BuildingsOfDetroit.com

**Richard** · March-30-13, 10:45 PM

I used to enjoy your website for what it had to offer but when one goes from picture taking to removing things you cross that line ,how about doing the right thing and return the items to the rightfull owners .

When you brag about it on the Internet you become no different then the scum pushing trucks off of buildings.

The city of Detroit and local historians want to know why a local photographer stole a several-hundred-pound cornerstone from a 135-year-old church after it was demolished last month.

**Kathleen** · March-31-13, 07:48 AM

Heard about this yesterday....

To clarify BOD:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lost-...24575730898624

**Honky Tonk** · March-31-13, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Kathleen

Heard about this yesterday....

To clarify BOD:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lost-...24575730898624

I'm afraid I need more clarification then that. I can't find anything with your attached link, can't find anything searching the news, can't find anything searching Metro Times "Best Of Detroit". Can someone post a link for those of us internet challenged? Thanx.

**Jimaz** · March-31-13, 08:46 AM

So BoD stands for Buildings of Detroit?

Buildings of Detroit

**rjlj** · March-31-13, 09:04 AM

Here is the story

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2013/0...-time-capsule/

**Richard** · March-31-13, 09:41 AM

Thank you everybody with the help of posting the links,Internet problems and my smartphone is smarter then me when it comes to copying links.

**Honky Tonk** · March-31-13, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by rjlj

Here is the story

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2013/0...-time-capsule/

Thanx rjtj. So it WASN'T in The News?!?! Kudos to MCMR for digging out another good story! What's the difference between this photographer and the guy from OH that looted the Van Dyke Place?

**Johnnny5** · March-31-13, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Thanx rjtj. So it WASN'T in The News?!?! Kudos to MCMR for digging out another good story! What's the difference between this photographer and the guy from OH that looted the Van Dyke Place?

Prior to the "theft" were there any indications that this cornerstone was going to be saved or salvaged?

If they were bulldozing this church and throwing it all into dumpsters I don't see the harm in what the guy did. [[Not much different than someone dumpster diving or picking up a discarded piece of furniture at the curb.) On the other hand, if the stone was purposely left in place to be saved then that's a different issue.

**Honky Tonk** · March-31-13, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Prior to the "theft" were there any indications that this cornerstone was going to be saved or salvaged?

If they were bulldozing this church and throwing it all into dumpsters I don't see the harm in what the guy did. [[Not much different than someone dumpster diving or picking up a discarded piece of furniture at the curb.) On the other hand, if the stone was purposely left in place to be saved then that's a different issue.

A good point.

**EastsideAl** · March-31-13, 10:50 AM

Exactly Johnny5. I'm as hard on scavengers and "explorers" as anybody here, but I'd sure like to know a lot more about what the actual plans were, if any, to salvage this cornerstone before I cast any nasty judgments on someone who clearly does actually care about the city's buildings and history.

So much history is just thrown away or destroyed in this city that it's hard for me to blame the erstwhile photographer for taking the stone before it was tossed into a dumpster like so much of our history has been. If the choice was take it or have it destroyed, then I'm as guilty as of "theft" as he is, because I've certainly liberated certain items from the fate of the landfill [[or the, hah, "antique dealer") that so much of our city has fallen into.

**WaCoTS** · March-31-13, 11:39 AM

maybe i skimmed it too fast, but this almost sounds like a slam piece that was designed to carry out personal beefs between the writer and the "photographer"...not journalism of any sort [[and if i'm not mistaken, he also got the name of the church wrong...im pretty sure it's ST PETRI and not ST PETER).

i mean give me a friggin break--where's the story here? the damn thing was left laying, broken, about to become landfill fodder. i wouldve taken it too. but i wouldntve bragged about it on FB or kept it as a pointless personal souvenir, i would have contacted the Detroit Historical Society to see what could be done with it. Granted the DHS doesnt have enough staff to curate what they currently have, but he could at least see if there is a Lutheran church that still exists [[who mave have merged with St Petri in the past) who may be interested in having it for their own collection.

Many of the remaining old churches in this city [[such as St Anne's, St Peter Episcopal, or Most Holy Trinity, etc) have cultural artifact collections they display, containing pieces of their old blgs or from other churches whose parish they merged with in the past, and whose blgs were subsequently demolished. I can see keeping a piece of ornamental brick or whathaveyou as a personal souvenir, but the CORNERstone? come on. thats a piece of cultural identity. granted, the group in question may no longer exist, but at least put forth an effort to find it a better home than hoarding it in your backyard like my precioussssss where no one else can ever see it.

