Latest Article on a Possible New Hockey Arena by Detroit News [[1/29/2013)

**emu steve** · January-29-13, 06:18 AM

Beside being 'just another article' on a proposed hockey arena this article seems pretty conclusive as to the location.

That, in itself, is news and good news.

A large arena/commercial development with access to the Sibley/Woodward M-1 rail stop is as good as it gets.

The only other 'wish list' might be for some day that the Detroit Pistons return to Detroit...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130129/BIZ/301290329/Land-deals-suggest-new-Red-Wings-arena-may-land-north-Fox-Theatre?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

**emu steve** · January-29-13, 06:23 AM

Might add that things seem to be 'coming together' for 2015 to be the greatest year in Detroit's recent history.

It should be the date the following are mostly complete or complete: Cobo Hall, M-1 rail, and a new hockey arena [[plus whatever else Dan Gilbert has in mind).

Those are three big, big pluses and momentum builders for Detroit at a time in which the Michigan economy is also coming back.

**Honky Tonk** · January-29-13, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Might add that things seem to be 'coming together' for 2015 to be the greatest year in Detroit's recent history.

It should be the date the following are mostly complete or complete: Cobo Hall, M-1 rail, and a new hockey arena [[plus whatever else Dan Gilbert has in mind).

Those are three big, big pluses and momentum builders for Detroit at a time in which the Michigan economy is also coming back.

Yes, a great year. The poor Ilitch's will start receiving $13 million a year of COD tax money. Can't wait. I hope the City fathers raise the COD tax rates like they've been hinting around doing. By the way, has the issue with the back taxes owed and revenue from televising the Joe Louis games been settled? Oh well, as long as little Mikey doesn't have to do without. Now where is that cop car? Any day now.......

**emu steve** · January-29-13, 09:01 AM

Now that we seem to know where the arena would go [[by looking at the image from the Detroit News) I wonder where the parking will be?

Needless to say, thousands of parking spaces used for events will be replaced by the arena development.

Will a few garages be built around the arena?

Will parking be behind the Fox?

I thought maybe a parking garage at Woodward/Temple in that area where apparently Ilitich owns land but won't need for the arena. But, wouldn't it be better to have parking which is 1). Closer to the Woodward/Sibley M-1 rail station and 2). Closer to Comerica Park?

**Eber Brock Ward** · January-29-13, 09:24 AM

No garages on woodward. Have them off to the side.

Also, the effective parking will be MUCH greater with M-1 in effect at that time. One will be able to park anywhere from New Center on down and head to the arena.

**DetroitPlanner** · January-29-13, 09:29 AM

Parking is not a problem. Use the same parking for baseball and football. No need to duplicate what is already available. Right now there are days when you have two events going on at Ford and Comerica and you hardly hear of any complaints. The new stadium will seat less than either and the probability of having it and a baseball or football game happening simultaneously is very low.

By the time this gets built the area will be serviced by both M-1 [[direct connection) and the DPM [[3 block walk). As a kid dad never had an issue parking up Grand River and taking us down to the Olympia by bus. I suspect others will do the same.

**bailey** · January-29-13, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Needless to say, thousands of parking spaces used for events will be replaced by the arena development.

Will a few garages be built around the arena?

Will parking be behind the Fox?

I'd imagine what Olypmia has purchased and has been left standing behind the fox, and across I75 or within walking distance of the new area, will not be rehabbed, but be demolished and become surface parking.

If history is our guide.

**emu steve** · January-29-13, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

I'd imagine what Olypmia has purchased and has been left standing behind the fox, and across I75 or within walking distance of the new area, will not be rehabbed, but be demolished and become surface parking.

If history is our guide.

that WOULD have been my thought but, I'd think the Ilitch would like to put up a garage or two which can be utilized by the arena, Comerica, etc. AND serve as a parking spot for those who want to go downtown to work.

Also remember, Ilitch might be thinking:

There are folks who work downtown who attend hockey or baseball games.

For them park near a Woodward/Sibley garage and then M-1 to downtown and reverse after work [[before the game).

Also, and I think this is important:

Iltich would like fans parking behind the Fox and then pass by Hockeytown for food and drink before going to the arena.

Put the parking north of the Fisher and folks will not walk in the direction OPPOSITE the arena to eat and drink.

**1953** · January-29-13, 10:37 AM

I agree with Bailey that the Ilitch M.O. would suggest extensive demolition of buildings, followed by a footprint of surface lots around the stadium.

I hope, instead, that he decides to keep the towers [[Harbor Light, etc.) on Park, and to build garages instead of surface lots.

Also, I'd like to see as little disruption of the street grid there as possible, with some initiative to include multiple uses on the surrounding blocks.

1953

**bailey** · January-29-13, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by 1953

I agree with Bailey that the Ilitch M.O. would suggest extensive demolition of buildings, followed by a footprint of surface lots around the stadium.

