Would Detroit Benefit from Stop and Frisk?

**Wesley Mouch** · January-29-13, 12:06 PM

Reading this article, I couldn't help but wonder what residents of Detroit and/or this forum would say about a program that's receiving great reviews from residents and saving countless lives in the Big Apple by providing disadvantages residents with safe homes.

Ligon v. New York challenged a decades-long program that authorizes New York police officers to patrol private buildings for trespassers and other lawbreakers. The Trespass Affidavit Program [[TAP) tries to give low-income tenants in high-crime areas the same protection against intruders that wealthy residents of doorman-guarded buildings enjoy.

http://www.city-journal.org/2013/23_1_war-on-crime.html

**brizee** · January-29-13, 12:36 PM

Is every white boy and becky in the burbs gonna be held up, harrassed and have their rights violated?

No?

Then fuck anybody that even suggests puttting this garbage in place.

This is stop and frisk.

That's what you're willing to unleash on me, my brother and in ten years my nephew so you can have the illusion of safety?

**Detroitnerd** · January-29-13, 12:39 PM

No...........

**iheartthed** · January-29-13, 12:53 PM

Besides the obvious civil liberties issues... You couldn't even implement that in Detroit since there is virtually no public transit.

**EastsideAl** · January-29-13, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

a program that's receiving great reviews

Great reviews from whom? I assure you that there's a very large percentage of the local population in NYC that isn't so happy with the NYPD's program of not-so-random harassment without probable cause.

**gazhekwe** · January-29-13, 01:41 PM

Not a good idea at all. We already have too much trouble with DWB and WWB. Don't need any more excuses to bug people Doing things while Black.

Shollin · January-29-13, 01:47 PM

New York is one of the safest large cities in the country. Detroit is one of the most dangerous cities in the world among developed nations. of course Detroit wouldn't benefit from what New York does.

**kenp** · January-29-13, 01:47 PM

No. America, the land of the free

**Meddle** · January-29-13, 01:58 PM

In case you haven't been paying attention, the City's broke. It can't pay the daily bills and you want them to run up tens of millions of dollars in civil fines and penalties?

**mwilbert** · January-29-13, 02:12 PM

I doubt this would be the best way to improve public safety in Detroit, not to mention that there is no way the the DPD has the manpower to do it.

If they did have the time to do that, they might consider trying to execute some of the thousands of warrants they have outstanding.

**detroitsgwenivere** · January-29-13, 02:32 PM

The police are given free reign to do whatever the f*** they want around here. What some fail to realize is that they choose not to stop every fool they see on the street. Why? Because we have half the police we should, this is the "diirty D", not the "Big Apple", and our officers want to live to see the end of their shift.

**AUSSIE** · January-29-13, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

The police are given free reign to do whatever the f*** they want around here. What some fail to realize is that they choose not to stop every fool they see on the street. Why? Because we have half the police we should, this is the "diirty D", not the "Big Apple", and our officers want to live to see the end of their shift.

That's the first job of a police officer, make in home after your shift

Anyway, what a sad place BigD must be!

Whats the current population doing, still moving away, still going down and down spiral?

Cheers

**Wesley Mouch** · January-29-13, 04:29 PM

Disappointing.

Thought maybe I'd get 50/50. Sad that most posters can't see past their hatred of the police to see the real pain of life in the ghetto.

I have been 'stopped and frisked' by DPD, and I didn't like it. But I think we owe good policing to all residents.

Aussie -- the core areas are thriving. After years of underinvestment and interest, the energy and excitement for the urban core is amazing.

The bulk of the peripheral neighborhoods are where the inefficiencies previously covered up by revenues are taking their toll. I worry about the vast majority of the city.

Overall, things are better in Detroit than what you hear. But there remain massive problems to be addressed.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-29-13, 04:34 PM

Disappointing.

Thought maybe I'd get 50/50. Sad that most posters can't see past their hatred of the police to see the real pain of life in the ghetto.

I have been 'stopped and frisked' by DPD, and I didn't like it. But I think we owe good policing to all residents.

Residents of NYC give Chief Kelly at 75% approval rating, while the program of frisking loiterers exhibiting behavior typical of drug dealers seems like about 50/50 in NYC. I couldn't find many good surveys about what the public in high-crime areas think. What the intelligencia think doesn't matter.

Aussie -- the core areas are thriving. After years of underinvestment and interest, the energy and excitement for the urban core is amazing.

The bulk of the peripheral neighborhoods are where the inefficiencies previously covered up by revenues are taking their toll. I worry about the vast majority of the city.

Overall, things are better in Detroit than what you hear. But there remain massive problems to be addressed.

**4V4DMD** · January-29-13, 04:35 PM

Not in America. Probable cause is needed for search and seizure. I'm adamantly against this loss of civil liberties. We need a Police force that is on its toes instead of on its heels. DPD needs the morale of Wayne State PD.

**Detroitnerd** · January-29-13, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Disappointing. Thought maybe I'd get 50/50. Sad that most posters can't see past their hatred of the police to see the real pain of life in the ghetto.

