Class-Divided Cities: Detroit Edition

[MikeM]

From The Atlantic's online Cities section:

Class-Divided Cities: Detroit Edition

This is the 12th and final post in a series exploring the class divides across America's largest cities and metros. Using detailed data from the American Community Survey, it examines the residential locations of today's three major classes: the shrinking middle of blue-collar workers; the rising ranks of the knowledge, professional, and creative class; and the even larger and faster-growing ranks of lower-paid service workers.

N.B., this is a Richard Florida article.

[TexasT]

Really interesting article as a whole - definitely worth the long read. The author has been influential on Austin's city planning policies, or at least he's quoted in a lot of the policy reports there.

One of the things that nearly killed downtown Detroit was the misguided notion that its function as a location for offices and headquarters could be transplanted to its suburbs. The region can no longer afford the outmoded and incorrect notion that it can build an alternative "downtown." As I pointed out in a recent talk to the Detroit Regional Chamber's Policy Conference, "Anyone who believes you can build an alternative core out there in the suburbs need a head examination."

On top of that, the greater Detroit region broadly remains economic powerhouse. Even with its diminished population in the city, the metro area's population puts in the same league as San Francisco and Boston. With $200 billion in economic output, its economy is the same size as Ireland's, Hong Kong's, or Singapore's. It is connected to the world through its airport. On top of this, the region is home to an incredible cluster of universities and knowledge based institutions, the University of Michigan in nearby Ann Arbor, long a center for top researchers and now an emerging nexus for tech start-ups, Michigan State in East Lansing, and Wayne State in Detroit. The region's talent base is especially deep in engineering, design, and industrial know-how. Before all those assets can be fully-leveraged, suburban interests must come to the table, and transit must be extended outside the core to the suburbs and ultimately all the way out to Ann Arbor.

[DetroitPlanner]

"Detroit's creative class is located along the lakeshore in the city, as the map above indicates, in a narrow strip that runs north along Jefferson Avenue from downtown through historic Indian Village"

Umm thats not lakeshore.

[Bham1982]

I have yet to read anything worthwhile from the good Prof. Florida.

Why is he famous again? There's no way he's a serious academic with this nonsense.

[Honky Tonk]

"Detroit's creative class is located along the lakeshore in the city, as the map above indicates, in a narrow strip that runs north along Jefferson Avenue from downtown through historic Indian Village"

Umm thats not lakeshore.

Unless they're talking about the UAW, the hospital, or the party store, I'm not sure where this "creative class" is.

[TexasT]

Unless they're talking about the UAW, the hospital, or the party store, I'm not sure where this "creative class" is.

The riverfront condos and Indian Village is what he's talking about, I'm assuming. I know other young professionals that live in those condos over there by Atwater, for example.

[nain rouge]

The region can no longer afford the outmoded and incorrect notion that it can build an alternative "downtown." As I pointed out in a recent talk to the Detroit Regional Chamber's Policy Conference, "Anyone who believes you can build an alternative core out there in the suburbs need a head examination."

It worked quite well for Southfield and Troy. It was just bad for Detroit.

[Eber Brock Ward]

It worked quite well for Southfield and Troy. It was just bad for Detroit.

Yes, but our region failed. And it's beginning to fail for at least Southfield, as well. Lots of "For Lease" signs up and down the Lodge north of 8 mile.

[TexasT]

It worked quite well for Southfield and Troy. It was just bad for Detroit.

True, certain suburbs have definitely gained from the situation. But as a whole, the metro area and the state have suffered along with downtown Detroit. Metro Detroit is being surpassed by other metro areas in terms of population. Aside from a measly gain of a few thousand this past year, Michigan has been the only state to lose population over the past decade, even losing a congressional seat [[no other Rust Belt state lost population). Other metro areas and states facing the same problems Metro Detroit and Michigan are haven't fared nearly as poorly.

It wasn't just bad for Detroit. You need your state's biggest city to be strong.

