What Do You Believe?

[MizMotown]

When it comes to spiritual viewpoints, philosophies, or practises or if you honestly have none.

Not necessary to start a religious war or try to change someone else's beliefs just a general curiousity on different views you've either been taught or developed on your own.

[Detroitnerd]

Nothing. No gods, no afterlife, no judgment, no rebirth.

[rb336]

I believe empirical evidence and reason

[Jimaz]

... Not necessary to start a religious war or ....

I don't know but I'd pay cash money to watch J.R. "Bob" Dobbs duke it out with The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Pastafarians demand equal rights, shocking County Commissioners

[Ray1936]

I consider myself an agnostic.

That's defined as one who really doesn't know; accepts no theories but rejects none.

Friend of mine once said "An agnostic is just a chicken-shit athiest."

[canuck]

I believe in the almighty, hiccup, canadian dollar.

Seriously though, like Detroitnerd, I dont believe in mumbo-jumbo of the third kind.

[gazhekwe]

Spirit is everywhere. When anything leaves this world, spirit returns to the spirit world, bag of bones returns to the earth.

[old guy]

I consider myself an agnostic.

That's defined as one who really doesn't know; accepts no theories but rejects none.

Friend of mine once said "An agnostic is just a chicken-shit athiest."

I guess I'd have to go along with Ray on this one, and Gaz. If that's the meaning of agnostic then it makes a lot of sense to me, and could probably be a spoiler for a few wars.
Over the years I've put a lot of thought into it. I find it hard to believe that we just show up here from nothing, and then cease to exist when we pass away, so to speak. But to me, that's only a belief, something I've conjured up in my mind and I don't think that anyone other than me should believe in that theory if they have a different one.
All I am sure of, is that nobody knows for certain what the big picture is. So believe in what you want to believe in, and accept the fact that it's just that, a belief.

[rb336]

I am an atheist. I am also spiritual. Some people think that is not a compatible paring. When I was out, looking at the sky, looking to the west and seeing the setting sun, seeing venus, mars and jupiter strung across the sky, I was filled with awe, and felt an epiphany when I realized that I was part of that. I get that same feeling whenever I am confronted with the universe or the natural beauty of earth. No need for a deity. it just is, and I am part of that. what is that except spiritual?

[coracle]

I think there is existence after life. If you've been "nice" you rise vertically upwards to your designated cloud and on the way you're issued with a harp, a halo and a chick to take care of you. Then you spend eternity lying in your cloud listening to Country Western music with Gospel music for the Weekends. On the other hand if you've been "naughty" you are forced to sit and continuously watch Lion's games and reruns forever to remind you what might have happened if...

[MizMotown]

For me the logical approach is I don't know. As for belief, I lean toward a Creator but in a metaphysical context in regards to thoughts [[information), energy, perception and projection. I think that if one is open to spiritual experience it's highly personal.

Thanks for comments.

[MizMotown]

A quote by Paul Tillich that has been on my mind lately...

...the God above God.

"The courage to be is rooted in the God who appears when God has disappeared in the anxiety of doubt."

[MizMotown]

...felt an epiphany when I realized that I was part of that...

[[Lila) The Divine Play = the mass hypnosis of God by which He makes every human being believe in the same illusionary [[reality) of creation perceived by the senses. [[Maya) Cosmic Illusion... Are we the dream within a dream...

I am an atheist. I am also spiritual. Some people think that is not a compatible paring. When I was out, looking at the sky, looking to the west and seeing the setting sun, seeing venus, mars and jupiter strung across the sky, I was filled with awe, and felt an epiphany when I realized that I was part of that. I get that same feeling whenever I am confronted with the universe or the natural beauty of earth. No need for a deity. it just is, and I am part of that. what is that except spiritual?

