DPS a Gulag?

[SWMAP]

Who knows about the inflexable suspension policy now in force in DPS high schools. Many students marched to protest it:
http://m.detnews.com/metro/article?a...3230382&f=1211

I just can't imagine that teachers and administrators are putting together all the paperwork and counselor and parent meetings that the marchers imply when they say that students are routinely suspended for things like the "wrong color shoes." it would eat up all your time.

As for back-talk- it sounds relatively minor. However, I have friends that have been called whores and worse by students, so some back-talk can be very aggressive.

If I didn't want to be suspended and thus threaten my educational success and future, I guess I would abjure back-talking my teachers and wear the right shoes to school. I'm sure the shoe requirement can't be too onerous even for poor families. In fact, I would guess that the shoe requirement is made with income in mind.

[Richard]

Times have changed , when I went to school teachers received the same respect as LEO and others you never spoke back to your elders it was disrespect .

I agree with the zero tolerance , you are there to learn and not disrupt others from thier chance, teachers have become babysitters or expected to be anyways so if you do not want to learn , get out of the way of those that do.

Charters that I have seen and even public schools where I am at have uniform policies and offer assistance to those who cannot afford the purchase ,seems to be away to curb that distraction .

Maybe if some spent time in the places they refer to they just might realize how easy they do have it.

[Hamtragedy]

Agreed. Don't forget those other good students ,who are the majority, by the way, whose education is hampered by those 1, 2, or 3 students who continue to disrupt the class, and waste everyone's time.

[casscorridor1]

As someone who taught at DPS [[retired) and for the most part enjoyed it, I would not put too much into this.

Teachers don't wake up in the morning "looking for problems and drama." In an effort to create better learning environments standards are implemented. Some students disregard those standards and then want sympathy for the repercussions they brought on themselves. If there is a dress code - there's a dress code, deal with it. The fact that you can't call the teacher a mother f***er or speak out with no repercussions finds no sympathy from me.

As usual, the people who offer the most advice and sympathy for the students are the ones who have never taught and are delusional about the lack of respect SOME students have for any type of rules. I absolutely hated wasting time, stopping class, writing up a student and sending them out of class. Was it necessary for the vast majority that do follow the student code of conduct and want to continue class and learn? ABSOLUTELY!

You can only overlook talking out, cussing, or playing on the cell phone so much. [[BTW: Go ahead, try enforcing the No Visible Cell Phone policy and see what it gets you.) You'll always hear from the parents the one time you DO suspend Johnny for cussing, or taking away his cell phone. Every one seems to forget the other 99 times that you stopped class and handled it in the classroom and never made an issue out of it [[and of course your kid will forget that too while mommy is in the room). Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Knowing the rules and being responsible for your actions is part of the student code of conduct reviewed at the beginning of every school year. The ZERO TOLERANCE policy is never zero. Give teachers an ounce of credit, they overlook many things but sometimes you just have to go to the next level. Like I said, most people that have the most to say about how a classroom or school should run have never taught.

P.S. The comparison to Ann Arbor schools is a joke. Once again, a state rep tries to create a law about something he knows NOTHING about. Stupid, completely stupid!

[DetroitTeacher]

I don't waste my time and energy on paperwork to suspend a kid. I deal with it and move on. Why would I suspend a kid only to have that kid get to sleep in and watch TV all day? I mean, if I have to wake up and haul my butt into school, then that kid should have to be there, too! I also don't want to deal with unruly parents [[I only see them when I do something that offends their child...like not accepting research papers late). I've been called everything but my name, on occasion by parents. No thanks. I don't need the stress and have precious little time for readmit conferences and paperwork when I know that it won't change the student's behavior. They generally don't get in trouble. I'd rather just deal with the kid myself and be done with it.