[EastsideAl]

"Detroit's creative class is located along the lakeshore in the city, as the map above indicates, in a narrow strip that runs north along Jefferson Avenue from downtown through historic Indian Village"

Umm thats not lakeshore.

Since the Detroit River is not technically a 'river' [[it's actually a strait), I find that people who aren't from around here don't really get our distinction between "riverfront" [[urban, formerly mostly industrial, now changing a bit) and "lakeshore" [[suburban, and fancy as hell).

Even then, contending that Detroit's creative class is concentrated on the eastside shore is a misreading. As a longtime resident of the area I can say that, although there are definitely some creative class people down here, they are not the core of the population and this is not a center of "creative class" activity. It is centered in Midtown, of course, and in areas like Corktown and Woodbridge.

[TexasT]

Since the Detroit River is not technically a 'river' [[it's actually a strait), I find that people who aren't from around here don't really get our distinction between "riverfront" [[urban, formerly mostly industrial, now changing a bit) and "lakeshore" [[suburban, and fancy as hell).

He started out talking about the lakeshore up in St Clair and the GPs and I think he inadvertently used it again. He later refers to the "riverfront" when discussing the city.

Even then, contending that Detroit's creative class is concentrated on the eastside shore is a misreading. As a longtime resident of the area I can say that, although there are definitely some creative class people down here, they are not the core of the population and this is not a center of "creative class" activity. It is centered in Midtown, of course, and in areas like Corktown and Woodbridge.

Y'all realize how broadly he defined "creative class" right - he's not talking artsy creative: The creative class includes the high-skill, high-human capital people who work in science and technology, business and management, arts, culture, media, and entertainment, law, and the healthcare professions.

If that doesn't make up Indian Village, for example, what does?

[Wesley Mouch]

As I pointed out in a recent talk to the Detroit Regional Chamber's Policy Conference, "Anyone who believes you can build an alternative core out there in the suburbs need a head examination."

Anyone who uses meanliness, ambiguous expressions like 'alternative core' needs to explain what they mean.

If he means that Southfield or Troy or Livonia were trying to become the 'core' of Detroit -- then he's right.

But that does not mean that 'other concentrated business districts' can be built has their eyes closed.

Some good reading, but much of the article is academia-speak. "high-human capital people" for example. Sounds great, unless you're a low-human capital person.

[Honky Tonk]

Since the Detroit River is not technically a 'river' [[it's actually a strait), I find that people who aren't from around here don't really get our distinction between "riverfront" [[urban, formerly mostly industrial, now changing a bit) and "lakeshore" [[suburban, and fancy as hell).

Even then, contending that Detroit's creative class is concentrated on the eastside shore is a misreading. As a longtime resident of the area I can say that, although there are definitely some creative class people down here, they are not the core of the population and this is not a center of "creative class" activity. It is centered in Midtown, of course, and in areas like Corktown and Woodbridge.

I don't know about that. I've been approached by some very creative people asking me for money.

[Det_ard]

True, certain suburbs have definitely gained from the situation. But as a whole, the metro area and the state have suffered along with downtown Detroit. Metro Detroit is being surpassed by other metro areas in terms of population. Aside from a measly gain of a few thousand this past year, Michigan has been the only state to lose population over the past decade, even losing a congressional seat [[no other Rust Belt state lost population). Other metro areas and states facing the same problems Metro Detroit and Michigan are haven't fared nearly as poorly.

It wasn't just bad for Detroit. You need your state's biggest city to be strong.

The population loss is mainly due to the troubles in our state and city's biggest industry. Job losses lead to population losses. There were 900,000 jobs in Michigan's manufacturing sector in 2000. That was down to 600,000 by the start of the recent recession, and it dropped to 450,000 jobs by the "end" of the recent recession in 2009. That is the main driver of population loss in Michigan. People moved to where they could get jobs.




No other state or region suffered such job losses. The city/suburbs dynamic is secondary to our huge economic losses.

