Man with Concealed Weapons Permit, May Have Mental Problems, Shoots 3.

**401don** · February-15-13, 10:37 PM

http://www.freep.com/article/2013021...text|FRONTPAGE

Another thorough background check or did he just head to the gun show?

**brizee** · February-15-13, 11:45 PM

Maybe one day this country will get the gun industry's dick out of it's throat and actually regulate, track, and limit every firearm and bullet manufactured and imported into this country.

Senseless homicide is the price we pay for this "freedom".

**Honky Tonk** · February-16-13, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by brizee

Maybe one day this country will get the gun industry's dick out of it's throat and actually regulate, track, and limit every firearm and bullet manufactured and imported into this country.

Senseless homicide is the price we pay for this "freedom".

To quote Vinx, "Freedom doesn't mean free to be dumb".

**gazhekwe** · February-16-13, 06:35 AM

I didn't see where he has a permit? It sounds like he could not speak properly, could not drive and just "picked up" the gun in the house. Somebody else being careless with their gun, which is why just a background check for the buyer is not sufficient, OR there need to be strict laws for criminal penalties for those who allow an ineligible person access to a gun which he or she uses to harm someone.

**stasu1213** · February-16-13, 09:33 AM

Let us not assume that this clown had a gun permit. This is why I still say that gun control only take guns out of the hands of law biding citizens not the criminals

**401don** · February-16-13, 09:52 AM

So you can have a concealed weapons permit without having a gun permit?

**canuck** · February-16-13, 10:09 AM

You know gunzrfun.

**wvernon** · February-16-13, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

So you can have a concealed weapons permit without having a gun permit?

You get a gun permit to buy a gun. You get a CPL [[concealed pistol license) so you can legally carry. You don't need a CPL to buy a gun. You don't need to buy a gun to get a CPL. CCW [[carrying concealed weapon) is what the police charge you with when you are caught carrying without a CPL.

**WaCoTS** · February-16-13, 11:09 AM

i dont think gun control goes far enough. i think we need to speak up to our elected leaders, so that we can get some laws on the books restricting murder. i mean clearly banning guns isnt enough. we need to ban all evil thoughts and actions. only then can we be truly safe.
[/sarcasm]

ok, back to serious-land now. im not sure why people always immediately jump to "accessibility of guns" as the culprit "in our society" as the reason for these kinds of violent acts.

we will never fix the problem of violence and murder in our society until we begin tackling our sociological issues from the root. why do we have so many people getting deranged and bent out of shape going around murdering others? you can write law after law after law after law after law...and they will be broken every time. LAWS AND POLITICIANS ARE NOT THE ANSWER. COMMUNITY AND FAMILY STRENGTH ARE THE ANSWER.

until we can fix those 2 things, our society will continue to spiral into hell. please be able to take a look at the big picture before spouting off angrily and irrationally. murder and crime existed centuries before guns were invented. let's get real. "more governmental control" never fixed ANYTHING. WE HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for this. WE need to be our brothers' keeper more often.

you wanna talk about this country having dicks of industries down it's throat, let's talk about the prison industry, shall we? how's that workin out for us? the more things you want to ban and regulate and punish, the more of our population gets locked up, at OUR expense. how bout we just lock EVERYONE up and be done with it? it's time to wake up to the fact that our gov't is useless in these matters. WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for our community and what happens in it...politicians are only good for lip service.

**iheartthed** · February-16-13, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

I didn't see where he has a permit? It sounds like he could not speak properly, could not drive and just "picked up" the gun in the house. Somebody else being careless with their gun, which is why just a background check for the buyer is not sufficient, OR there need to be strict laws for criminal penalties for those who allow an ineligible person access to a gun which he or she uses to harm someone.

Fourth paragraph:

A gun was recovered at the scene. The suspect has a concealed pistol license, police said.

**gazhekwe** · February-16-13, 11:50 AM

I saw there was a sentence blocked by some menu of other articles. The suspect has...

**aj3647** · February-16-13, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Let us not assume that this clown had a gun permit. This is why I still say that gun control only take guns out of the hands of law biding citizens not the criminals

We don't have to assume anything. The article SAYS he has a CPL. Just another "law-abiding gun owner", you know, the kind the NRA thinks should be allowed to carry a gun inside of an elementary school because he has a carry permit and therefore can be "trusted."

**313WX** · February-16-13, 01:03 PM

How often are background checks conducted for CPL holders?

