NYT op-ed questions Detroit's oligarch class

[iheartthed]

People like Dan Gilbert, the owner of Quicken Loans and the Cleveland Cavaliers, and Mike Ilitch, a founder of Little Caesars pizza, have been snatching up shuttered skyscrapers and prewar office buildings — since December Mr. Gilbert has bought at least five buildings and, reputedly, an entire downtown city block — as if they’re Monopoly properties.

The third revenue-generating idea, in fact, came via Mr. Gilbert’s Twitter feed. Why not, he mused, build a “world-class Epcot-like car attraction” in downtown Detroit? He bristled at indecorous comparisons to AutoWorld, Flint’s failed 1980s attempt at just such an automobile theme park, made infamous in the documentary “Roger & Me.”

Detroiters who are worried about ceding local power to Michigan’s Republican governor shouldn’t forget the ways in which power has already been ceded to an unelected oligarchy, whose members might, no matter how ostensibly well intentioned, possess questionable ideas about urban renewal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/op...dex.jsonp&_r=0

Does anyone besides residents of East Coast metropolises see fault with all of Detroit's most prime real estate being held in the hands of just a couple of people?

[gameguy56]

Does anyone besides residents of East Coast metropolises see fault with all of Detroit's most prime real estate being held in the hands of just a couple of people?

I mean, if someone else was looking to buy it maybe? The problem with Detroit is that 90% of the wealthy have decided to completely dis-invest themselves from the city. This gives the other 10% a big playground. It's not like the east coast cities where most wealthy people identify with their central city.

[Detroitnerd]

I think one of the points of the article is that economic democracy and economic diversity are what make cities work. New York has ample experience with that, and would never need [[and indeed would laugh at) some "white elephant" attraction downtown. Lots of investors and lots of stakeholders tends to mean the worst ideas [[curb-running parking shuttles, auto worlds) get left by the wayside and the city is more than the sum of its parts.

[mwilbert]

Does anyone besides residents of East Coast metropolises see fault with all of Detroit's most prime real estate being held in the hands of just a couple of people?

I see it as less of a problem than no one wanting it at all. I also think that there are some benefits to concentrated ownership--Dan Gilbert has way more interest in improving downtown than someone who owns a single building, because he can capture more of the benefits of any improvements he makes. Of course, if the improvements he wants to make are stupid or unwanted, that isn't necessarily an advantage.

It is also questionable whether there is really any prime real estate in Detroit anyway. I would say there is Detroit real estate which would be prime if and when Detroit recovers substantially, but there really isn't anything that valuable now.

[JAYCR]

Funny. A group of us has been talking about this very thing. Obviously, Gilbert has invested in the city and has led the charge re-inventing downtown and bringing life to the area. On the other hand, don't mistake his investments as philanthropy. The old adage of buy low has never been more appropriate.

[Bham1982]

An issue is that the rich often overestimate their skills in subjects outside of their core compentencies.

Gilbert thinks he knows what he's talking about re. urban revitalization, just because he's been wildly successful in other aspects of his life. Outside of moving workers downtown [[which is obvious and self-evident) his ideas strike me as stupid [[curb-running shuttle trolleys, downtown auto-world attractions, deep subsidies for otherwise uninterested retailers).

[Gistok]

An issue is that the rich often overestimate their skills in subjects outside of their core compentencies.

Gilbert thinks he knows what he's talking about re. urban revitalization, just because he's been wildly successful in other aspects of his life. Outside of moving workers downtown [[which is obvious and self-evident) his ideas strike me as stupid [[curb-running shuttle trolleys, downtown auto-world attractions, deep subsidies for otherwise uninterested retailers).

Stupid as in being a visionary... versus being a conservative non-risk taking individual? Remember Henry Ford was thought insane for offering $5 a day for workers.... look who ended up being the smart on in that scenario.

Billionaires aren't billionaires because they're stupid....

[Bham1982]

Billionaires aren't billionaires because they're stupid....

Right, but billionires have very shaky track records outside their core competencies.

Henry Ford was a bigot who received the highest possible civillian honors from the Nazis. He also established the disasterous Fordlandia, in Brazil, and was terrible to his family.

I don't see why people think Gilbert knows anything about fixing cities just because he's knows a lot about other things.

[EastsideAl]

It is also questionable whether there is really any prime real estate in Detroit anyway. I would say there is Detroit real estate which would be prime if and when Detroit recovers substantially, but there really isn't anything that valuable now.

I think this is exactly why so many of people around here are just happy that SOMEBODY with some money and clout actually wants to buy and develop property here. People in this city are acutely aware that the value of an area can rather quickly plummet to zero, and when it does it can be tremendously hard to pump any value back into it.