**Richard** · March-31-13, 11:41 AM

To me the difference here is it was a corner stone with contents that portrayed a time capsule of when it was place,it gives a look into the city's past and is a part of the city's history in general that should be shared and not used for personal gain.

There is a lot of history that is being destroyed which in turn destroys the civic pride of our past and those who came before us and thier contribution .

I find it interesting that the justification of it was going to be scrapped so I took it ,scrappers mentality .

Sometimes you just have to be the better person .

EastsideAl and Johnny I understand both points but this is a bit different case.

**WaCoTS** · March-31-13, 11:52 AM

wow, looks like the Muckraker is getting GRILLED in the comments on this story...apparently him & this BlgsOfDetroit.com guy are buddies and did indeed have a personal beef against Sean Doerr that predated this incident. real professional journalism.

**Cliffy** · March-31-13, 11:58 AM

I don't really see the big deal either if this thing was going in the trash. Obviously nobody cared enough to secure it after it was demolished.

**detroittrader** · March-31-13, 12:03 PM

Sean Doerr wins the first round.

**Lowell** · March-31-13, 12:50 PM

There appears to be a 3-way kerfuffle among Steve Neavling [motorcitymuckraker], Sean Doerr [buildingsofdetroit] with Dan Austin [historicdetroit] on the periphery, all well-known figures in the Detroit 'ruins porn' community.

I notice there is even an anonymous Facebook site mimics the name of and attacks motorcitymuckraker on an almost daily basis. It appears to have been active for quite a while.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Motor...60105504042520

To the broader question I am an advocate of the "Take only pictures, leave only footprints" school. However when a structure is actually being demolished by a legal contractor, the game changes. Then issue is between whoever holds the salvage rights and anyone wants some of it.

Here is what has been lost, pictures from August 2008.The Church and school.

St. Petri Church Interior [with Romain Meffre and Yves Marchand]

The Stage at St. Petri School.

Cornerstone of St. Petri School. I wonder what happened to that?

**dtowncitylover** · March-31-13, 12:59 PM

A bunch of hipsters bickering on whose better, gotta love it.

**subsidized** · March-31-13, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

A bunch of hipsters bickering on whose better, gotta love it.

hahaha, exactly

**subsidized** · March-31-13, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

I notice there is even an anonymous Facebook site mimics the name of and attacks motorcitymuckraker on an almost daily basis. It appears to have been active for quite a while.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Motor...105504042520To

That link seems to be broken.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Motor...60105504042520

**rb336** · March-31-13, 01:29 PM

the lower picture on muckraker's site makes it look like the cornerstone was broken up on site. It was headed for the rubbish heap

**southen** · March-31-13, 01:33 PM

I'm just sad to see dan austin being pulled into this. great guy who had absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

**historicdetroit.org** · March-31-13, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

There appears to be a 3-way kerfuffle among Steve Neavling [motorcitymuckraker], Sean Doerr [buildingsofdetroit] with Dan Austin [historicdetroit] on the periphery, all well-known figures in the Detroit 'ruins porn' community.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there. I've got nothing to do with any of this other than the fact that I used to work with Steve [[the Muckraker guy) at the Free Press and I used to run BuildingsofDetroit.com with Sean [[the cornerstone-taking guy). So yeah, I'm guilty of having worked with these two fellas before, but that is it.

I want nothing to do with ANY of this. I did put up a post after Steve ran the story saying that I had nothing to do with it, but I did so only because I did not want anyone thinking I stole the 'stone; people still confuse me and Sean all the time.

So please don't think I have - or want - anything to do with this whole affair. James Brown don't want no mess - and neither do I.

-d.a. of HistoricDetroit.org

**Lowell** · March-31-13, 03:33 PM

Thanks for clearing that up historicdetroit.org.

**Jimaz** · March-31-13, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

the lower picture on muckraker's site makes it look like the cornerstone was broken up on site. It was headed for the rubbish heap

Also, from that article:

Some historians and local pastors believe the cornerstone at the former St. Peter Lutheran Church on the east side contained a time capsule.... But no one knows for sure.... Like many things in Detroit, ownership of the church has been a mystery.

Emphasis mine.

So what's he supposed to return and to whom? No one knows [[yet).

**Richard** · March-31-13, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Also, from that article:Emphasis mine.

So what's he supposed to return and to whom? No one knows [[yet).

Two paths available one would be, I have saved this information and will make it available to the rightful owners or in the absence of make it available as part of the city's history and a small token of credit would not hurt.

Second path would be, post it on social media while singing happy birthday congratulating ones self on the score.

Which path would you take? Not meaning you personally Jimaz

There is another version of this where documents were saved from destruction from a car manufacture now defunct and some became the curators of those documents but they have shared that information and helped pass that history on. That is the difference.