Forget about being saved from the RenCen or Cobo Hall.....

serpico · January-22-13, 12:45 AM

Much less the neighborhoods... Leduff is the only one reporting the real story.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20...ngerously-thin

**jackie5275** · January-22-13, 12:22 PM

This is coming on the heels of the story I saw yesterday about the lady who lived in NW Detroit who's house burned all the way to the ground because there was no fire crew in her area. One had to come from SW Detroit, 18 miles & 21 mins. away.

**DetroitPlanner** · January-22-13, 03:55 PM

I saw this last night. A $2,000 increase in house insurance? How is this sustainable?

**jt1** · January-22-13, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by serpico

Much less the neighborhoods... Leduff is the only one reporting the real story.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20...ngerously-thin

2012-2013 Budget [[with the proposed reductions) calls for $160MM and 1,257 positions.

If what DFD is saying is true then someone needs to ask them what the 1,257 people and 160Million is doing for us.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-22-13, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

2012-2013 Budget [[with the proposed reductions) calls for $160MM and 1,257 positions.

If what DFD is saying is true then someone needs to ask them what the 1,257 people and 160Million is doing for us.

I've never watched LeDuff... he's quite a showman. Should be on stage.

So do we have enough firefighters? And are we getting our monies worth?

How about answers to those two questions.

1) How many firefighters does Detroit have in the trenches -- and how does this compare to the national average

2) How does the $160MM compare to a per-capita [[or per sq. mile) national figure.

That would tell us if we are funding propertly and if we're staffed efficiently.

Facts. Something LeDuff doesn't seem to need for his reporting.

**Richard** · January-22-13, 07:06 PM

Well they discuss this on a firefighter forum not sure if any of it can be applied to Detroit with all of the firebugs running around making life difficult.

This is a copy and paste from a reply from VA.

Population: 1,007,800
Stations: 35
Square Miles: 395
Annual Budget: $128,563,096 [[FY 2005)

Uniformed Staff: 1,226
Civilian Staff: 107

Suppression Incidents: 23,128
EMS: 62,420
Public Service: 5,825
Total: 91,373

http://www.firehouse.com/forums/t78938/

I think I would believe what these guys are saying then anybody else as they are in the trenches so to speak.

serpico · January-22-13, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I've never watched LeDuff... he's quite a showman. Should be on stage.

So do we have enough firefighters? And are we getting our monies worth?

How about answers to those two questions.

1) How many firefighters does Detroit have in the trenches -- and how does this compare to the national average

2) How does the $160MM compare to a per-capita [[or per sq. mile) national figure.

That would tell us if we are funding propertly and if we're staffed efficiently.

Facts. Something LeDuff doesn't seem to need for his reporting.

Do the number of Firefighters really matter? LeDuff's point is Detroit doesnt have the equiptment to fight fires. I guess the bucket brigade might work for house fires but what about large buildings above 3 stories? Pumper trucks that ALL leak is normal for a city the size of Detroit??? What about fire hydrants that dont work?? These are extremely important tools that professional fire fighters need. I guess in simple Detroit thinking the bucket brigade would suffice............to the rest of the civilized world Detroit is best to be avoided......

**jt1** · January-22-13, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by serpico

Do the number of Firefighters really matter? LeDuff's point is Detroit doesnt have the equiptment to fight fires. I guess the bucket brigade might work for house fires but what about large buildings above 3 stories? Pumper trucks that ALL leak is normal for a city the size of Detroit??? What about fire hydrants that dont work?? These are extremely important tools that professional fire fighters need. I guess in simple Detroit thinking the bucket brigade would suffice............to the rest of the civilized world Detroit is best to be avoided......

Then the follow up question is simple. If we don't have the equipment what are we paying the 1,200 plus people do to. I fthe equipment isn't there then just lay them all of and save a hundred millions or so in taxes. Having them sit at the Firehouse or watch the fire doesn't do shit. Hell, have them clean up vacant lots if they really can't do anything

Another pertinent question is how much capital funding DFD submitted in the budget for new equipment, repairs, etc. If they aren't submitting for new equipment or repairs then they are responsible

serpico · January-22-13, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Then the follow up question is simple. If we don't have the equipment what are we paying the 1,200 plus people do to. I fthe equipment isn't there then just lay them all of and save a hundred millions or so in taxes. Having them sit at the Firehouse or watch the fire doesn't do shit. Hell, have them clean up vacant lots if they really can't do anything

Another pertinent question is how much capital funding DFD submitted in the budget for new equipment, repairs, etc. If they aren't submitting for new equipment or repairs then they are responsible

Yup.. .. at least that way the Firefighters could stand watch over the firehouses instead of them being broken into and robbed when they go on runs with their leaking trucks.....

**jt1** · January-23-13, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by serpico

Yup.. .. at least that way the Firefighters could stand watch over the firehouses instead of them being broken into and robbed when they go on runs with their leaking trucks.....

