year. Mother Nature is not an endless flower show. If you could see the first few inches of soil, there's hellzapoppin' down there. Just wait a month. April showers bring May flowers.

Or perhaps we can have MDOT look into some $2.8 billion system to ensure the freeways have lovely greenscaping even in April, even though, technically, your eyes should be on the road ...

If you haven't noticed it the last few years... I don't know how explaining it will help... But I'll try... if you drive down I-94 after this weeks rains.. you will see large patches of GREEN along the embankments, and then there are those eroded brown areas. Those are the ones I'm speaking of... not to be confused with the high priced [[and slow paced) moving of street lighting from the center median to the side embankment.

MDOT spends millions on shrubbery [[not billions)... and yet they can't even get the simple act of maintaining a LAWN right...

There's many thousands of feet of this "erosion" along the freeways... I'm sort of surprised you haven't noticed it...

**gazhekwe** · April-12-13, 02:47 PM

Everything is ugly right now, true enough. Winter debris is no longer hidden, spring plants are not yet covering the depredations of winter. Time to break out the trash grabbers and get to work!

April is the cruellest month, Breeding lilacs out of the dead land -- The Waste Land, TS Eliot

**Gistok** · April-12-13, 02:57 PM

Here's an example of this along I-94 near the Lodge Interchange... on the left side of the picture. This is how it looks for thousands of feet along just I-94...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon...n/photostream/

**Detroitnerd** · April-12-13, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Here's an example of this along I-94 near the Lodge Interchange... on the left side of the picture. This is how it looks for thousands of feet along just I-94...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon...n/photostream/

Honestly, I really don't have any complaint about how that looks. I don't understand why it bothers you, why it would be a priority, or even why anybody cares what the embankment of a freeway looks like when they should be eyes front. I mean, it's not a freakin' parkway.

**Gistok** · April-12-13, 03:37 PM

Geeze are you kidding me?? It looks like ghetto??

And with thousands of feet of the freeway looking like that?? The state and donors spent millions on lanscaping the freeways from the airport so it would look better... only to get to the sunken part in the city... and it looks like that...

I know the city doesn't fine you, but in the suburbs you would get ticketed for that kind of lawn.

Also, I would imagine that loose dirt could clog up storm drains... I've been in a freeway accident due to a plugged up storm drain... after a rain... no fun...

**Detroitnerd** · April-12-13, 03:47 PM

I think freeways are ugly things, and efforts to make them pretty are silly, especially given how expensive they are to build and maintain.

Out Hamtramck way, they've put in some pretty fancy plants to deal with erosion, but I think it's really just eye-candy.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=I-75&...,45.59,,0,3.97

I wish we would just get our priorities straight and get mass transit going instead of trying to make driving more attractive. I think that's at the bottom of my shrugging over shoulders.

**Gistok** · April-12-13, 04:07 PM

I understand... so it's not a matter of aesthetics... but priorities... Gotcha...

**gnome** · April-12-13, 04:09 PM

Gistok, you concerned about this based on a manscaping project gone wrong?

**Johnnny5** · April-12-13, 04:33 PM

This thread got me thinking about the work they recently did on 696 [[Roughly between Groesbeck and Gratiot). They added a lane in places and to do so tore out part of the embankment, made the remaining part much steeper and used mulch and LOTS of small shrubs and spreading groundcover to hold the erosion at bay. It looked great when they finished, but it appears that some areas are not holding up and it's one heck of a trash magnet. I don't know how exactly they are going to go about keeping the trash as reasonable levels once everything grows in.

**Gistok** · April-12-13, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Gistok, you concerned about this based on a manscaping project gone wrong?

When they kept widening the shoulder on the side of the road, the embankment kept getting steeper. I'm assuming that the mowers [[after heavy rains) is what caused the erosion... or it happened naturally after heavy rains... don't know? But if it was the machinery... they need to do something... it's getting worse as more stretches of I-94 in particular get this effect...

