Penske Corporate HQ - Why Bloomfield if Penske's such a Detroit booster?

[Bham1982]

If you want the city to turn around, make the extra effort and stop being an arm chair urban planner expecting someone else to invest in the city, or work down there so that the city becomes nicer for when you attend a Red Wings or Tigers game.

You mean "if you want to turn downtown around".

The improvements downtown have little to no effect on the rest of the city.

The problems in Detroit have almost nothing to do with downtown, and if every corporation mentioned in this thread were downtown, Detroit would be in basically the same shape it's in now.

[Wesley Mouch]

I was not trying to criticize you, but rather just vent about the various people, whether that be law firms, ad agencies [[though we did get a win today with Campbell-Ewald), parts suppliers ect..Who are so concerned about the turnaround of Detroit, but want to stay in their cushy suburban office campus.

I didn't take your comment personally, and I trust you didn't either.

There's nothing at all wrong with having a HQ in a 'cushy suburb'. Masco's headquarters is cushily on a miserable street of strip malls, next to K-Mart, near a freeway. I bet its 100% paid off. Maybe they'll consider relocation when its time -- but until them, I'm glad they are a Detroit-based company.

[Hermod]

There's nothing at all wrong with having a HQ in a 'cushy suburb'. Masco's headquarters is cushily on a miserable street of strip malls, next to K-Mart, near a freeway. I bet its 100% paid off. Maybe they'll consider relocation when its time -- but until them, I'm glad they are a Detroit-based company.

You also have to consider the happiness of your work force. They went to work for you and purchased homes as convenient to the work place as possible for them.

Now you want to uproot them, lengthen their commute, and degrade their quality of life all for making a contribution to "social engineering". How many of their employees want to work in a "vibrant downtown"?

[Wesley Mouch]

You also have to consider the happiness of your work force. They went to work for you and purchased homes as convenient to the work place as possible for them.

Now you want to uproot them, lengthen their commute, and degrade their quality of life all for making a contribution to "social engineering". How many of their employees want to work in a "vibrant downtown"?

I think an increasing number of employees, especially those who are younger, are drawn to the 'vibrant downtown'.

But a measure of a company or a man is not solely their willingness to move their HQ downtown. They sometimes have other issues, as you point out.

[Huggybear]

If you are seriously suggesting that Penske is not committed to Detroit because he doesn't move his business here, all I can say is that you had better not be [[1) driving a car made somewhere other than Detroit-Hamtramck or Jefferson North and [[2) shopping on Amazon or in the suburbs for anything you could buy in Detroit. After all, being committed means holding nothing back, right?

This thread has implicitly [[if not explicitly) attacked several of the biggest contributors to Detroit's cultural life, without which it would be an uncultured hellhole. If you spend any time at the DIA, the Opera, or the Orchestra, you'd see that City of Detroit residents and companies are not very common on the donor walls. Even as a Detroit resident, I would rather see their money go to supporting institutions that hit above Detroit's weight than to being some handful of water thrown onto the inferno of city finances.

And don't underestimate the effect of CEO residence on corporate siting. WTVS moved to Wixom because its head lived there. Comerica moved to Dallas because Ralph Babb wanted to live there. Bank of America [[and the rest of the big banks in Charlotte) are there because the head of a tiny regional bank bought BoA and moved all of its employees there. If Penske is in Bloomfield because it's near his house, tell me where someone of his station and wealth lives in Detroit.* I won't hold my breath.

HB

* At the same time, to derisive comments about the "vibrant downtown," it is far easier to hire [[and retain) a 20-30 year old in Detroit than in Oakland County. Unlike Dan Gilbert, someone like Penske may have an older workforce that is not [[a) eager to be uprooted or [[b) interested in a place relatively far from any quality schools.

[kanfar]

If you are seriously suggesting that Penske is not committed to Detroit because he doesn't move his business here, all I can say is that you had better not be [[1) driving a car made somewhere other than Detroit-Hamtramck or Jefferson North and [[2) shopping on Amazon or in the suburbs for anything you could buy in Detroit. After all, being committed means holding nothing back, right?

This thread has implicitly [[if not explicitly) attacked several of the biggest contributors to Detroit's cultural life, without which it would be an uncultured hellhole. If you spend any time at the DIA, the Opera, or the Orchestra, you'd see that City of Detroit residents and companies are not very common on the donor walls. Even as a Detroit resident, I would rather see their money go to supporting institutions that hit above Detroit's weight than to being some handful of water thrown onto the inferno of city finances.

And don't underestimate the effect of CEO residence on corporate siting. WTVS moved to Wixom because its head lived there. Comerica moved to Dallas because Ralph Babb wanted to live there. Bank of America [[and the rest of the big banks in Charlotte) are there because the head of a tiny regional bank bought BoA and moved all of its employees there. If Penske is in Bloomfield because it's near his house, tell me where someone of his station and wealth lives in Detroit.* I won't hold my breath.