We certainly need 1200+ of them to do that. Instead of sensationalism there are a lot of valid questions LeDuff could ask. A few would be:

1. How much in capital improvement, equipment and repairs was requested.
2. How much was allocated
3. What do the 1200 people do all day if we can only address a handful of fires at any given time

That would be a very basic start but I would expect that from a journalist, so I don;t expect it from LeDuff

serpico · January-23-13, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by jt1

We certainly need 1200+ of them to do that. Instead of sensationalism there are a lot of valid questions LeDuff could ask. A few would be:

1. How much in capital improvement, equipment and repairs was requested.
2. How much was allocated
3. What do the 1200 people do all day if we can only address a handful of fires at any given time

That would be a very basic start but I would expect that from a journalist, so I don;t expect it from LeDuff

Capital improvement needs to come from Illitch and Gilbert. These two Pied Pipers keep demanding more government subsidized projects without paying for the improved infrastructure needed. If these two men think Detroit is such a deal then let them pay for the equiptment. Have you seen how much home owners insurance is on a house in Detroit???? It's because there is no adequate fire department in the city. Leduff is asking the right questions... The city isnt safe to spend time in anymore..

**Dexlin** · January-23-13, 06:06 AM

serpico,

What are you doing about it, and what's with all of the elipses? I mean, honestly, what's your contribution to either this board of the city beyond trolling? A cursory glance at your posting history reveals little more than bitching and moaning and then trying to discourage folks here already doing good things in the city and engaging in intelligent discussion. What's your legitimate purpose, here? Or do you not have one?

serpico · January-23-13, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

serpico,

What are you doing about it, and what's with all of the elipses? I mean, honestly, what's your contribution to either this board of the city beyond trolling? A cursory glance at your posting history reveals little more than bitching and moaning and then trying to discourage folks here already doing good things in the city and engaging in intelligent discussion. What's your legitimate purpose, here? Or do you not have one?

Serpico and others have heard the "come back" story all too much over the past 40 years. It's just a ploy by a few wealthy folks using publicly backed funds to get what they want. "Normal" for Detroit is not accepted for the rest of the country. That is my point. Accepting daily rapes, murders and arson as a "fact of life" in a "big city" is not "NORMAL" especially on a scale as such as Detroit. No other city burns like Detroit...... and that is a sad fact. Stop buying into this crap about Detroit is like other cities... it is not.

**davewindsor** · January-23-13, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by jt1

If the equipment isn't there then just lay them all of and save a hundred millions or so in taxes.

Or lay off as many as is needed to get functional equipment and replace those paid positions with a voluntary fire department like the City of Troy MI [[which has a voluntary fire department).

**Dexlin** · January-23-13, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by serpico

Serpico and others have heard the "come back" story all too much over the past 40 years. It's just a ploy by a few wealthy folks using publicly backed funds to get what they want. "Normal" for Detroit is not accepted for the rest of the country. That is my point. Accepting daily rapes, murders and arson as a "fact of life" in a "big city" is not "NORMAL" especially on a scale as such as Detroit. No other city burns like Detroit...... and that is a sad fact. Stop buying into this crap about Detroit is like other cities... it is not.

You didn't a

You didn't answer a single question I asked or even remotely addressed the post you replied to, troll. I didn't ask you anything so that you could go back over your pre-packaged talking points. I didn't address anything about a comeback; I asked you very specific questions about your purpose on these boards, and like a common troll you are, you didn't address anything I asked you.

Troll, behind me.

**Scottathew** · January-23-13, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Or lay off as many as is needed to get functional equipment and replace those paid positions with a voluntary fire department like the City of Troy MI [[which has a voluntary fire department).

Yup. Troy, with a population of ~80k has a volunteer fire department. I've got a couple friends and a cousin that serve.

I'd like to see more number comparing Detroit's staffing and calls to other cities. I don't have time to find those numbers right now, but I might try to get them later.

Where I live in Warren, the fire union resists efficiencies. Not that they don't work hard and endanger their lives, etc... But they most certainly don't like efficincies like outsourcing EMS transport, when it could be a WFD rig with some very well compensated fire fighters on it.

Detroit flat-out needs to privatize EMS. Detroit has no business trying to run it, the management is too inept.

serpico · January-23-13, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

You didn't a

You didn't answer a single question I asked or even remotely addressed the post you replied to, troll. I didn't ask you anything so that you could go back over your pre-packaged talking points. I didn't address anything about a comeback; I asked you very specific questions about your purpose on these boards, and like a common troll you are, you didn't address anything I asked you.

Troll, behind me.

No need to Troll.... just keeping drinking that Kool-Aide and keep believing that all is "normal"..... If you havent noticied I am here to remind those Kool-Aide drinkers that the city aint "normal". As what to do about it? Talk.. Write.. and demand from those city and business leaders to change. Change direction today. Dont wait or pay for more "studies." Tear down the blight today. Stop making excuses. Detroit is a terminal patient and the doctor keeps hiring more consultants before deciding what to do [[because the consultants are family and friends being paid by the hospital). The suburbs are equally responsible for allowing Detroit to crumble. Mayors from all cities should publicly demand all burned out vacant homes be torned down today. Chicago Mayor Richard Daley in 1968 tore down ever single burned out building from that city's riot [[no sign of blight in Chicago today from the 1968 riot). Detroit? well 40+ years later after its riot in 1967 the blight has only expanded from 12th and Clairmount in all directions. Detroit decided long ago to "study" things first and maybe respond later. Finally, public funding for Wayne State University needs to stop today. I believe the last two Communists in the western world are still on campus there "studying" the cause of the 1967 riots on a government grant......