[401don]

His idea that there was some masterplan to create an alternative downtown in the burbs is nonsense. Companies and their employees followed each other out for the same reasons - it was cheap, safe and convenient in the land of the automobile. There was very little desire for any type of urban living at the time.

[TexasT]

The population loss is mainly due to the troubles in our state and city's biggest industry. Job losses lead to population losses. There were 900,000 jobs in Michigan's manufacturing sector in 2000. That was down to 600,000 by the start of the recent recession, and it dropped to 450,000 jobs by the "end" of the recent recession in 2009. That is the main driver of population loss in Michigan. People moved to where they could get jobs.

No other state or region suffered such job losses. The city/suburbs dynamic is secondary to our huge economic losses.

But why weren't other industries making inroads into Michigan? The tech, entrepreneur, medical industries you see now? Why wasn't Detroit a place that other industries wanted to be in? Attracting new businesses and diversification alleviated the problems for other areas. It's all connected.

Houston had the same issue with being a one-trick pony - energy/oil. It's has long been attempting to diversify and with a stronger core, it can attract those alternative industries. Seems like Detroit is finally trying to do that as well.

[TexasT]

His idea that there was some masterplan to create an alternative downtown in the burbs is nonsense. Companies and their employees followed each other out for the same reasons - it was cheap, safe and convenient in the land of the automobile. There was very little desire for any type of urban living at the time.

I'm not sure it was a conscious attempt to displace the core, but the metro area surely didn't attempt to strengthen it either [[compared to the attempts to regionalize that you see now, like the RTA). And Detroit isn't necessarily all "urban" living - it's not all lofts and condos. Lots of neighborhoods and single family homes here too.

[iheartthed]

It worked quite well for Southfield and Troy. It was just bad for Detroit.

Have you seen the commercial vacancy rates in Southfield and Troy lately?

[DetroitPlanner]

I have yet to read anything worthwhile from the good Prof. Florida.

Why is he famous again? There's no way he's a serious academic with this nonsense.

He is famous for being a one trick pony who can somehow get a lot of people kissing his @$$.

Corktown does not even show up on his map. I bet he must be fighting with the Cooleys!

[Wesley Mouch]

His idea that there was some masterplan to create an alternative downtown in the burbs is nonsense. Companies and their employees followed each other out for the same reasons - it was cheap, safe and convenient in the land of the automobile. There was very little desire for any type of urban living at the time.

Best summation yet.

There were more reasons. Growth of red tape in the City, progressive taxation, relocating closer to their employees homes as the employees sprawled to get bigger house farther away from racial strife, desegregated schools and forced bussing within district lines, and a dash of good ol' racism.

Today, the employees companies want to hire seek urban environments. Then, the suburbs were cool. Take S.S.Kresge [[aka KMart). Among the first to move, they built in Troy because it was the hip thing to do. Companies didn't want office buildings, they wanted Campuses. Sprawling buildings with few elevators. New designs. Hip architecture. That rusting building was considered progressive. I'm sure Kresge thought it would help recruiting. There was a draw out -- not an escape from Detroit.

In Education, the same thing was happening. UofM built North Campus. Why? Because sprawl was cool. I can almost see the glossy brochures showing happy students walking under trees next to a new concrete road towards a building with no ugly retail storefronts in an environment where the school had complete control. Cities were ugly and messy. There was a draw to Jersey before 911 -- and before crime was tamed by S&F and other measures hated by the ACLU.

[TexasT]

Then, the suburbs were cool. Take S.S.Kresge [[aka KMart). Among the first to move, they built in Troy because it was the hip thing to do. Companies didn't want office buildings, they wanted Campuses. Sprawling buildings with few elevators. New designs. Hip architecture. That rusting building was considered progressive. I'm sure Kresge thought it would help recruiting. There was a draw out -- not an escape from Detroit.

