Belle Isle Police Crackdown

**cman710** · July-02-09, 12:43 AM

Belle Isle's two faces: Island jewel, lawless landmark

David Josar / The Detroit News

Detroit --To the Belle Isle regulars, the change begins about 7:30 p.m., as families and middle-age visitors give way to the teenagers and 20-somethings.

Chess boards and folding tables are replaced by SUVs with open hatches that function as impromptu speakeasies with loud sound systems, the clothing becomes a little more revealing, the scent of marijuana sometimes fills the air and the easy crawl of traffic morphs into custom-car gridlock with occasional halts for drag racing.

To combat what city officials say is growing lawlessness, the city has implemented police stings and beefed up maintenance to ensure the island remains as beloved as it has for generations. Since April, police have issued more than 4,000 citations for offenses such as underage drinking and speeding, made at least 19 felony arrests and investigated more than 650 other incidents. Once, police were issuing so many tickets, they ran out of books for them, officials say.

"We want this to remain a city jewel," said Alicia C. Minter, the city's recreation director. She described the island as "not dangerous ...but dicey" and said the uptick in attention is to "make it inviting for everyone."
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Read the rest of the story here.

I am glad that they are giving the issue some attention, and am glad to see Lt. Johnson taking a pro-active, public approach [[though cynics will probably reply that the tickets are to raise money for the city).

**choquant** · July-02-09, 02:16 AM

Glad to hear this. I love Belle Isle, but it does get quite dicey after a certain time, when it fills with people who pollute the air from their constant cruising and leave their trash all over the place.

They might try just charging a small fee for cars to go onto the island. That way, people wishing to enjoy it could bike or walk in for free and those who want to show off their cars might be deterred. It could also help pay for some maintainance of the island as well.

**Searay215** · July-02-09, 07:31 AM

Choquant, I totally agree with you and have been saying this for years, which of course the city counsel is apposed to and that is to charge cars to enter the park. It don't have to be a lot, just enough to help pay for maintenance. All the Metro Parks charge and there isn't problems like this there.....although they are not open all night either, and that may not be a bad idea either. Close the island after a certain time.....just my humble opinion

**gumby** · July-02-09, 07:34 AM

I thought they closed the park at dusk. Or did they stop doing that.

**DocTerry** · July-02-09, 07:48 AM

It wasn't dusk - I think it was about 11 pm last summer. We were there a couple of times for big screen movies and as soon as they were over, DPD was quite assertive about getting people off the island. The same assertiveness was there on non-movie nights - by 10:30, they were literally herding you off the island. Annoying, but understandable and necessary, given that we just don't have the funds to keep a police presence the way we need to, and that some of us simply refuse to even clean up after ourselves. I agree - a system similar to that used by the Metroparks should be implemented, with perhaps a "free day" on Saturdays or Sundays to insure that families without resources aren't entirely closed out.

**Jmil** · July-02-09, 08:10 AM

What makes you think that "dicey" people would not have enough money to pay the "small fee"?

It May be that Detroiters don't want a fee to enter Belle Isle, because we already pay 3% income tax, property tax, and $300 garbage fee. Not to mention the DWSD rates keep getting raised. Our government officials suck, and so do city services. Our recreation department is poor. Neighborhood parks are in bad shape. Keeping Belle Isle free is one small benefit.

Maybe they should charge a NON resident fee.

**Johnnny5** · July-02-09, 08:19 AM

The lack of an entry fee comes up at least a couple times per year on here. Each time I read the entire thread, and I'm still waiting for a good excuse why a small fee should not be put in place. The only reason ever offered is "Parks should be free" [[Which I'll admit would be ideal, but the issues on Belle Isle have overshadowed that argument a long time ago.)
My suggestion [[again) is a daily per vehicle fee [[Perhaps $2 per car for residents and $4-$5 for non residents), an annual sticker for those who use the park frequently, reduced/eliminate fees for the disabled and seniors, and complementary annual stickers for those who lack the funds, but are willing to donate their time to the park in someway. Those traveling by bus, on foot or by bicycle would still pay nothing.

**Johnnny5** · July-02-09, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Jmil

What makes you think that "dicey" people would not have enough money to pay the "small fee"?

It May be that Detroiters don't want a fee to enter Belle Isle, because we already pay 3% income tax, property tax, and $300 garbage fee..

A daily fee would reduce the "cruising" dramatically. If one can drive around the rest of the city for free there's little incentive to pay to "cruise" Belle Isle. I sympathize with your argument that the already high city taxes should provide for free entry to the parks. The other side of that issue is that with a properly managed fee system in place Belle Isle could be maintained at a level that allowed everyone to fully enjoy it.
I do remember enjoying Belle Isle more when it had open restroom facilities, emptied trash bins and a biking lane not coated is broken glass, but to be truthful it's been a while.