[Ray1936]

I think there is existence after life. If you've been "nice" you rise vertically upwards to your designated cloud and on the way you're issued with a harp, a halo and a chick to take care of you. Then you spend eternity lying in your cloud listening to Country Western music with Gospel music for the Weekends. On the other hand if you've been "naughty" you are forced to sit and continuously watch Lion's games and reruns forever to remind you what might have happened if...

Coracle, thanks for the best chuckle I've had all week!!!!

[Lowell]

Like Old guy, I'm somewhere between Ray and Gaz.

However I say I am agnostic, not AN agnostic. There is a difference. I feel the spirit, I just can't define it and don't need to.

For those with a more traditional point of view, one of my favorite Mark Twain quotes come to mind.

"Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company"

[rb336]

I believe in two hells. in hell one, you are on an empty autobahn in a Yugo, in hell two you are in a lambo but stuck in an endless NYC gridlock

[noise]

I believe in absolutely none of this garbage because none of it exists.

[Gannon]

I've had too many tangible experiences to ever deny that there must be something else...some other, or rather Other. When being nudged by some odd internal suggestion to do something I would not ordinarily do...and simply doing that novel act causes results for someone far in excess of even the wildest imagination...I cannot escape knowing that I've participated in something so much larger and more intricate than mere co-incidence or random chance.

That said, I estimate that our reality can be described in the fuzzy function of combining the basic storylines of The Matrix, Monsters Inc., The Adjustment Bureau, and Total Recall [[the original, not the remake). I'm not sure Heinlein's "The Number of the Beast" has been successfully put to film...but there is significant truth in that story as well.

Heinlein's basic premise is: We may be able to imagine into being entire universes, and most surely ours is the product of someone else's imagination. All it takes is a time/space machine to prove it.

After much consideration and study of the latest merely-human misunderstandings of the substance of reality and the mysticism beyond reality...I conclude that there exists an infinite multitude of adjacent multiverses which contain the potential of every act and decision of each and every sentient being, but this continual moment of Now serves to forge the path of the perceivable Universe within which everyone alive today agrees to participate.

Or to badly paraphrase an old philosophical mentor, the Book of Life might be viewable by the Maker as complete, but each page is written as it is turned to be read...by the collective actions of each and every one of us breathing and blinking and hopefully thinking beings. We co-create reality as the potentials of the future become the tangible collective memory of the past.

Somehow we are all a part of the Creator in this creation, and It doesn't seem to mind one whit if we don't recognize It as such. I fully believe that it is simply enough to be the best you can...for yourself, your family, and your community...and to apply your gifts and talents, within the constraints of your abilties, to the overall good of humanity...in only the way the exact combination that is YOU can.

There is so much more to this...I'm not sure I can wrestle language enough to attempt to contain it all. I'll read all that again in the morning after some rest, it was a very busy day. I'm tired.

[MizMotown]

Mr. Toads Wild Ride... lol...

The Grand Illusion [[Styx)

Welcome to the grand illusion
Come on in and see what's happening
Pay the price, get your tickets for the show
The stage is set, the band starts playing
Suddenly your heart is pounding
You're wishing secretly you were a star

But don't be fooled by the radio
The TV or the magazines
They'll show you photographs of how your life should be
But they're just someone else's fantasies
So if you think your life is complete confusion
'Cause you never win the gameJust remember that it's a grand illusion
And deep inside we're all the same
We're all the same

So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because your neighbor's got it made
Just remember that it's a grand illusion
And deep inside we're all the same

America spells competition
Join us in our blind ambition
Get yourself a brand new motorcar
Someday soon we'll stop to ponder
What on earth's this spell we're under
We made the grade and still we wonder
Who the hell we are

I've had too many tangible experiences to ever deny that there must be something else...some other, or rather Other. When being nudged by some odd internal suggestion to do something I would not ordinarily do...and simply doing that novel act causes results for someone far in excess of even the wildest imagination...I cannot escape knowing that I've participated in something so much larger and more intricate than mere co-incidence or random chance.