In Education, the same thing was happening. UofM built North Campus. Why? Because sprawl was cool. I can almost see the glossy brochures showing happy students walking under trees next to a new concrete road towards a building with no ugly retail storefronts in an environment where the school had complete control. Cities were ugly and messy. There was a draw to Jersey before 911 -- and before crime was tamed by S&F and other measures hated by the ACLU.

Yet it was seen only to this degree in Detroit...in Houston, for example [[the city I'm most familiar with, forgive me), you had residential flight to the burbs, but downtown did not empty out the way it did in Detroit. Other major cities also maintained their downtown cores, although obviously suburbs grew to some extent. If mass exodus by corporations to the suburbs was common and cool, why didn't other downtowns die to the extent Detroit did?

[iheartthed]

Yet it was seen only to this degree in Detroit...in Houston, for example [[the city I'm most familiar with, forgive me), you had residential flight to the burbs, but downtown did not empty out the way it did in Detroit. Other major cities also maintained their downtown cores, although obviously suburbs grew to some extent. If mass exodus by corporations to the suburbs was common and cool, why didn't other downtowns die to the extent Detroit did?

Houston's a little different because it's pretty much grown in population for its entire existence. However, I do think its fair to ask what's the difference between Detroit and other slow growth metropolitan areas like Boston, Chicago and New York.

[Wesley Mouch]

Yet it was seen only to this degree in Detroit...in Houston, for example [[the city I'm most familiar with, forgive me), you had residential flight to the burbs, but downtown did not empty out the way it did in Detroit. Other major cities also maintained their downtown cores, although obviously suburbs grew to some extent. If mass exodus by corporations to the suburbs was common and cool, why didn't other downtowns die to the extent Detroit did?

'Only to this degree in Detroit'. I think it was just a matter of degree.

I think you'll find that most if not all major cities have been the relocation of many of their corporate offices to the burbs.

In the late 1990s, when Don Chen, Matt Raimi, and I were researching our book, Once There Were Greenfields, we lamented the flight of business from America’s central cities to increasingly outer suburbs and farmland. In that book we frequently turned for data to metropolitan Chicago where, for example, Ameritech had built a half-mile-long “landscraper” near O’Hare Airport far from the Loop, Motorola had set up camp in Schaumberg, and Sears had fled the iconic Sears Tower for Hoffman Estates.

[[from Grist: Suburban Corporate Campuses Going Out of Style)

Detroit also had the 'luck' of a few really big companies with early suburban presence. Ford, GM [[New Center & Tech Center). If these firms were downtown, things might have been a little better. But like a lot of things -- it wasn't one single factor. Lot of eggs in one basket [[auto), sparsely populated right after the war, rust belt, and so on.

[Hermod]

There was little in downtown Detroit that was essential to the region. Most of the offices in the large office buildings downtown were readily transportable to other areas of the metro. Gilbert is downtown because Gilbert wants to be downtown. His operation could function just as well in Southfield, Troy, or on Hall Road. Other cities had major financial centers downtown. Detroit had only the headquarters of local banks.

[canuck]

As TexasT excerpted, this is my favorite paragraph, there is hope in this, and also a certain sadness. A Detroit metro mentality is the aim in my opinion.

On top of that, the greater Detroit region broadly remains economic powerhouse. Even with its diminished population in the city, the metro area's population puts in the same league as San Francisco and Boston. With $200 billion in economic output, its economy is the same size as Ireland's, Hong Kong's, or Singapore's. It is connected to the world through its airport. On top of this, the region is home to an incredible cluster of universities and knowledge based institutions, the University of Michigan in nearby Ann Arbor, long a center for top researchers and now an emerging nexus for tech start-ups, Michigan State in East Lansing, and Wayne State in Detroit. The region's talent base is especially deep in engineering, design, and industrial know-how. Before all those assets can be fully-leveraged, suburban interests must come to the table, and transit must be extended outside the core to the suburbs and ultimately all the way out to Ann Arbor.