**401don** · February-16-13, 01:43 PM

I understand people in high crime areas wanting to own a gun to protect themselves. What I don't understand is the millions of homes in the U.S. where guns are strewn about like dirty socks. Every day someone in a brief fit of anger or with a mental problem or some kid who doesn't know any better picks up a gun and starts firing at his relatives. They are 10 times more likely to do this than shoot an intruder and yet most Americans don't seem bothered by this.

**firstandten** · February-17-13, 12:29 AM

The culture of guns is so ingrained in our society it would be difficult to effectively enact laws to reduce the number. Guns like a few other things in our society should be difficult to obtain , and the penalty for its illegal usage should be extremely severe. People with documented mental issues should be rejected from getting a weapon. If they insist then they should be made to appeal the rejection and personally stand before a committee that would ultimately make the decision. Even though people take the position that guns don't kill people, people kill people, guns do facilitate the process to such a extent that it takes murdering someone to a different level. Look... when you are angry generally rational thought goes away, it is childs play to pick up a gun aim it at somebody and pull the trigger. Whereas its a lot more difficult to pick up a knife, throw a rock or punch somebody and get the same results as you would with a gun. As with many of the problems in our society the gun problems are intertwined with other problems which makes a solution really difficult. A comprehensive approach must be used which makes our politicians want to continue to kick the can down the road some more. My idea is just to stop the carnage not a long term solution.

**Zacha341** · February-17-13, 09:23 AM

Thank you for this info to help clarify the alphabet soup of it all! Many are confused about what means what. And no, you're right, you do NOT have to get a CPL to purchase say a shot gun for home defense.

Originally Posted by wvernon

You get a gun permit to buy a gun. You get a CPL [[concealed pistol license) so you can legally carry. You don't need a CPL to buy a gun. You don't need to buy a gun to get a CPL. CCW [[carrying concealed weapon) is what the police charge you with when you are caught carrying without a CPL.

**Zacha341** · February-17-13, 09:26 AM

Precisely. The crims, rapists and killers etc. will continue to get their bowling alley, black-market guns and ammo illegal with impunity. Not a bit of slow down will occur in that area. If anything, that market will escalate!

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Let us not assume that this clown had a gun permit. This is why I still say that gun control only take guns out of the hands of law biding citizens not the criminals

**Zacha341** · February-17-13, 09:30 AM

Fox2Detroit LetItRip will be tackling the whole issue of Gun Control this morning. I will post a link once it is over....

**WaCoTS** · February-17-13, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

People with documented mental issues should be rejected from getting a weapon.

problem with that is, most people are not "documented insane" until AFTER theyve committed a crime like this. otherwise youre discriminating against/stigmatizing a class of people, who happen to be pretty sensitive about being labeled, not to mention now youre treading into doctor-patient-confidentiality-law ground here, which is a whole 'nother can of worms my friend. shall i lobby for a law taking away your ability to legally drive a car, just because you were prescribed xanax or prozac once? you'd probably say that i was infringing on your rights or descriminating against you.

THAT SAID however, i do know a person or two from my past who i wish didnt have the ability to own guns...

Originally Posted by firstandten

Guns like a few other things in our society should be difficult to obtain , and the penalty for its illegal usage should be extremely severe.

uh, excuse me? as far as i know, it's already pretty illegal to commit murder, especially with a gun, and the penalties ARE pretty severe. those laws are already on the books, my friend.

THEYRE NOT WORKING.

we have THOUSANDS of gun laws on the books in this country. we have new ones every year. but every year, the carnage increases, and we cant build prisons fast enough to keep all the murderers in for their whole sentences! we have to let them out on good behavior to make room for the new murderers!

laws only keep honest people honest. it's time for a different approach.

**WaCoTS** · February-17-13, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

I understand people in high crime areas wanting to own a gun to protect themselves. What I don't understand is the millions of homes in the U.S. where guns are strewn about like dirty socks. Every day someone in a brief fit of anger or with a mental problem or some kid who doesn't know any better picks up a gun and starts firing at his relatives. They are 10 times more likely to do this than shoot an intruder and yet most Americans don't seem bothered by this.

im not as concerned with defending myself from criminals as i am from our own runaway government. have you seen the hardware THEY have? it makes what the average citizen owns look like popguns. people wanna debate the intent & wording of the 2nd Amendment, but i dont recall the Constitution saying anything about a standing army with drones and guided nukes...!

ill think about giving up my guns when the governments of the world give up theirs. trust me, i would love to go back to a polite society of dueling with swords as much as the next guy, but it's not realistic. the gun was invented to give the weak the ability to stand on equal footing with the strong [[and the tyrannical). im not saying its the best invention man ever came up with, but it is what it is.

the day we can get every human to join hands and sing All You Need Is Love, i'll GLADLY melt my guns down. but it just will never happen. humans are a violent species. it has been that way since the dawn of time. when you can fix human greed and hate, lemme know.