That said, I estimate that our reality can be described in the fuzzy function of combining the basic storylines of The Matrix, Monsters Inc., The Adjustment Bureau, and Total Recall [[the original, not the remake). I'm not sure Heinlein's "The Number of the Beast" has been successfully put to film...but there is significant truth in that story as well.

Heinlein's basic premise is: We may be able to imagine into being entire universes, and most surely ours is the product of someone else's imagination. All it takes is a time/space machine to prove it.

After much consideration and study of the latest merely-human misunderstandings of the substance of reality and the mysticism beyond reality...I conclude that there exists an infinite multitude of adjacent multiverses which contain the potential of every act and decision of each and every sentient being, but this continual moment of Now serves to forge the path of the perceivable Universe within which everyone alive today agrees to participate.

Or to badly paraphrase an old philosophical mentor, the Book of Life might be viewable by the Maker as complete, but each page is written as it is turned to be read...by the collective actions of each and every one of us breathing and blinking and hopefully thinking beings. We co-create reality as the potentials of the future become the tangible collective memory of the past.

Somehow we are all a part of the Creator in this creation, and It doesn't seem to mind one whit if we don't recognize It as such. I fully believe that it is simply enough to be the best you can...for yourself, your family, and your community...and to apply your gifts and talents, within the constraints of your abilties, to the overall good of humanity...in only the way the exact combination that is YOU can.

There is so much more to this...I'm not sure I can wrestle language enough to attempt to contain it all. I'll read all that again in the morning after some rest, it was a very busy day. I'm tired.

[Gannon]

Mr. Toads Wild Ride... lol...

The Grand Illusion [[Styx)

Too funny. I listened to them during my formative years, and owned that vinyl album...but the lyrics didn't resonate with me until I got older.

I just searched to learn when that Cobo Hall concert was in the late-70s where I nodded off at the stage-right end of row six on the main floor...and became the target for anyone with an empty beer cup. Thankfully they were empty, and their tossers too full for accuracy. We had spent a wee bit too much time on the roof deck partying, and I needed a nap before the show!

One site says they played Cobo Hall twice in 1978, March 31st and November 11th, and then again on 1 November 1979. I believe it was one of the November shows, because I wasn't driving yet. The 1981 show location is not recorded, but I cannot imagine them playing anywhere but Cobo.

[Gannon]

Back to the thread at hand...

I believe that BOTH Destiny and Free Will exist, and while our life path was determined in advance...we always and always have the power and choice to alter or ignore it. I believe one's overall health and mental well-being displays how close they are treading to their predefined lifepath.

If you don't believe this, have a birthchart drawn up using the exact place and time of your birth. I just did mine again at www.0800-horoscope.com and had fun reading about myself.

That is why I liked Philip K. Dick's "The Adjustment Bureau" with Matt Damon and Emily Blunt. Dick's unique technique for 'allowing' those within the Bureau to shortcut through space and time was a fresh way of considering how beings beyond our resonance might step in and out of our present reality, somewhat invisibly.

Their function is to help humans remain on their path of destiny...but even these 'angelic' beings can learn and grow some...while each possessing the full ability to act out of positive whole-serving or negative self-serving desires, intent, and purpose.

Humans usually notice their existence if they recognize the improbabilities of important encounters and experiences. Say, like the time they couldn't find their keys on the way out the door in the morning...running all over the house only to find them exactly where they were supposed to be...then finally getting on the road only to be one of the first witnesses to an accident which might've been THEIRS if they'd not misplaced those keys.

Or that special feeling in the air when one meets a person who later becomes significant in their lives. That feeling of radical discovery when stumbling upon another of life's deep truths. And so on...according to Dick, who had a curious brain condition the last decade of his life which kept him hovering on the fringe of mystical 'hallucination'. I daresay he wasn't imagining what he perceived, nor was it fake or false. He 'got it' pretty well, and did an amazing job writing analogy-exposition in forms which many can understand today. There is no mistaking why Philip K. Dick's stories became some of Hollywood's biggest blockbusters, but the most honest and real one never really got its due...to me, The Adjustment Bureau didn't score large in theaters because it was too good of a truth revelation for Hellywood to allow. Some might wander into the Light, and discover their true powers, and the Overlords of the World cannot afford that.