I hope, instead, that he decides to keep the towers [[Harbor Light, etc.) on Park, and to build garages instead of surface lots.

Also, I'd like to see as little disruption of the street grid there as possible, with some initiative to include multiple uses on the surrounding blocks.

1953

Wouldn't it be nice if Olympia went against type and did the better thing....even though it would be less profitable?

Not holding my breath. Surface lots are cheap.... garages are expensive. And the DEGC would probably give him incentives to demo buildings.

**emu steve** · January-29-13, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Wouldn't it be nice if Olympia went against type and did the better thing....even though it would be less profitable?

Not holding my breath. Surface lots are cheap.... garages are expensive. And the DEGC would probably give him incentives to demo buildings.

But would downtown CBD workers park there car out somewhere out by Park or Cass and then take M-1 rail to downtown? I doubt it.

OR would they be more likely to use a parking garage located on Woodward say a block or two away from the Woodward/Sibley M-1 stop? [[as close to the arena as it is possible to build).

I assume folks would love to drive down [[Southbound) Woodward to Woodward/Sibley. Park. and then hope a M-1 downtown to get to work, but it has to be very well thought out or it won't be utilized to the degree possible.

This concept [[drive to a parking lot and then mass transit to the destination) is very popular in the Washington, D.C. area.

Folks drive to metro lots in the suburbs and take the subway from there to D.C. CBD.

**detroitsgwenivere** · January-29-13, 02:50 PM

I wonder if the state is considering park and ride at the fairgrounds, allowing potential stadium goers to take the rail downtown? Maybe someone could build a parking structure there.

**bailey** · January-29-13, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

I wonder if the state is considering park and ride at the fairgrounds, allowing potential stadium goers to take the rail downtown? Maybe someone could build a parking structure there.

That is a bit of the cart before the horse. M-1 is only going to New Center.

M-1 RAIL is a proposed 3.3-mile light rail/streetcar circulator that will strengthen the backbone of the Detroit region by connecting downtown Detroit to the New Center district along the region’s most dynamic corridor, Woodward Avenue

that is if it ever gets built in the first place. Of course there is the claim it is "expandable" and might go further....but if you believe that will happen anytime in anything approaching the short term, I have some riverfront property in Hamtramck to sell you.

**detroitsgwenivere** · January-29-13, 03:22 PM

^^Yeah I know. But up in Lansing the M-1 conversation isn't stopping at New Center, there is every intention of accomodating it's extention past 8 mile. And I don't see this studium being completed any faster than the M-1 either.

I'm throwing ideas out there, just like everyone else on this forum does.

**bailey** · January-29-13, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

^^Yeah I know. But up in Lansing the M-1 conversation isn't stopping at New Center, there is every intention of accomodating it's extention past 8 mile. And I don't see this studium being completed any faster than the M-1 either.

I'm throwing ideas out there, just like everyone else on this forum does.

I get it. Considering the issues with getting the tiniest portion of the M-1 downtown trolley off the ground, my feeling is that planning for anything past the barest of minimums is futile.

**downtownguy** · January-29-13, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

^^Yeah I know. But up in Lansing the M-1 conversation isn't stopping at New Center, there is every intention of accomodating it's extention past 8 mile. And I don't see this studium being completed any faster than the M-1 either.

I'm throwing ideas out there, just like everyone else on this forum does.

Just where in Lansing is this conversation occurring? How about some details or sources?

**DetroitPlanner** · January-29-13, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

Just where in Lansing is this conversation occurring? How about some details or sources?

Its not in Lansing. The feds gave SEMCOG a grant to study improved transit along the Woodward Corridor.
http://www.woodwardanalysis.com/

**downtownguy** · January-29-13, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Beside being 'just another article' on a proposed hockey arena this article seems pretty conclusive as to the location.

That, in itself, is news and good news.

A large arena/commercial development with access to the Sibley/Woodward M-1 rail stop is as good as it gets.

The only other 'wish list' might be for some day that the Detroit Pistons return to Detroit...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130129/BIZ/301290329/Land-deals-suggest-new-Red-Wings-arena-may-land-north-Fox-Theatre?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Conclusive? Really? It just seems like another speculative article to me. And in my speculative musings, I'm still thinking Ilitch may be behind the destruction of the Charlevoix Apartments, leading to further destruction of the Park Avenue Building which would give him an open area on Grand Circus Park to mirror his Comerica Park vista to the east.

But stranger things are known to happen and this from the article is an example of that which scares me:

House Speaker Pro Tem John Walsh, R-Livonia, who sponsored legislation that would make the Ilitch organization — whose businesses include the Red Wings, Detroit Tigers, Fox Theatre and Little Caesars Pizza — eligible for $13 million a year in Detroit tax money, said Monday that Ilitch representatives indicated they are looking to Wall Street for financing and labor unions to invest in the project to secure some of the construction work.
The taxpayer-supported Michigan Strategic Fund also may provide state taxpayer incentives for the project if Red Wings owner Mike Ilitch applied, Walsh said.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2JQMjRpyG

Almost makes Matty seem like a charitable soul, doesn't it? I'm glad to see they think the unions will support this, as Ilitch will no-doubt unionize all those minimum wage - pimply faced kids working the counter in all his stores....

