Michigan's Weight-per-Axle limit

[Detroitnerd]

It's one of those things that confounds me. MDOT's piece on Michigan's insanely high truck weight limits seems like some smooth sales talk:

Michigan permits trucks up to 164,000 pounds on the system. However, different than other states, Michigan requires a lower weight per axle which more evenly distributes the load and reduces wear and tear on roads. MDOT engineers have thoroughly studied this issue and the result of this research is that heavier trucks do not cause a disproportionate amount of damage as long as the weight is evenly distributed over an appropriate number of axles. Additionally, trucks over 80,000 pounds make up only less than 5% of all trucks operating on our roads. If Michigan were to reduce it's truck weight laws to 80,000 pounds, more damage to the system may occur because of the need to put more trucks on the road. More trucks on the road raise serious questions concerning safety and traffic congestion. Several other states are currently looking at Michigan's axle weight laws and are considering adopting similar laws.

Now, bear in mind, when you cross over into Ontario or Ohio, the roads are much smoother and less cracked.

Not only that, but the lanes to the right, mostly used by trucks, are the most damaged. The lanes to the left and the least damaged.

Therefore, I conclude that MDOT is full of shit.

Thoughts?

[Gannon]

This has always been sold as a way to get cross-country truckers to drive slightly north of Ohio, at least on the way to Canada.

It is bs, since trucks cannot magically double their loads by crossing a state line.

So it MUST be a nod to businesses only working within the state. Who runs heavy here with a one-way delivery?! Trash? Car Parts? Water. Sand. Other mined materials. Farming, although I cannot imagine 164,000 pounds of anything edible in one truck.

Hell, it used to be gas, too, until all those double-bottomed tankers flipped and burned that one summer.

I can see how the limits were introduced, and why they stay. Some of the heaviest hitters in the state suffer if it goes down...and their suppliers, ready for 164,000 pound loads, have a virtual monopoly. Who's to bet that Matty is in on this, too?!

[rb336]

The thing that always bugged me is the number of trucks that jump up I-75 to I-94 just to get past the Ohio/Indiana tolls on their way to/from Chicago and points west

[Gannon]

THAT is why they say they increase the axle limits and have lower diesel taxes for trucks than average! heh...

[Meddle]

Not only that, but the lanes to the right, mostly used by trucks, are the most damaged.

You noticed that too, eh? I remember the right lanes frequently had actual ruts/indentations in the pavement. I don't notice that in other states.

[Meddle]

Hell, it used to be gas, too, until all those double-bottomed tankers flipped and burned that one summer.

When was that, mid 80s sometime? I remember it, but I don't remember when.

Edit >> Found this Toledo Blade article dated 1978:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...pg=7020,589063

And this one from 1977:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=4421,2153647

[Gannon]

You noticed that too, eh? I remember the right lanes frequently had actual ruts/indentations in the pavement. I don't notice that in other states.

Oh, I've seen it loads.

I remember a road trip where my friend insisted on driving in the left lane, because it was 'smoother'. I'd wake to find him cruisin' the passing lane, and get agitated.

Certainly, the pavement expansion joints were rougher in the right-hand lane through Missouri and Texas and states west...but I continued to drive to the right, which he said disturbed his sleep.

[Meddle]

I've seen a lot of situations where the right lane is rougher and more worn, but I don't recall the indentations in other places. I remember some MI roads where you could almost let go of the steering wheel and ride those ruts like rails.

[Gannon]

When was that, mid 80s sometime? I remember it, but I don't remember when.

I would've said late-70s, just around the time I was beginning to drive legally.

Found this truck-porn site on a search:

http://hankstruckpictures.com/t_gibson.htm

Search about half-way down, he has a picture of some which were still in service in the early-80s. Says the metro-counties ruled them illegal first, then the state.

Sounds about right.

Cheers

[Gannon]

I've seen a lot of situations where the right lane is rougher and more worn, but I don't recall the indentations in other places. I remember some MI roads where you could almost let go of the steering wheel and ride those ruts like rails.

Oh I hear that...right...but I've seen the sheen worn off the concrete surface, with more pitting. The indentations would be from the continual displacement of the somewhat-still-liquid concrete...read somewhere it takes a ridiculous time to completely cure. Never thought twice about that until now. But that could only BE from greater pressure per area.

[mjs]

This has always been sold as a way to get cross-country truckers to drive slightly north of Ohio, at least on the way to Canada.