Wow, man. You're really one messed-up dude. I feel sorry for you.

**wolverine** · January-29-13, 08:24 PM

It wouldn't for the following reasons:

1. Not effective use of limited resources. Better to improve community relations than make them hostile. I'd rather see fast and reliable response and effective patrolling to deter crime and crowd loitering. Even if the police do manage to reasonably catch someone with possession of stolen property, unregistered gun, etc. They'll be released back in no time.

2. Not enough apartment buildings. At least the original intent of the program...as my understanding is building owners would allow police to be big brother in common areas of apartment buildings. Even as stated in my own lease...when one steps out of their apartment, the hallways are pretty much under the same privacy rights as a public street. The building has the right to tape you the moment you leave your door to the elevator to the exit. If they think you're up to no good, they can report you and send the tape to the police. In a city full of single family homes, and a small share of dispersed apartment buildings...it's hardly worth the effort. Owners should hire private security, not utilize public safety.

3. Opportunities for Abuse. There's good cops and dirty cops. I'm not denying there are some acceptable instances for stop and frisk. But there's really no way to prevent abuse of the system. Relating back to point 1, there's risks of distrust if a clean and innocent person gets thrust against a fence violently and searched and only finds...nothing. There's also the problem of targeted demographics. But for the record, random stops and even searches have occurred to people of all races and incomes in the city of Detroit. But we can agree to some people more than others.

**Dexlin** · January-30-13, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Wow, man. You're really one messed-up dude. I feel sorry for you.

I know, right? Let's all say a silent prayer for Wesley.

When you go fishing, don't bitch about what you catch. Just saying...

**corktownyuppie** · January-30-13, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

I know, right? Let's all say a silent prayer for Wesley.

When you go fishing, don't bitch about what you catch. Just saying...

I don't agree with Wesley's proposal. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Detroit and Detroiters have been doing plenty of fishing ourselves for the last few decades.

I'm not really thrilled with the fish we've been catching.

**iheartthed** · January-30-13, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

I'm not denying there are some acceptable instances for stop and frisk. But there's really no way to prevent abuse of the system. Relating back to point 1, there's risks of distrust if a clean and innocent person gets thrust against a fence violently and searched and only finds...nothing.

I think you might be misunderstanding exactly what stop and frisk entails. Stop and frisk is an authority bestowed upon police to perform legal stops and searches of persons without reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed. Police everywhere already have authority to stop and search a person who is believed to be committing a crime. It's a flawed policy that is designed to be intrusive and excessive.

I have had several friends stopped on occasion under stop and frisk, none of them were criminals and all were college educated black males.

**iheartthed** · January-30-13, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

I know, right? Let's all say a silent prayer for Wesley.

When you go fishing, don't bitch about what you catch. Just saying...

What's amazing is that the same people who ask silly ass questions like "should Detroit have stop and frisk?" will turn around and wonder why people like Kwame Kilpatrick and Joanna Watson -- people who are basically elected by how vividly they can express their distrust of outsiders -- resonate with Detroit voters.

**Pickford-Bentler** · January-30-13, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

What's amazing is that the same people who ask silly ass questions like "should Detroit have stop and frisk?" will turn around and wonder why people like Kwame Kilpatrick and Joanna Watson -- people who are basically elected by how vividly they can express their distrust of outsiders -- resonate with Detroit voters.

It is an example of Newton's first law being applied to humanity. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

**kenp** · January-30-13, 10:53 AM

Remember when they wanted to do the check lanes years ago. We got rid of that quick. What is this Nazi Germany. Many states have this and its BS.

**brizee** · January-30-13, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Wow, man. You're really one messed-up dude. I feel sorry for you.

It's amazing some of the garbage always offered upon black populations and communities in this country.

Stop frisk and harass with no suspicion of crime.

Military patrols treating the citizens of a city like foreign combatants.

Restrictive curfews.

All bullshit security theater that doesn't even work.

And yet if you even whisper about introducing measures that might stem the proliferation of firearms in this country, people start hemming and hawing and getting incredulous.

The rights of manufacturers and sellers of deadly weapons are more respected than certain human beings in the eyes of a significant portion of this country.

And people are supposed to be civil and polite when engaging this nonsense?

**WaCoTS** · January-30-13, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I have been 'stopped and frisked' by DPD, and I didn't like it. But I think we owe good policing to all residents.

stop and frisk is NOT 'good policing'. its NAZI GESTAPO BULLSHIT, and its the opposite of what america's supposed to be about.

if you think NY'ers are in favor of it, guess again. i know a few and i keep up on some of their politics, and the general consensus is "FUCK THIS."

ive seen a lot of unbelievable crap on this forum before, but this takes the cake.

on the other hand...

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

The police are given free reign to do whatever the f*** they want around here.

that is correct.
i doubt this Wesley Mouch guy has had a real encounter with DPD, or for that matter, Highland Park PD, who are notorious for roughing up whoever they feel like.

once you or your friends get worked over by the fists and boots of the gang in blue for "probable cause," you might just change your tune on this, so until then dont fucking come to me talkin about "stop and frisk" shit being a "good idea"