HB

* At the same time, to derisive comments about the "vibrant downtown," it is far easier to hire [[and retain) a 20-30 year old in Detroit than in Oakland County. Unlike Dan Gilbert, someone like Penske may have an older workforce that is not [[a) eager to be uprooted or [[b) interested in a place relatively far from any quality schools.

Totally agree. How about a big thank you to Penske versus what else he should do. I don't think a lot of people in the private sector get anough credit and thank yous for the wonderful things they do for us.

[Gistok]

Also, one has to be careful what they wish for... just look at the Ilitch's... yes they've done a lot with moving their HQ to Detroit, et al... but has anyone else done as much in "urban clearance"??

[Wesley Mouch]

Also, one has to be careful what they wish for... just look at the Ilitch's... yes they've done a lot with moving their HQ to Detroit, et al... but has anyone else done as much in "urban clearance"??

First, a big thank you to Penske.

Second, I don't like a lot of what Ilitch has done in Downtown, but like Penske, he sure did step up when no one else did. Around here I know this gets lost amongst the hate.

[DetroitPlanner]

Also, one has to be careful what they wish for... just look at the Ilitch's... yes they've done a lot with moving their HQ to Detroit, et al... but has anyone else done as much in "urban clearance"??

Penske has shown more leadership in the Detroit turn around than the entire llitch clan combined. All they want to do is exploit their position and try to grab as much of the entertainment pie as they possibly can.

Most of the world sees no distinction between Bloomfield and Detroit. To them, it is all Detroit. Let be realistic and remove the political boundaries that have been set up to exploit, divide, and conquer.

[Hermod]

Most of the world sees no distinction between Bloomfield and Detroit. To them, it is all Detroit. Let be realistic and remove the political boundaries that have been set up to exploit, divide, and conquer.

In a lot of cases, the political boundaries were set up to prevent "exploitation". When a rural is just farms and stuff, the nearby city has absolutely no interest in any annexation. If a "tax positive" operation like a factory or a shopping center sets up on rural land, the adjacent city wants to annex that area [[and only that area). The township of Troy incorporated as the city of Troy when it was mostly a rural area because Birmingham, Royal Oak, and Clawson were nibbling away at the "tax positive" areas of Troy Township which adjoined their cities.

[Detroitnerd]

This thread has implicitly [[if not explicitly) attacked several of the biggest contributors to Detroit's cultural life, without which it would be an uncultured hellhole.

Really? Like, there is no culture outside a few select institutions? OK ...

I concede your point, though. That piece of conceptual art he laid in on Belle Isle really helps frame the Scott Fountain nicely.

[casscorridor]

I think one way to tie the region together, while building up the urban core, without the claim of "poaching" is to connect, via rapid transit, major suburban job centers as well as the airport, with Downtown Detroit.

Here is my vision... Grade seperated rapid transit on the following routes: Downtown-Troy via Woodward, Maple and Coolidge; Downtown-Southfield via Woodward, McNichols and the Lodge; Downtown-Dearborn-Airport via Michigan Ave, Telegraph and I-94; and Southfield-Dearborn via Southfield Freeway. I would then introduce commuter rail service throughout the region using existing corridors. Finally, connector bus service connecting all stations to residential areas.

This would likely lead to an intense build up in all areas served by the rail, but especially in Downtown Detroit which would be the most central and therefore most desirable for residential and commercial development. It would also make our region, as a whole, much more competitive on a global level.

[Detroitnerd]

I think one way to tie the region together, while building up the urban core, without the claim of "poaching" is to connect, via rapid transit, major suburban job centers as well as the airport, with Downtown Detroit.

Hey, pinko! Go build your magic choo-choo in some other People's Soviet! We love our cars! Winters are cold here! Road pay for themselves! Trains can't run on a farebox! We have car companies, so we should use cars for everything! Commie! Hippie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlTM4INe-5A

[Shollin]

This may be crazy and wild but instead of simply trying to just move jobs around, how about we focus on getting companies looking to expand in other markets to chose Detroit? Why not recruit ad agencies or law firms or tech companies or any company that does not have a presence in Detroit? Then we would add new jobs instead of just shifting them around.

[bailey]

This may be crazy and wild but instead of simply trying to just move jobs around, how about we focus on getting companies looking to expand in other markets to chose Detroit? Why not recruit ad agencies or law firms or tech companies or any company that does not have a presence in Detroit? Then we would add new jobs instead of just shifting them around.

Yeah, if we could just recruit more companies! Why hasn't THAT been tried before!?!? Call the Mayor! Problem solved!

[Honky Tonk]

Yeah, if we could just recruit more companies! Why hasn't THAT been tried before!?!? Call the Mayor! Problem solved!