ArmDetroit · January-30-13, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

Almost makes Matty seem like a charitable soul, doesn't it? I'm glad to see they think the unions will support this, as Ilitch will no-doubt unionize all those minimum wage - pimply faced kids working the counter in all his stores....

Unions often invest in new construction projects because it pretty much guarantees that union workers get the contracts to build. Contrary to popular belief unions could give a shit less about the minimum wage pimply faced kids that work in the buildings they construct.

**emu steve** · February-03-13, 07:27 AM

I think I have an idea:

I'm looking at the graphic from last week's Detroit News article:

1). I'm assuming the arena would bound Woodward/Temple/Sibley/Park.

2). I'd put a garage in the 1/2 block bounded by Park/Sibley/Henry [[leaving the other half of the block, fronting Woodward, available for commercial development.

3). People could walk eastbound on Sibley to the arena or the M-1 rail station to go to the CBD. Folks don't want long walks at night after a hockey game. This is different then during the baseball season where a 1/2 mile walk to Comerica is no problem.

**dtowncitylover** · February-03-13, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

3). People could walk eastbound on Sibley to the arena or the M-1 rail station to go to the CBD. Folks don't want long walks at night after a hockey game. This is different then during the baseball season where a 1/2 mile walk to Comerica is no problem.

I'm going to digress here. I know what you mean but the people around here really need to deal with "cold weather" and walking in general. Take a lesson from Montrealers who are out and about all year around, especially in the winter. I was at one of those transit meetings a couple months ago and some guy wanted to know why BRT stops couldn't be every quarter-mile because "it can be a trek to the station if it's every mile or half-mile". Dude, you have two legs, use them.

I use Montreal because the one time I was there in the winter, Rue Ste-Catherine, their main strip, was like Times Square at peak-season, could not believe how many people were out during the day and night.

But I digress.

**Hardhat** · February-03-13, 06:33 PM

"Unions often invest in new construction projects because it pretty much guarantees that union workers get the contracts to build. Contrary to popular belief unions could give a shit less about the minimum wage pimply faced kids that work in the buildings they construct."
The first sentence is true. The second sentence sure sounds idiotic, but maybe would make some sense with some more information. Care to elaborate and put whatever you're talking about in some sort of perspective instead of denigrating all union trades workers?

GhettoHoodRat · February-03-13, 07:44 PM

Why we need a new stadium?

ArmDetroit · February-03-13, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hardhat

The first sentence is true. The second sentence sure sounds idiotic, but maybe would make some sense with some more information. Care to elaborate and put whatever you're talking about in some sort of perspective instead of denigrating all union trades workers?

I'm going to assume that you're union and direct this question at you. When you go to the drive thru at McDonalds, does it bug you that the people working there aren't unionized or do you just get your mcfood and mcmove along without even thinking about it? If you ever used to go to Blockbuster, did you ever lose sleep because those kids didn't have the force of the union behind them making sure they had health benefits and a nice pension plan? I'm not anti-union by any means as I come from a UAW family, but to think that union workers care about every working stiff they see is just plain silly.

**Hardhat** · February-03-13, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by ArmDetroit

I'm going to assume that you're union and direct this question at you. When you go to the drive thru at McDonalds, does it bug you that the people working there aren't unionized or do you just get your mcfood and mcmove along without even thinking about it? If you ever used to go to Blockbuster, did you ever lose sleep because those kids didn't have the force of the union behind them making sure they had health benefits and a nice pension plan? I'm not anti-union by any means as I come from a UAW family, but to think that union workers care about every working stiff they see is just plain silly.

I am indeed a union member and avid union supporter. These days when only 6 percent of employees in non-government jobs are in a union, I have zero expectation that I'm dealing with a unionized workforce just about anywhere I shop or buy food. Of course, historically, those service jobs were really never unionized to any extent. So those jobs being nonunion doesn't bug me. But having a nation at overall only six percent private workforce unionization does concern me.
Lower unionization brings lower pay and lower job security.
You're making a bit of a false equivalence between caring about service jobs that may never, ever be unionized, and unionized jobs in construction and industrial sectors that are being shed by the month. That is worrisome, and I'm sure the vast majority of union members look beyond their own careers and realize and agree that it's to the detriment of the nation that union jobs are becoming extinct.
But it's a little harsh to say they "could give a shit less" about the minimum wages earned by service workers. Unions are the only group fighting for regular raises in the minimum wage. Personally i wouldn't mind if those McDonalds and other entry-level jobs were unionized. But it ain't gonna happen. I think unions, rightly, are focused on regaining market share in areas that they have lost rather than focusing on organizing burger flippers.