**Detroitnerd** · April-12-13, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I understand... so it's not a matter of aesthetics... but priorities... Gotcha...

Well, not to nitpick, but it is an aesthetic point too. I really don't think the embankments can always be green. And I don't mind if they aren't. I'm not on the freeway for the scenery, you know ...

But apropos your point: Does anybody know anything about the landscaping/erosion control planting they put in on I-75 in Hamtramck? How does one go about lobbying for that?

**Blueidone** · April-12-13, 05:04 PM

Farmington Hills has a machine like that, Gistok. They mow the ditches on my street with it every few weeks.

BTW...looking forward to the picnic this year! Kathleen...are you listening? :-)

**pgn421** · April-12-13, 06:39 PM

Or has anyone noticed on 94, between Moross and 75, on the embankment, there looks like spots that are wet. In the summer, when it doesnt rain, for days or weeks, i have noticed wet spots. Like there might be water pipes seeping water out of them.

**Gistok** · April-12-13, 06:43 PM

pgn421... I do remember that... but never thought it could be related... very interesting. So if it is wet in some spots in an otherwise dry embankment... then that too could provide the cause for the erosion. Interesting...

Water does find the path of least resistence... downhill...

**Jimaz** · April-12-13, 07:00 PM

Any way you look at it, you can't just let erosion go forever.

Just don't pave the embankments with concrete. That looks like crap.

**pgn421** · April-12-13, 08:00 PM

Gistok, i got off of the erosion subject. But, look, next time, if and when the weather gets warmer and drier! There are spots that are either damp or wet.

**wolverine** · April-13-13, 01:21 AM

Though technically not native to the Detroit area, prairie grasses can grow. Alot of cities are using that planted as a substitute for manicured grass. You never need to mow or irrigate it. While it's tall, it has an even monolithic cover. There was a golf course near where I grew up that used it extensively in the roughs and it looked beautiful during sunrises and sunsets.

I don't know what type of manicured grass they use on the embankments, but I agree it doesn't look all that attractive in winter or during August. It just seems in these times of cutting costs, they would replace it with something that requires no maintenance and no equipment.

Kind of interesting how landscape tastes change. I'm working on a large factory and office complex and they want lots of tall natural grasses surrounding the building, not because of maintenance but because they like the natural look of undisturbed land as viewed from the building.

**Scottathew** · April-13-13, 09:58 AM

On I-696 through Warren M-DOT has made changes so that the slope is not as severe and also got rid of grass in favor of a variety of plants.

The result it that it looks great, very visually appealing, and there is less maintenance.

I'd like to see this done in other places too. It really helps brighten things up and save money.

**Gistok** · April-13-13, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

I don't know what type of manicured grass they use on the embankments, but I agree it doesn't look all that attractive in winter or during August. It just seems in these times of cutting costs, they would replace it with something that requires no maintenance and no equipment.

Unfortunately I do believe they use some kind of hearty grass... nothing exotic [[at least not on I-94). However with reduced cuttings... the grass can sometimes grow up to 10 inches long... and then when they do cut it... they mulch it. But long grass cut looks like hay that has been cut... not only is it unsightly to look at along the roadside... but also the upper hay-like layer leaves the grass underneath to bake in the summer sun... and then that dies off in favor of heartier crabgrass...

**wolverine** · April-13-13, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Unfortunately I do believe they use some kind of hearty grass... nothing exotic [[at least not on I-94). However with reduced cuttings... the grass can sometimes grow up to 10 inches long... and then when they do cut it... they mulch it. But long grass cut looks like hay that has been cut... not only is it unsightly to look at along the roadside... but also the upper hay-like layer leaves the grass underneath to bake in the summer sun... and then that dies off in favor of heartier crabgrass...

I'm pretty sure they don't use prairie grass. It shouldn't be the color green, more of a gold, and you aren't supposed to cut it.