**WaCoTS** · February-17-13, 03:15 PM

oh, one more thing.

when's the last time our country had a balanced budget, huh? in my view, the primary role of our federal gov't is to keep the books in order. we all have household budgets, and we all know how to balance them. so why can't our glorious leaders balance the national one? the only difference is a bunch of zeros...
ill bet you their personal budgets in their own homes are balanced--arent they? so why cant they figure out the one we pay them to balance?

I WONT LISTEN TO ANOTHER WORD FROM THOSE BOZOS ON GUN CONTROL, ABORTION, GAY MARRIAGE, FLAG BURNING, OR ANY OTHER SILLY NONSENSE UNTIL I SEE A BALANCED %^*&$#ING BUDGET!!

IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK!??!

**401don** · February-17-13, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by WaCoTS

im not as concerned with defending myself from criminals as i am from our own runaway government. have you seen the hardware THEY have? it makes what the average citizen owns look like popguns. people wanna debate the intent & wording of the 2nd Amendment, but i dont recall the Constitution saying anything about a standing army with drones and guided nukes...!

ill think about giving up my guns when the governments of the world give up theirs. trust me, i would love to go back to a polite society of dueling with swords as much as the next guy, but it's not realistic. the gun was invented to give the weak the ability to stand on equal footing with the strong [[and the tyrannical). im not saying its the best invention man ever came up with, but it is what it is.

the day we can get every human to join hands and sing All You Need Is Love, i'll GLADLY melt my guns down. but it just will never happen. humans are a violent species. it has been that way since the dawn of time. when you can fix human greed and hate, lemme know.

So you have guns in your house to defend yourself against your own gov't who may be planning to attack you with drones or nuclear weapons? Wow.

Also, if you think the average American can balance their household budget, guess again.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...42553238,d.b2U

**WaCoTS** · February-17-13, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

So you have guns in your house to defend yourself against your own gov't who may be planning to attack you with drones or nuclear weapons? Wow.

i wonder if the Minutemen who allowed this free country to break away from the tyranny of Britain would share your candor on this topic? you wouldnt have the freedom to post this on a message board, because you wouldnt even have a 1st Amendment.

at no point did i say that having guns in my house was to counteract the govt's nukes and drones. that's ridiculous and youre adding that in. as if the govt would use nukes to obliterate gun owners...come on man.

dont try to portray me as some "fringe conspiracy wacko" in order to discredit me, just because i complained about the fact that our gov't is out of control with spending. i am not a republican, i am not a democrat, i am not conservative or liberal. and im NOT the first person to criticize our govt for having excessive technology such as nukes. if they didnt spend all our money on military crap, we might have a balanced budget.

**Johnnny5** · February-17-13, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by WaCoTS

i wonder if the Minutemen who allowed this free country to break away from the tyranny of Britain would share your candor on this topic? you wouldnt have the freedom to post this on a message board, because you wouldnt even have a 1st Amendment.
.

I'm not 100% positive, but I think 401Don is in Canada. If so, that would mean he is still somewhat under the "tyranny of Britain".

**southen** · February-17-13, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by WaCoTS

im not as concerned with defending myself from criminals as i am from our own runaway government. have you seen the hardware THEY have? it makes what the average citizen owns look like popguns. people wanna debate the intent & wording of the 2nd Amendment, but i dont recall the Constitution saying anything about a standing army with drones and guided nukes...!

ill think about giving up my guns when the governments of the world give up theirs. trust me, i would love to go back to a polite society of dueling with swords as much as the next guy, but it's not realistic. the gun was invented to give the weak the ability to stand on equal footing with the strong [[and the tyrannical). im not saying its the best invention man ever came up with, but it is what it is.

if you don't want people to think your a bit of a crackpot you shouldn't say stuff like this.

you are right that the constitution says nothing about nukes, that's why I think the second amendment is as relevant as the third amendment today.