The thought that the central city of any major metropolitan area could be worth essentially zero is simply unthinkable to anyone on the east coast. Even in less well-off cities like Philly, Baltimore, or even Newark, CBD property is worth millions. But those of us who live in the Detroit area know all too well that much of our downtown area has had essentially no value for some time now. Despite the tone of that NYT article, the big problem was not going to be a concentration of development minded owners like Illitch or Gilbert, but ownership by bottom-feeders like Higgins, or abandoned properties falling under city ownership and becoming ever more hopeless, damaged, and burdensome.

[Gistok]

Right, but billionires have very shaky track records outside their core competencies.

Henry Ford was a bigot who received the highest possible civillian honors from the Nazis. He also established the disasterous Fordlandia, in Brazil, and was terrible to his family.

I don't see why people think Gilbert knows anything about fixing cities just because he's knows a lot about other things.

Ford's personal beliefs are a red herring in this issue... and even the very rich take risks that don't always work out... but they do take risks...

As for Gilbert's core competencies go... that's the nice thing about being a billionaire... you can hire the top talent available to advise and run things. 3 years ago Gilbert didn't know the first thing about Gambling Casinos... by this summer he will own and operate one in Detroit, Cleveland and Cincinnati respectively.

Gilbert was smart enough to hire General Motor's Matt Cullen, the man who engineered GM's move to the Renaissance Center, and the massive plan to overhaul Detroit's riverfront... and under Gilbert to facilitate the building 2 new Ohio casinos, as well as the future plans for Greektown Casino expansion into the Campus Martius area.

Say what you like about Gilbert's core competencies... but when you're the boss, and you have the smarts to hire the right people [[as William Clay Ford Jr. did with the hiring of Alan Mulally to run Ford)... I find your criticism at best... premature... Time will tell what's right and what's not... until then everything else is just conjecture.

[bailey]

Right, but billionires have very shaky track records outside their core competencies.

Henry Ford was a bigot who received the highest possible civillian honors from the Nazis. He also established the disasterous Fordlandia, in Brazil, and was terrible to his family.

I don't see why people think Gilbert knows anything about fixing cities just because he's knows a lot about other things.

+ 1 on that. Could add that the Fords have a really terrific record owning a sports franchise too.

Hopefully Gilbert does what good leaders do best, provide the vision and appoint competent lieutenants to carry it out.

[Gistok]

+ 1 on that. Could add that the fords have a really terrific record owning a sports franchise too.

Hopefully gilbert does what good leaders do best, provide the vision and appoint competent lieutenants to carry it out.

bingo!.................

[Detroitnerd]

bingo!.................

Really? The same old Detroit top-down mode gets a bingo?

What he should do is listen to what people want, listen to those who know how it's done in other cities, and copy what works. As for Gilbert's "vision," let's be realistic. This is America: His vision is one of making money.

[DetroitPlanner]

Why Old Man Potter owned most of Bedford Falls, everyone adored him!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ne13Zft9Q

[Gistok]

Really? The same old Detroit top-down mode gets a bingo?

What he should do is listen to what people want, listen to those who know how it's done in other cities, and copy what works. As for Gilbert's "vision," let's be realistic. This is America: His vision is one of making money.

What the heck are you talking about??

I gave a bingo to....

provide the vision and appoint competent lieutenants to carry it out.

[Hermod]

Right, but billionires have very shaky track records outside their core competencies.

Henry Ford was a bigot who received the highest possible civillian honors from the Nazis. He also established the disasterous Fordlandia, in Brazil, and was terrible to his family.

Henry Ford's Eagle Boat program for the Navy in World War One was also a total mess.

[beachboy]

bingo!.................

Ditto!!

We all try new things - most don't work but, like doctors, we bury our mistakes. The things that do work can make life a lot better for all concerned .. or just for a few .. that's the way life is.

So for those who think billionaires are not good urban planners, or should be censured for making mistakes like Fordlandia - here's a question: Where would Detroit be without Mr. Ilitch and Mr. Gilbert? ... or without Mr. [[Henry) Ford?

[Jason]

There's a huge opportunity and he's one of the few people with enough money to take advantage of it.

Buildings in Detroit are cheap, and he can buy a lot of them. He also had enough connections to fill them up without having to think too much about the office market. He also has enough money that he can invest in these buildings, and improve downtown as a whole. And as Detroit improves he's going to have a huge amount of control over the downtown of a major city, and he's going to make a lot of money off it. And as Detroit improves it will also attract more attention from more traditional investors and so the diversity will increase when that happens.

