Would Detroit benefit from the formation of militias?

[Tig3rzhark]

Everyone knows that Detroit has a crime problem. This is the one thing that is keeping people from moving here.

The city can ill afford to keep the cops that they have left on their payroll.

I'm suggesting that those that have already formed Neighborhood Watches be allowed to carry arms. The criminal element tends to be packed with weapons and have more control on the neighborhoods than the police do, and that needs to change.

I would like to ask if anyone would consider the formation of militias to patrol the neighborhoods in cooperation with the police as a solution to the city's crime problems. With the lack of cops currently on the police force, the citizenry of Detroit must decide to take their communities back from the criminal elements.

[eno]

I can only imagine the daily shootouts that would occur for contested turf between rival crack houses and citizen militias when neighborhood watch groups patrol their streets.

As the young man who walked thru downtown Birmingham with a rifle slung across his shoulder, don't the citizens of Detroit have the same rights to carry weapons as he does?

[trotwood]

"Would Detroit benefit from the formation of militias?"


^^^^^^^^^^No! I'm not certain what the answer to this problem is but I'm sure militia's aren't.

[ArmDetroit]

"Would Detroit benefit from the formation of militias?"

Sure...... because the innocent bystanders were part of the problem. [[note the sarcasm)

While this is a ridiculous idea, at least it's an idea, which is more than the city leaders have done.

[dmike76]

I agree with trotwood. Not a good solution. What I can't figure out is why the Michigan State Police don't have a larger presence in there? I'm not educated on what it takes in terms of juris diction, but boosting DPD with MSP would be huge in my opinion.

[ArmDetroit]

What I can't figure out is why the Michigan State Police don't have a larger presence in there? I'm not educated on what it takes in terms of juris diction, but boosting DPD with MSP would be huge in my opinion.

From the chamber of city council - "White whores won't save us"

Do the state police qualify as "white whores"? If so I doubt some Detroiters would want them paroling the neighborhoods, even if it would help deter crime.

[canuck]

From the chamber of city council - "White whores won't save us"

Do the state police qualify as "white whores"? If so I doubt some Detroiters would want them paroling the neighborhoods, even if it would help deter crime.

Funny, whole hoods are now on parole.

[Danny]

Detroit benefit with a formation of community policing and National Guards in every ghetto hood. This would turn Detroit from a Beirut-Baghdad brawl into a safe and secure city.

[Honky Tonk]

What I can't figure out is why the Michigan State Police don't have a larger presence in there?

Please see "City Council\Consent Agreement Meetings". Another good source is "City Council\Belle Isle\State Park Meetings".

[Crumbled_pavement]

With the lack of cops currently on the police force, the citizenry of Detroit must decide to take their communities back from the criminal elements.

Or do like past generations of Detroiters and just move.

[Detroitnerd]

... I doubt some Detroiters would want them paroling the neighborhoods, even if it would help deter crime.

When you bring in outside law enforcement, especially in a region like this, chances are the officers will not understand the people they're policing, and some of them will even see them as second-class citizens they can run roughshod over. Conversely and because of that, citizens won't trust the police or communicate with them. And most people in law enforcement understand that, and that's likely a major factor in why staties don't patrol Detroit.

Or look at it the other way. Would the residents of, say, Howell, like to have the Detroit Police Department patrolling their streets? How effective would that be?

[trotwood]

What I can't figure out is why the Michigan State Police don't have a larger presence in there? I'm not educated on what it takes in terms of juris diction, but boosting DPD with MSP would be huge in my opinion.

This has baffled me too.

[ArmDetroit]

When you bring in outside law enforcement, especially in a region like this, chances are the officers will not understand the people they're policing, and some of them will even see them as second-class citizens they can run roughshod over. Conversely and because of that, citizens won't trust the police or communicate with them. And most people in law enforcement understand that, and that's likely a major factor in why staties don't patrol Detroit.

Or look at it the other way. Would the residents of, say, Howell, like to have the Detroit Police Department patrolling their streets? How effective would that be?

It seems to me that the lack of trust the citizens feel toward police has been going on since at least the 50's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't fear/lack of trust towards the police what sparked the 67' riots? Isn't that same fear/lack of trust still going on to this day with the ghetto policy of the streets "no snitchin"?

Your idea is nice and considerate to the feelings of the same citizens that are killing each other in mass numbers. Who cares if they like it or not. Something needs to be done and I'm sure the law abiding, tax paying citizens, such as myself. would welcome a stronger MSP presence around town.

Detroit officers patrolling Howell would be ridiculous, you're right. Although you seem to be forgetting that the City of Detroit is in the State of Michigan.

[Detroitnerd]

It seems to me that the lack of trust the citizens feel toward police has been going on since at least the 50's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't fear/lack of trust towards the police what sparked the 67' riots? Isn't that same fear/lack of trust still going on to this day with the ghetto policy of the streets "no snitchin"?

Well, not really. First of all, you have to understand that, right up until the mid-1970s, the Detroit police force was an overwhelmingly white organization with extremely racist views. One local academic called the DPD "an institution of white power." Think of what that meant to blacks in Detroit. You couldn't get a fair shake, so why would you trust the police? As for 1967, white police went charging into an after-hours party celebrating the return of two Vietnam veterans. So you have these cops, who have earned all the goodwill of the Ku Klux Klan, charging into a party for returning heroes, and trying to arrest all 82 people.