**Jmil** · July-02-09, 08:34 AM

J5, while you may feel strongly about a fee, you are not due a reason why folks don't want a fee. Because of your strong desire to implement a fee, any reason given you would dismiss anyway. The fact that you already have set up a fee schedule is amusing at best.

**Jmil** · July-02-09, 08:39 AM

J5, I have been going to Belle Isle for more years than I care to state. While the Island was much nicer in my youth, so was Detroit. Not sure when the last time you were on the island, but most restrooms I go into are open & clean. The trash is emptied regularly.

**rajdet** · July-02-09, 08:40 AM

I am against charging a fee. I think they are handling this the right way. Kids have been going to the park on hormone driven impulse for as long as it's been a public park. I bet a good percentage of Detroiters were conceived on Belle Ilse. In the late 70's all the kids would meet at the bath house on the beach, tune in the Electrifying Mojo, and have an impromptu disco all night long. Let the kids have some place to be kids, just make sure the fun is good and clean.

**DocTerry** · July-02-09, 08:49 AM

I was not implying that "dicey" people, whatever that may mean, could not pay a fee - the cars on the island at night are a testimony to the fact that a small fee would not be prohibitive to that particular group. And yes, as a resident, I would support no fees for city residents - other cities and counties have either no fee or reduced fees in their parks for their residents and that makes sense as well. My hope would be that the fees would not discourage people from using the park, but would rather go toward the increased maintenance required. It's not that there aren't trash cans or that they are always over-flowing, for example, but that too many don't make the effort to use them. Given the large numbers of people using the park, even a small per car fee could add up.

**Jmil** · July-02-09, 08:56 AM

Docterry, I hate the mess people leave behind all over the city. Ever try going into the Fuddruckers parking lot after a major event? Broken glass and litter everywhere. It is disgusting. However we cannot charge a small fee for every area were pigs congregate. I would love to see a public service campaign about littering and respecting your city. I would also like to see more accessible garbage cans for folks to use. The Fuddruckers lot has one garbage can, at the far end of the lot. Not very smart.

**Lowell** · July-02-09, 08:57 AM

I agree with Jmil. Detroit residents already carry enough burdens and deserve that great benefit free of charge.

However, a non-resident car fee is long overdue [walk on, bus on, bike on free]. I would happily pay and have already donated hundreds of dollars over the years to BI projects. Many others I know feel the same. Just ask and it will be given.

A minimum 2 dollar day fee or 50 dollar annual sticker fee seems more than reasonable. I was at a park in Miami earlier this year and we paid more than that to get in. It was no big deal and the place was packed.

I mainly go BI to play handball and occasionally follow that with a swim at the beach. How much would that cost at a private club when winter comes? At least 10 dollars with an annual fee around 500 dollars.

**DocTerry** · July-02-09, 09:10 AM

Yes, Jmil, it is absolutely everywhere. I live a stone's throw from Michigan and Trumbull, and every game or show at Comerica et al brings the trash - to say nothing of the opening day and St Pat's parade "leftovers". As much as it drives me nuts in my yard, it disturbs me even more in the parks. But, it was just one example, in my mind, of what a fee could help with at Belle Isle.

**detmsp** · July-02-09, 09:24 AM

A non-resident fee does seem reasonable. If you go to a public golf course, ice arena, etc in a place like birmingham, you'll pay a non-resident fee. no reason why this can't be different.

Lorax · July-02-09, 09:38 AM

A non-resident fee is certainly reasonable, and closing the park at night is also a good idea.

Maintenance would certainly be easier too, and maintenance is really the problem with BI.

I'm really more for removing the concrete pad, and if they want to have races again, do it on the mainland. Build a track at City Airport, the State Fairgrounds, or any number of other huge tracts of land available in Detroit.

**Johnnny5** · July-02-09, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Jmil

J5, I have been going to Belle Isle for more years than I care to state. While the Island was much nicer in my youth, so was Detroit. Not sure when the last time you were on the island, but most restrooms I go into are open & clean. The trash is emptied regularly.

I normally visit Belle Isle 4-5 times during the summer, but my last time there was around August of last year. Of the 3 bathrooms I approached only one was open [[The one by the beach). No stall doors, no TP, no hand soap and filthy enough that those I was with decided it was time to go elsewhere. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has the same concerns.

**Gannon** · July-02-09, 09:55 AM

Gumby,

The Island was closed at night because it became the last place Kwhyme could hide from Carlita. Remember Kwame-time?! He always wanted to get some.

After Kilpatrick left office and his puppets were off the police force, and they had ALREADY secured the copper from the fountain...it is now fair game. If I were an albino deer I'd be shakin' in my hooves...

No cheers on this one...last thing I need is Johnny Law messin' with my meditation time...