**mwilbert** · January-23-13, 09:32 PM

I have never gotten the impression that even a significant minority of people on this forum thought that Detroit was normal. As best I can tell, most of the people here find discussing the city interesting precisely because it isn't.

Possibly you should move on to a different message.

serpico · January-23-13, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

I have never gotten the impression that even a significant minority of people on this forum thought that Detroit was normal. As best I can tell, most of the people here find discussing the city interesting precisely because it isn't.

Possibly you should move on to a different message.

Pass the Kool-Aide... my barley pop isnt cuttin it....

**p69rrh51** · January-23-13, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by serpico

No need to Troll.... just keeping drinking that Kool-Aide and keep believing that all is "normal"..... If you havent noticied I am here to remind those Kool-Aide drinkers that the city aint "normal". As what to do about it? Talk.. Write.. and demand from those city and business leaders to change. Change direction today. Dont wait or pay for more "studies." Tear down the blight today. Stop making excuses. Detroit is a terminal patient and the doctor keeps hiring more consultants before deciding what to do [[because the consultants are family and friends being paid by the hospital). The suburbs are equally responsible for allowing Detroit to crumble. Mayors from all cities should publicly demand all burned out vacant homes be torned down today. Chicago Mayor Richard Daley in 1968 tore down ever single burned out building from that city's riot [[no sign of blight in Chicago today from the 1968 riot). Detroit? well 40+ years later after its riot in 1967 the blight has only expanded from 12th and Clairmount in all directions. Detroit decided long ago to "study" things first and maybe respond later. Finally, public funding for Wayne State University needs to stop today. I believe the last two Communists in the western world are still on campus there "studying" the cause of the 1967 riots on a government grant......

How does public funding of a public school-WSU belong in a thread about an understaffed/under equipped DFD? And if you want WSU to stop receiving funds wouldn't that also go for UM-MSU-WMU-CMU-FSU-EMU-LSSU-GVSU-NMU just to name a few?

**Jimaz** · January-23-13, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by serpico

... I believe the last two Communists in the western world are still on campus there "studying" the cause of the 1967 riots on a government grant......

Red-baiting only undermines your own cause, whatever that is.

Nice screen name though. No one deserves more respect than a clean cop.

Stay clean.

**southen** · January-23-13, 11:56 PM

[QUOTE=serpico;363645Finally, public funding for Wayne State University needs to stop today. I believe the last two Communists in the western world are still on campus there "studying" the cause of the 1967 riots on a government grant......[/QUOTE]

i feel as though this last part sums things up nicely...

being a realist and troll are two different things. discouraging people to move here in favor of your town or poo pooing development and the people doing things here over an underfunded fire department is trolling. please don't act like your doing a service or keeping anyone grounded by only spouting negativity. most people here are realists, only difference is we want positive change and you want the place to rot.

**Armin** · January-24-13, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by serpico

Serpico and others have heard the "come back" story all too much over the past 40 years. It's just a ploy by a few wealthy folks using publicly backed funds to get what they want. "Normal" for Detroit is not accepted for the rest of the country. That is my point. Accepting daily rapes, murders and arson as a "fact of life" in a "big city" is not "NORMAL" especially on a scale as such as Detroit. No other city burns like Detroit...... and that is a sad fact. Stop buying into this crap about Detroit is like other cities... it is not.

Serpico, please..... Don't talk about yourself in third person. I've noticed that you do that from time to time, and I don't think that there's a better way to make oneself look more like a tool.

Your relentless bitterness in every post you write is becoming very tiring.

I was thinking that maybe we could get you to take on Strong in a jello-wrestling match at the DYES picnic next summer. Are you in?

And you keep spelling "Kool-Aid" wrong. That's annoying, too. Stop that.

serpico · January-24-13, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by Armin

Serpico, please..... Don't talk about yourself in third person. I've noticed that you do that from time to time, and I don't think that there's a better way to make oneself look more like a tool.

Your relentless bitterness in every post you write is becoming very tiring.

I was thinking that maybe we could get you to take on Strong in a jello-wrestling match at the DYES picnic next summer. Are you in?

And you keep spelling "Kool-Aid" wrong. That's annoying, too. Stop that.

Serpico wishes the city of Detroit would get a clue....instead of blaming the messengers.... Read the front page of the Detroit News... it aint just Serpico stating the facts of how bad things are in the City. I guess u could join the Bing band wagon along with the Pied Piper Dan Gilbert and keep saying things are getting better..... bang..bang.. bang... yeah right....