You know what else I just thought of? What if we can get people from the 'burbs to move back to Detroit???????

[Wesley Mouch]

In a lot of cases, the political boundaries were set up to prevent "exploitation". When a rural is just farms and stuff, the nearby city has absolutely no interest in any annexation. If a "tax positive" operation like a factory or a shopping center sets up on rural land, the adjacent city wants to annex that area [[and only that area). The township of Troy incorporated as the city of Troy when it was mostly a rural area because Birmingham, Royal Oak, and Clawson were nibbling away at the "tax positive" areas of Troy Township which adjoined their cities.

True enough, but going back even earlier, there are some things like policing, garbage collection, code enforcement that provide for the general good. These other 'exploitation' issue are politics -- an unavoidable part of government. There's no rational, progressive reason for the balkanization of local governments -- except power and politics.

[Shollin]

Yeah, if we could just recruit more companies! Why hasn't THAT been tried before!?!? Call the Mayor! Problem solved!

I'm sorry I didn't know it was tried before since out of town companies aren't moving to Detroit and the top two threads in this forum are about moving jobs from the suburbs to Detroit.

[aj3647]

Unless you look at all the taxes and fees that Detroiters pay. And also include the money that is extracted from Detroit privately. That provides a better view.

What numbers are you basing this on? In a city with a double-digit unemployment rate and a poverty level of over 33%, how much do you think city residents are contributing in tax dollars versus how much they get back in state and federal services/spending, not to mention all the state/federal benefits [[unemployment, food stamps, Medicaid, SSDI, welfare, etc).

I don't think anyone with a functioning brain and ounce of objectivity can dispute that Detroit's very existence is HEAVILY subsidized by both the state and federal taxpayer.

[Shollin]

What numbers are you basing this on? In a city with a double-digit unemployment rate and a poverty level of over 33%, how much do you think city residents are contributing in tax dollars versus how much they get back in state and federal services/spending, not to mention all the state/federal benefits [[unemployment, food stamps, Medicaid, SSDI, welfare, etc).

I don't think anyone with a functioning brain and ounce of objectivity can dispute that Detroit's very existence is HEAVILY subsidized by both the state and federal taxpayer.

You weren't aware that the suburbs are much more subsidized then Detroit? Mortgage interest deductions are not available to homes purchased in Detroit apparently, and unlike Detroit, the suburbs don't have half their population not paying property tax.

[Gistok]

First, a big thank you to Penske.

Second, I don't like a lot of what Ilitch has done in Downtown, but like Penske, he sure did step up when no one else did. Around here I know this gets lost amongst the hate.

You are right in what you say... usually I'm more pro-Ilitch than anti-Ilitch... but I'm actually still on the fence... pending the outcome of 1) the United Artists complex fate, 2) the Fine Arts Building facade fate, 3) the Moose Lodge fate, 4) the Eddystone and its' neighbors fate, 5) where and how he builds a new arena... 6) and when he gets around to restorig the Detroit Life Building.

One of the biggest things he's done [[probably has his motives though)... was to pay up the utility bills of the Masonic Temple. Had that closed... it would have been scrapped and left as a white elephant in no time after the remaining lodges moved to the burbs...

[downtownguy]

You are right in what you say... usually I'm more pro-Ilitch than anti-Ilitch... but I'm actually still on the fence... pending the outcome of 1) the United Artists complex fate, 2) the Fine Arts Building facade fate, 3) the Moose Lodge fate, 4) the Eddystone and its' neighbors fate, 5) where and how he builds a new arena... 6) and when he gets around to restorig the Detroit Life Building.

Let's not forget the historic Madison-Lenox Hotel! Oh, wait. He tore that down, didn't he?

[Hermod]

Hey, pinko! Go build your magic choo-choo in some other People's Soviet! We love our cars! Winters are cold here! Road pay for themselves! Trains can't run on a farebox! We have car companies, so we should use cars for everything! Commie! Hippie!

Don't worry, Nerd, you will get a choo choo soon.

Attachment 18517

[ParisianLesion]

Bumping this old thread for a couple reasons:

1. For further Illitch-hating it's interesting to see Gistok's comments 3 posts up from 6.5 years ago and, except for the stadium, none of those things have been done yet...

2. Penske, in a huge move, just purchased Indy Car:
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...ke/4154392002/

When is this guy going to move his damn company downtown in a final, overdue iconic move?? I can't speak to how much sense it makes logistically for their company but by god it sure has all the right optics! And this company is huge! $32B in revenues? Anyway, would just love a tower with the Penske logo on it

[Metro25]

Does Penske have enough people at HQ to build an actual tower?

Moving downtown or New Center for really any company seems like a no-brainer today, maybe not so much 7 or so years ago. Bedrock should court them, they'd make a fine tenant at Monroe Block.