It is bs, since trucks cannot magically double their loads by crossing a state line.

So it MUST be a nod to businesses only working within the state. Who runs heavy here with a one-way delivery?! Trash? Car Parts? Water. Sand. Other mined materials. Farming, although I cannot imagine 164,000 pounds of anything edible in one truck.

Hell, it used to be gas, too, until all those double-bottomed tankers flipped and burned that one summer.

I can see how the limits were introduced, and why they stay. Some of the heaviest hitters in the state suffer if it goes down...and their suppliers, ready for 164,000 pound loads, have a virtual monopoly. Who's to bet that Matty is in on this, too?!

The watsefulness of the heavy limits drives me insane, but you can cut your load in half when crossing state lines by pulling two trailers with one cab. It's done with steel hauling all the time.

I also call BS on the lower weights means more trucks argument. Truck transport competes with rail. Two trucks means two times the shipping cost.

[jackie5275]

Is the limit even enforced? I always see closed weigh stations on I-75 going up north.

[Detroitnerd]

Is the limit even enforced? I always see closed weigh stations on I-75 going up north.

I know I used to see them open in the 1970s and 1980s. I haven't seen one open in Michigan in AGES.

[kenp]

The one between Pine Knob [[DTE) and Great Lakes Crossing is open quite a bit.

[Honky Tonk]

Is the limit even enforced? I always see closed weigh stations on I-75 going up north.

I'm not totaly positive, but don't the weight and measures people patrol the freeways in a squad car, and have a device that the truck rolls one wheel on, and they can tell whether or not it's overweight?

[jackie5275]

I'm not totaly positive, but don't the weight and measures people patrol the freeways in a squad car, and have a device that the truck rolls one wheel on, and they can tell whether or not it's overweight?

Yeah, but I don't know how many of those positions are still left in State gov't. I think I seem them once or twice a year.

[Gannon]

Yeah, but I don't know how many of those positions are still left in State gov't. I think I seem them once or twice a year.

I see the 'hit-squad' blacked-out SUV on I-94 between Inkster and Southfield often...they've got eyes for anyone without the DOT number plainly printed on the side, even down to white box vans.

Only see them weighing occasionally, though.

[wolverine]

On what surfaces are these being tested? I mean asphalt is particularly vulnerable compared to concrete, especially when it uses a ballasted base as opposed to reinforced concrete slabs that are more adept at load distribution. That's where you start to see those indentations form. Plus wear and tear from vehicles is more of an assist to already weather damaged roads.

You'll find pavement in the US that has endured increases in truck traffic as well as heavier loading that is over 50 years in age and can still be serviced without full replacement.

It makes me wonder if this is a delicate balancing act between knowing our roadways can handle great weight and traffic potential or hoping for more frequent construction activity to keep the business going.

[Detroitnerd]

Maybe this is because road-builders get more business, companies get to employ fewer truckers per load, and we all are quietly forced to pay for it.

When the big guys get together and decide it's "win-win" for them, it usually means it's "lose-lose" for the rest of us.

[canuck]

Maybe this is because road-builders get more business, companies get to employ fewer truckers per load, and we all are quietly forced to pay for it.

When the big guys get together and decide it's "win-win" for them, it usually means it's "lose-lose" for the rest of us.

This reminds me of the commission investigating organized crime links to the construction industry in Quebec.

Out of the 20 major contractors that submitted for contracts of sidewalk repairs and rebuilds in Montreal, 5 of them won 90% of the bids for a long time. These five were owned by folks whose families hailed from the same town in Sicily; Cattolica Eraclea; the town where Godfather Nick Rizzuto also came from. Last week, the go-between for cash payments from construction firms to the Rizzuto clan was questioned by the commissioners about his nickname; Mr. Sidewalk...

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/201...-doesnt-crack/

The commission had city engineers explain how they got millions in kickbacks without blushing...
Last week the police cracked down on City Hall at the end of a work day, questioned 25 people of interest, including interim mayor Michael Applebaum and took off with a bunch of files.
Applebaum insists he was threatened by police union president about his goal to end the three/four day workweek, insisting he would bring out details that would harm his reputation...

[MikeM]

Seems like the number of axles would be the determining factor. Fewer pounds per axle, sure, but then more axles per hour per mile.

[old guy]

I worked doing bridge construction briefly, many years ago and remember that the load limit was always restricted to 80,000 lbs. I looked it up and federal laws pertaining to interstate bridges are still restricted to 80,000 lbs.