[Honky Tonk]

I don't waste my time and energy on paperwork to suspend a kid. I deal with it and move on. Why would I suspend a kid only to have that kid get to sleep in and watch TV all day? I mean, if I have to wake up and haul my butt into school, then that kid should have to be there, too! I also don't want to deal with unruly parents [[I only see them when I do something that offends their child...like not accepting research papers late). I've been called everything but my name, on occasion by parents. No thanks. I don't need the stress and have precious little time for readmit conferences and paperwork when I know that it won't change the student's behavior. They generally don't get in trouble. I'd rather just deal with the kid myself and be done with it.

I have multiple teachers in my family, and I know it's a thankless job. I do what I do today because of the positive influence certain teachers had on me as a child. So I just want to say "Thanx" for hanging in there.

[firstandten]

Many teachers have told me that the problem is not so much with the kids its the parents. The unruly parents as DT points out are the real problem. You either don't hear from them or when you do its because they don't like you as a teacher making their kid accountable for some thing they did or did not do. I guess the parents figure " I don't hold my kid accountable so why should you ?" That's why I maintain that the improvement that we all want to see in education starts with the parents and their attitude toward the educational process

[TexasT]

Interesting discussion. I have heard a bit about this from the student, so good to hear a different perspective.

Also, that link isn't working for me. Is it on my end or are others having problems?

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...
I agree with the zero tolerance
...snip...

I have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies. All policies need to be implemented with judgement -- not hard rules.

[Honky Tonk]

Interesting discussion. I have heard a bit about this from the student, so good to hear a different perspective.

Also, that link isn't working for me. Is it on my end or are others having problems?

The link does appear to be dead now. Try this one:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...RO01/303230382

[Eber Brock Ward]

I have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies. All policies need to be implemented with judgement -- not hard rules.

I have zero tolerance for people that have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies!

[Honky Tonk]

I have zero tolerance for people that have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies!

I have no tolerence for your post.

[Zacha341]

Hah! We've arrived at a grand nimbus, a reductionist grand solvent down to zero sum absolute [[or something nil). Brilliant!

I have zero tolerance for people that have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies!

[Wesley Mouch]

Who knows about the inflexable suspension policy now in force in DPS high schools. Many students marched to protest it:
http://m.detnews.com/metro/article?a...3230382&f=1211

I just can't imagine that teachers and administrators are putting together all the paperwork and counselor and parent meetings that the marchers imply when they say that students are routinely suspended for things like the "wrong color shoes." it would eat up all your time.


As for back-talk- it sounds relatively minor. However, I have friends that have been called whores and worse by students, so some back-talk can be very aggressive.

If I didn't want to be suspended and thus threaten my educational success and future, I guess I would abjure back-talking my teachers and wear the right shoes to school. I'm sure the shoe requirement can't be too onerous even for poor families. In fact, I would guess that the shoe requirement is made with income in mind.

But seriously folks, its quite reasonable to have policies. And reasonable to enforce them. What so many protesters forget it that any policy will sometimes be enforced badly. That's bad. But worse is not enforcing any policies because you're afraid of your students.

I would suspect that a 'wrong shoe color' violation was a 'last straw'. Sometimes you do have to draw the line with children. Otherwise they turn out to be city councilors when they grow up.

[DetroitTeacher]

I guess I treat the kids like I gave birth to them so getting in trouble with me is something they'd not rather do. I give them a what-for, don't do it again, or the famous "mama look" [[as my students call it) and usually whatever rotten behavior is happening quickly stops. I've had times where nothing worked and the kid begged me to write them up and suspend them. I'd rather be in a tank with scorpions [[is usually my reply). If they WANT me to suspend them, then something else is planned for the next few days. I won't do it. Last laugh and all. I can handle unruly teens, it's the adults that I would rather not have to confront.

Many teachers have told me that the problem is not so much with the kids its the parents. The unruly parents as DT points out are the real problem. You either don't hear from them or when you do its because they don't like you as a teacher making their kid accountable for some thing they did or did not do. I guess the parents figure " I don't hold my kid accountable so why should you ?" That's why I maintain that the improvement that we all want to see in education starts with the parents and their attitude toward the educational process