I'd still like to know what pulled my steering wheel to the left when I fell asleep while driving through central Wisconsin one night...and what kept those rear tires intact in the UP when I almost lost myself. And that seems to be the latest of my threads which has conveniently disappeared. Curious.

Nice way to start the day...

[Zacha341]

I believe [[in part) that:

“The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man.”
-- G. K. Chesterton

----

[MizMotown]

Gannon,

I do believe there is something to the infinite universes [[aka Holographic Universe.) You know I study A Course In Miracles which is indescribable in itself unless you actually read it and do what it says but reading your post brought a section to mind. Basically God is our creator... we are the created... but at the same time we have created our own creatures who know us as our source... which to me would be infinite reflections that will oneday recognize itself as one. Another interesting book is: Thought Power: The Right Methods of Handling and Manipulating Thought for the Best Benefit of Man by Sivananda Saraswati. Can be googled for free.

By the way even though ACIM is written w/ Christian terminology is does not present itself like the Christian bible even though it does make references and corrections to it.

And now we say "Amen." For Christ has come to dwell in the abode You set for Him before time was, in calm eternity.The journey closes, ending at the place where it began. No trace of it remains. Not one illusion is accorded faith, and not one spot of darkness still remains to hide the face of Christ from anyone. Thy Will is done, complete and perfectly, and all creation recognizes You, and knows You as the only Source it has. Clear in Your likeness does the light shine forth from everything that lives and moves in You. For we have reached where all of us are one, and we are home, where You would have us be.

[MizMotown]

I do believe that it's all about thoughts... whether we are thoughts in the mind of God or bit of downloaded information... here's an interesting thought...
Victory Over Intrusive Thoughts
In the beginning of your practice of thought-control you will experience great difficulty.
You will have to wage war with them. They will struggle their level best for their own existence.
They will say, “We have every right to remain in this palace of mind. We have a sole monopoly
from time immemorial to occupy this area. Why should we vacate our dominion now? We will
fight for our birthright till the end.”
They will pounce upon you with great ferocity. When you sit for meditation only, all sorts
of evil thoughts will crop up. As you attempt to suppress them they want to attack you with
redoubled force and vigour. But positive always overcomes the negative.
Just as darkness cannot stand before the sun, just as the leopard cannot stand before the
lion so also all these dark negative thoughts—these invisible intruders, enemies of peace—
cannot stand before the sublime divine thoughts. They must die by themselves.
Drive Away Obnoxious Thoughts
Drive away from your mind all unnecessary, useless and obnoxious thoughts. Useless
thoughts impede your spiritual growth; obnoxious thoughts are stumbling blocks to spiritual
advancement.
You are away from God when you entertain useless thoughts. Substitute thoughts of God.
Entertain only thoughts that are helpful and useful. Useful thoughts are the stepping-stones to
spiritual growth and progress.
Do not allow the mind to run into the old grooves and to have its own ways and habits.
Be on the careful watch.
If a pebble in our boot torments us, we expel it. We take off the boot and shake it out.
Once the matter is fairly understood, it is just as easy to expel an intruding and obnoxious
THOUGHT POWER
35
thought from the mind. About this there ought to be no doubt, no two opinions. The thing is
obvious, clear and unmistakable.
It should be as easy to expel an obnoxious thought from your mind as it is to shake a
stone out of your shoe; and, till a man can do that, it is just nonsense to talk about his ascendancy
and conquest over nature. He is a mere slave and prey to the bat-winged phantoms that flit
through the corridor of his brain.

[Bobl]

Henry Ford summed it up, in four words: "All religion is bunk."