**drjeff** · July-02-09, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

I normally visit Belle Isle 4-5 times during the summer, but my last time there was around August of last year. Of the 3 bathrooms I approached only one was open [[The one by the beach). No stall doors, no TP, no hand soap and filthy enough that those I was with decided it was time to go elsewhere. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has the same concerns.

They've renovated several of the bathrooms around the island and they are quite nice and kept clean. However, they lock them at around 3 pm for some reason.

**ZRX Doug** · July-02-09, 10:39 AM

I'm intrigued..why is it that such a large number of folks feel that drivers should pay a fee while pedestrians & bicyclists get a free pass?
Y'all got some sort of mad-on against those of us who don't live within easy biking distance? Or is it just some sorta innate anti-car sentiment?
Here's a plan..how'sabout bicyclists start paying yearly registration fees and road use taxes just like their big brothers with four wheels are forced to do, and all the cash gleaned from the two wheeled folks wallets can be put towards keeping our parks clean & safe..

**cman710** · July-02-09, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by ZRX Doug

I'm intrigued..why is it that such a large number of folks feel that drivers should pay a fee while pedestrians & bicyclists get a free pass?
Y'all got some sort of mad-on against those of us who don't live within easy biking distance? Or is it just some sorta innate anti-car sentiment?
Here's a plan..how'sabout bicyclists start paying yearly registration fees and road use taxes just like their big brothers with four wheels are forced to do, and all the cash gleaned from the two wheeled folks wallets can be put towards keeping our parks clean & safe..

Doug, I think many people [[in my opinion understandably) view cars, or at least the number of cars, as a downside on Belle Isle. Also, many would prefer that the island not become a cruising spot. If that is the case, then it makes sense to charge money for entering by car, as it would reduce the number of people who bring cars. Charging a small fee to achieve this aim would be preferable to any other possibility, such as limiting the number of cars on the island at any given time or preventing cars from entering the park after a given hour, because it preserves people's choice to bring their car [[at least for those with income to pay the small fee - something would need to be done to address that issue), while also probably reducing the number of cars on the island

On this view, not charging for bicycles and walking makes sense because those people's mode of transportation is not causing negative effects.

crawford · July-02-09, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by ZRX Doug

I'm intrigued..why is it that such a large number of folks feel that drivers should pay a fee while pedestrians & bicyclists get a free pass?
Y'all got some sort of mad-on against those of us who don't live within easy biking distance? Or is it just some sorta innate anti-car sentiment?

Uh, or maybe we recognize that cars pollute, take up space, are dangerous to others, and put added stress on the park?

On what planet are cars, human beings and bikes treated exactly the same? If I visit downtown Detroit by bus, bike or foot, you think I should still pay a parking garage fee, just so everyone is treated "equally"?

Originally Posted by ZRX Doug

Here's a plan..how'sabout bicyclists start paying yearly registration fees and road use taxes just like their big brothers with four wheels are forced to do, and all the cash gleaned from the two wheeled folks wallets can be put towards keeping our parks clean & safe.

So you want to incentivize people to NOT use nonpolluting, healthy, space-saving means of transportation? What's next, a tax credit if you drive a Monster Truck to the corner store?

**ZRX Doug** · July-02-09, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by crawford

Uh, or maybe we recognize that cars pollute, take up space, are dangerous to others, and put added stress on the park?

Um, no. "Cars" are a mode of transportation, no more, no less. Cars do not use the park, people do. Cars do not toss their trash on the ground, people do. If you wish to charge a fee for the use of the park, then charge ALL who use it.

On what planet are cars, human beings and bikes treated exactly the same? If I visit downtown Detroit by bus, bike or foot, you think I should still pay a parking garage fee, just so everyone is treated "equally"?

Exactly correct. It is high time that bicyclists started carrying their own weight. They claim all the advantages of road usage and none of the disadvantages. If your bike takes up space in a parking garage, you should most certainly pay a fee for that space. I ride motorcycles, but I still pay road use taxes, registration fees, and parking fees. Why shouldn't bicyclists?

So you want to incentivize people to NOT use nonpolluting, healthy, space-saving means of transportation? What's next, a tax credit if you drive a Monster Truck to the corner store?

Nope, I want the park to remain an attractive destination for ALL people, regardless of how those people arrive. Your plan punishes those for whom a bicycle is not a practical form of transport.
FWIW, it's not the government's duty to "incentivize" people to do anything.
In closing, thank you for answering my question..you do have a mad-on against automobiles, and your proposed fee structure is clearly motivated by it.

**Patrick** · July-02-09, 12:27 PM

I would love to see a public service campaign about littering and respecting your city

Pipe dream. Besides, nobody would pay attemntion half the time anyways. It would end up dead along with countless other "initiatves" created for the good of the city. Charge $3.50 a car and block off all the party areas along the roadside so no fools can blast their kickers and suck down Colt 45 with a blunt.