I think it's a win-win.

[Gannon]

I just hope Gilbert's design staff gets around to reading Gloria Vanderbuilt's design and style suggestion. Until you learn the adage that 'less is more', whether with personal fashion, interior design, or even playing music...the clutter gets in the way of any brilliance which might be lurking beneath.

Their design 'philosophy' needs a little tempering. I'm sure most of us would have fun playing the game of what architectural accessories Dan Gilbert SHOULD take off before 'leaving home'. Which of his team's very bold public displays is just too much.

I'd heard about them 'playschooling' up the lobby of One Woodward, with multiple copies of a red flowing shape meant to promote some health research...and when I finally saw them it wasn't so bad. They're not in EVERY window, and while obscure they are at least tasteful. So there is SOME hope that their design staff might mature.

So as for oligarchs, they are rich enough to foment great change. When it is positive, we cheer. Negative, or neutral but gaudy? We jeer. Either way, in a corporate capitalist society, it takes a difficult and unlikely groundswell of grass-roots effort to create any turnaround which those with means can effect with a decision and the choice of a good team. But even the best teams can only make the decisions and take actions warranted worthy by their master, so they'll always be saddled by that person's shortcomings...as well as bolstered by their gifts and talents.

Cheers

[Huggybear]

1. It's not capitalist society - it's every society. Even Marx agrees that the group that controls the capital runs the table. In its confrontations with business Detroit City Council has, historically, been the maidservant or business - or as now - pursued the illusion that it could be powerful by obstructing several attempts to bring in new money [[and I'm not talking about the absurdist Belle Isle millionaires' paradise).

2. Although I agree with the sentiment that you should not junk up existing designs, many of these designs people worship in Detroit were cluttered by design. I can't be the only person who wonders whether the interior of the Fisher Building is teetering on a razor's edge between 1920s beauty and the kitsch that results from having an unlimited budget [[and, I suspect, owners with nouveau-riche taste). Guess we'll never know, but we can always wonder.

3. I wonder sometimes if people live in a world where there is a phantom third option, which is the benevolent billionaire with taste who wants to invest in downtrodden places. You can only pick two. This doesn't bode well for people whose single interest is historic preservation, but your choices in alignment are really between money and a crumbling status quo. Here, it's not like Ilitch and Gilbert are mowing down houses, blocking busy streets, diverting people into another country, or building a bridge to nowehere.

HB

I just hope Gilbert's design staff gets around to reading Gloria Vanderbuilt's design and style suggestion. Until you learn the adage that 'less is more', whether with personal fashion, interior design, or even playing music...the clutter gets in the way of any brilliance which might be lurking beneath.

Their design 'philosophy' needs a little tempering. I'm sure most of us would have fun playing the game of what architectural accessories Dan Gilbert SHOULD take off before 'leaving home'. Which of his team's very bold public displays is just too much.

I'd heard about them 'playschooling' up the lobby of One Woodward, with multiple copies of a red flowing shape meant to promote some health research...and when I finally saw them it wasn't so bad. They're not in EVERY window, and while obscure they are at least tasteful. So there is SOME hope that their design staff might mature.

So as for oligarchs, they are rich enough to foment great change. When it is positive, we cheer. Negative, or neutral but gaudy? We jeer. Either way, in a corporate capitalist society, it takes a difficult and unlikely groundswell of grass-roots effort to create any turnaround which those with means can effect with a decision and the choice of a good team. But even the best teams can only make the decisions and take actions warranted worthy by their master, so they'll always be saddled by that person's shortcomings...as well as bolstered by their gifts and talents.

Cheers

[canuck]

If it werent for Gilbert's stepping in, Detroit would probably be gloomier and provide less enthusiasm as it does now. So maybe one oligarch of his stamp is better than a bunch of them without ideas however cockamamie they be. I mean there is a lot more to look forward to since he started on his buying spree and this hope of rebuilding the core and improving retail, city finances etc...


When I ived in Dublin, Ireland in the mid eighties, not a whole lot of development was happening. Young people, "the educated ones" fled for greener pastures in Germany, England, the US, Australia, Canada to the tune of fifty thousand a year. In the nineties they had the "Celtic Tiger" which today has turned into a nightmare. But for a while the country was on the receiving end of high migration of folks from eastern Europe, Africa, Asia and everywhere else. You even have a small polish enclave of specialty shops in Dublin where once you could only get kidney pies and mashed peas kind of thing. The country became pretty cosmopolitan in ten years, and property values skyrocketed because of a very clever engineering by the wizards in the ministry of finance but it all came to an abrupt end. You have to be on the lookout for signs that too much of a good thing can harden the arteries I guess.