Would police have gone charging into an Elks club in Dearborn at 4 a.m. and demanded to arrest everybody there celebrating the return of Vietnam vets?

See, this is some of the history that gets conveniently forgotten when we resort to mythology instead of actual history to describe the past and inform our politics.

Who cares if they like it or not. Something needs to be done and I'm sure the law abiding, tax paying citizens, such as myself. would welcome a stronger MSP presence around town.

Oh, there's a little matter called the Constitution and democracy. I know it's really easy to propose suspending those things for other people, people who maybe don't have as much economic power as folks like you, but what if the shoe were on the other foot? Ben Franklin himself once said that he who would trade liberty for some temporary security deserves neither. So, I'd say you are definitely outside the mainstream of democratic American thought to propose that trade for others.

[Shollin]

The police raiding an after hours illegal party was justice enough to go on a rampage killing and burning the city.

[ArmDetroit]

Nerd, you seem to have forgotten about the years of racial oppression that came before the blind pig raid, which essentially was the straw that broke the camels back sparking the riot. Never mind you didn't forget about it, as you mentioned it in the first few sentences of your last post. You just conveniently separated the two as if it had nothing to do with the riot. According to your logic every time the police do something the people don't like the people will riot.

And since when is it unconstitutional for the state police to patrol Detroit? So taxation without representation is OK as long as you live in Detroit?

[Detroitnerd]

Nerd, you seem to have forgotten about the years of racial oppression that came before the blind pig raid, which essentially was the straw that broke the camels back sparking the riot. Never mind you didn't forget about it, as you mentioned it in the first few sentences of your last post. You just conveniently separated the two as if it had nothing to do with the riot. According to your logic every time the police do something the people don't like the people will riot.

No, I think I was pretty clearly discussing the history and I don't see how what I wrote could be misconstrued as you say.

And since when is it unconstitutional for the state police to patrol Detroit? So taxation without representation is OK as long as you live in Detroit?

I was responding to your statement: "Who cares if they like it or not?" According to my understanding of democracy, the government needs the approval of the people to do something, so, yes, it does matter whether they "like it" or not.

[TexasT]

I was responding to your statement: "Who cares if they like it or not?" According to my understanding of democracy, the government needs the approval of the people to do something, so, yes, it does matter whether they "like it" or not.

That doesn't necessarily make it unconstitutional. I'd have to take a look at Detroit's charter from the state but considering Detroit is a part of the state, I can't imagine it's illegal to send in state police. This isn't like state vs federal where states have constitutionally-protected rights and are legally separate institutions. This is more akin to your parents letting you have a room in their house, and you getting upset because they respond when you trash it. It's "yours" but it's really theirs. Hell, legally, I'm pretty sure the state could revoke Detroit's charter and dissolve it if they wanted to.

[ArmDetroit]

O.K. I looked back at my post and I used the wrong words in describing the start of the riot. All I was trying to say is that the disdain for the police contributed to the start of the riot. People in Detroit have not trusted the DPD in a very long time, so what would be different if the MSP were brought in to assist?

Also, I doubt the government has the approval of the people to do half the things they do... i.e. drone strikes, TSA searches on children, ect..

The state police already have a presence in Detroit, we're simply wondering if that can be increased at all. It's not a fucking matter of stripping people of their rights so give up the whole unconstitutional rhetoric since most people pay state taxes that fund the MSP.

[GUSHI]

The problem is that they see the state police as a organization run by master synder

[Tig3rzhark]

Or do like past generations of Detroiters and just move.

Moving away from Detroit doesn't change the problem. Especially for those that remain here. The high crime would spread outward should the trend continue without a response.

[Tig3rzhark]

We need more officers, but the city can't afford to pay for more. The community needs to be more active in policing their neighborhoods. Even if the Michigan State Police and the Wayne County Sheriff's office took more of a presence in the policing of Detroit, it would not be enough to cover all of the city of Detroit.

Criminals tend to only respond to a greater means of force. The citizens of Detroit as well as the Police Forces that have jurisdictional presence need to bring the force needed to bring order to the neighborhoods. The "No Snitching" attitude taken to crimes here as well in any urban community should not be tolerated and to continue to tolerate it, is to willing align themselves with the very people that threaten their lives.

[southen]

george zimmerman... that's all.

[Tig3rzhark]

george zimmerman... that's all.

That's not enough to discard the proposal entirely. Here in Detroit, the residents are majority Black with a growing Latino and Arab population.

The issue here isn't ethnicity. It is crime. When arson, assaults, murder, and other varieties of crime occur, people tend to take the mentality:

"As long as I'm not the victim, it's not my problem."

Here in Detroit, Blacks have majority. So of course the majority of the crimes are being committed by Blacks, to everyone else in Detroit.

This city is Majority Black ruled and represented, the citizens still here are low to middle class with a few neighborhoods above middle class.

But there are not enough cops in the neighborhoods:

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/10/06/enter-at-your-own-risk-police-union-says-war-like-detroit-is-unsafe-for-visitors/

This is not acceptable. And criminals don't respond well to non-violent marches.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Moving away from Detroit doesn't change the problem. Especially for those that remain here. The high crime would spread outward should the trend continue without a response.

It's the solution that has been employed for decades. I highly recommend it to current Detroiters.