Here in Canada the value of real estate is only beginning to plateau and is relatively high to US property, something like twice the value of an average house in the US, I think. It is becoming hard for entry level buyers to afford a first home. The condo building frenzy is unchecked though, with new stuff getting built at record levels. Hard to plumb. Shit is bound to hit the impeller.

I think Gilbert will help rather than hinder the city's progress but only if others like him are ready to bet on its future. I also think Detroit is in better shape than the gleaming new Moscow, Russia and its rule by oligarchs, a pretty ruthless mafia and government. Detroit can draw on better resources in the long run than most cities in the world. I just hope that the Ilitches, Karmanos and others from outside the pale will follow "G's" lead, because the deep pockets have to reinvest in the city.

[Gannon]

I can't be the only person who wonders whether the interior of the Fisher Building is teetering on a razor's edge between 1920s beauty and the kitsch that results from having an unlimited budget [[and, I suspect, owners with nouveau-riche taste). Guess we'll never know, but we can always wonder.

Good point. Kitch and excess exist in every genre and period, that would be a fun study...gauge the deviance from the average due to ego. You are absolutely right, though, and I'd not noticed it the same way before.

I mean, overload is why the Guardian is so amazing, too. Hell, any skyscraper. And perhaps, as well, the first two edifices I ever entered with awe, Holy Redeemer and St. Alphonsus churches...and any other buildings built to impress God, and/or let everyone else know the one worshipped there is impressive. Heck, it caused a building-competition in places with multi-theism like Greece...and drives like Altar Dr. in Dearborn Heights. So yeah, I guess if it weren't for ego, even collectively, we might never know any of the Seven Wonders of the World even, either.

You've given me more data to wrestle with regarding positive and negative uses and effects of it. Ego fascinates me, since it is one of the things all mystical traditions seek to destroy which is revered by corporate capitalism, entertainment, and even science. Celebrity rules, it seems. At least it gets those ruled to pay attention.

Even the Oligarchs hire 'em for their apparent power over others.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

The New York Times is a sick institution. First, there is no more elitist a group than NYT staff, management, and readers. The 11 years I lived in Brooklyn, my neighborhood bodega didn't even carry the Times. Why? Because it is generally read by rich white liberals in Manhattan. Second, how many in-depth reports have they done on municipal corruption and mismanagement, and how that is destroying our cities? Lamenting unelected oligarchs in Detroit is also absurd because, while we hold elections, we do not really have government in the city. Comically minimalist emergency services, negligible schools, and a small amount of wealth transferring do not for governing make.

[j to the jeremy]

Does anyone besides residents of East Coast metropolises see fault with all of Detroit's most prime real estate being held in the hands of just a couple of people?

I do, absolutely. How anyone could think otherwise is the question.

For a good example of why this power concentration is bad, you can look at the complete bungling of the M1 rail project by this oligarchy. M1 will fail without a regional system because they would rather have a slow, dangerous curbside employee shuttle than true center running light rail [[ya'know, like the original streetcars!) . The feds literally had to beg M1 to allow it to be extendable past grand blvd.

You could also point to the poor development practices of Ilitch, who, perhaps in a city with stronger gov't and more downtown investors, would not have been allowed to stockpile parking lots behind the Fox or put street parking fronting Woodward at Comerica Park.

Also, the utter amount of Dan Gilbert-fellating that goes on in our region is hilarious. He's making money. He's buying properties because they are so cheap he'd be dumb not to. Just because he got Moosejaw to open doesn't mean he wants a working bus system, or a healthy East Side, or a functioning regional lighting authority. In fact, he probably really wants the rest of the city to continue its decline so he can get more cheap office space and trendy lofs downtown. Downtown can be a glistening beacon of tourism and suburban style shopping and the city would have to do nothing. This would NOT be a net gain for MOST Detroit residents.


There are many citizens in Detroit who do have a problem with the oligarchy- many of them live in the area where Hantz farms will be. Many more of them are sick of their tax dollars buying stadiums and office space when the streetlights are out.


I'm out, I can't really stand this site anymore but it was nice to be back for a day.

[j to the jeremy]

Right, but billionires have very shaky track records outside their core competencies.

Henry Ford was a bigot who received the highest possible civillian honors from the Nazis. He also established the disasterous Fordlandia, in Brazil, and was terrible to his family.

I don't see why people think Gilbert knows anything about fixing cities just because he's knows a lot about other things.

Never thought i'd agree with Bham on here !