DDOT Improvements

**Flintoid** · January-21-13, 09:31 PM

While DDOT has a long long way to go from a service standpoint, the department released service changes recently and for the first time in recent memory nearly every change includes DECREASED wait times and INCREASED service.

Wait time is decreasing on Eight Mile, Greenfield, Livernois, Jefferson/Fort, Evergreen, and Woodward. Service is increasing on Woodward, Jefferson/Fort, and Crosstown.

That's 6 routes with decreased wait times and 3 routes with increased service. With the way the department has been operating the last 5 years or so, this is incredibly significant. Got to give progress credit where credit is due.

http://www.detroitmi.gov/Portals/0/d...nd%20Kiosk.pdf

**Rocko** · January-23-13, 08:49 PM

You're not the only one who noticed! It's great to see that most of the routes effected will have shorter wait times and increased headways. And this includes some of DDOT's important linehaul routes, like Jefferson/Fort and Woodward. Now that it seems like DDOT has finally aligned daily pullouts with route structure with fleet size and maintenance, hopefully these small incremental increases in service can become a trend as efficiencies are found and hopefully farebox returns increase. Good news!

**corktownyuppie** · January-24-13, 09:13 AM

That's great news. Lesson learned...if the city chooses to:

- Focus all its resources on its most mission critical routes
- Re-configure its operations to match its fleet size
- Measure results and learn from them

They can improve service levels and service delivery.

Now what if the city applied that philosophy to:

- Its departmental structure
- Fire and Police services
- Budget Items and Costs

**313WX** · January-24-13, 09:55 AM

Not to bring down this thread from its high, but are these ACTUAL decreases in wait times and increases in service, or PROPOSED decreases in wait times and increases in service?

**Dexlin** · January-24-13, 10:03 AM

The link say tha the changes are scheduled to begin January 26, so it's something they are planneing for. Regardless, the system has shown positive improvements in the past year or so. My only critique is that it's too little too late. Ridership is still going down - outside of population loss - if only because the system has had a bad image for so long. I'm really wanting the RTA to get up and running fairly quickly to start running a seamless system. So long as you have two seperate entities running local and express service, you're going to get the worst of both worlds, and neither system is going to meet it's potential.

**gnome** · January-24-13, 10:50 AM

Well said.

**professorscott** · January-25-13, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Not to bring down this thread from its high, but are these ACTUAL decreases in wait times and increases in service, or PROPOSED decreases in wait times and increases in service?

Under the new management DDOT has stopped publishing schedules which were works of fiction. Compare the trip performance before and after his initial round of changes: 60s and 70s [[which is SHOCKINGLY bad) to 98-100 [[which is as good as any system anywhere).

I believe if Mr. Freeland says he can operate this improved schedule, it's because he can do it. Wonderful what you can accomplish when you have grown-ups running the store.

**stasu1213** · January-26-13, 10:32 AM

I am glad that improvements are done to DDOT. The more efficient the system the higher the increase of ridership and more money through ridership that SHOULD go back into the system. I had always felt that the city should had hired someone from New York's transit system or board to run the system or sit on the transportation board in Detroit. Detroit need more transit minded people to run DDOT and not someone who drives his/her's car and rarely catch the bus

**corktownyuppie** · January-26-13, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Under the new management DDOT has stopped publishing schedules which were works of fiction. Compare the trip performance before and after his initial round of changes: 60s and 70s [[which is SHOCKINGLY bad) to 98-100 [[which is as good as any system anywhere).

Amazing what happens when you are addressing reality.

Old System: 100% of the routes. 60% satisfaction
New System: 25% of the routes. 100% satisfaction.

Now here's my brute force estimated numbers on fire service:

Old System: 100% of the coverage. 10% satisfaction.
How about a new system: 10% coverage. 100% satisfaction.

The city has to shrink its service map. Now we can have reasonable debates about how to do it fairly and while protecting those who are most marginalized. We can argue about which areas are the 10% that will be saved and which 90% will remain dormant.

But any plan that fails to shrink the service map is a pipe dream.

**Danny** · January-26-13, 10:55 AM

DDOT improvements HAH! Just a couple days ago. Few kids who were waiting on the bus on Grand River Ave. were robbed. Their values had been taking away. DDOT needs more security.

**stasu1213** · January-26-13, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

DDOT improvements HAH! Just a couple days ago. Few kids who were waiting on the bus on Grand River Ave. were robbed. Their values had been taking away. DDOT needs more security.

Danny that would be a public safety issue if the kids were robbed at a bus stop. Due to the lack of patrol cars thanks to Bing and council, these animals prey upon anyone walking or at the bus stop and not have to keep looking over their shoulders wondering if a squad car will roll up on them in the act. What did the six packing grandmother say after she had shot at one of those animals who tried to mug her: "I am going to buy a car and stay off the bus". I am sure that GM and their puppets, Dave Bing, and the Pugh five, had loved hearing that comment

**corktownyuppie** · January-26-13, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Danny that would be a public safety issue if the kids were robbed at a bus stop. Due to the lack of patrol cars thanks to Bing and council, these animals prey upon anyone walking or at the bus stop and not have to keep looking over their shoulders wondering if a squad car will roll up on them in the act. What did the six packing grandmother say after she had shot at one of those animals who tried to mug her: "I am going to buy a car and stay off the bus". I am sure that GM and their puppets, Dave Bing, and the Pugh five, had loved hearing that comment

It's not fair to blame the messenger for the news they bring. You think these cuts are happening because of Bing?? Doesn't matter who's in office. You can fight the power. You can fight the man. You can even fight city hall. You can't fight math.

**mwilbert** · January-26-13, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Now here's my brute force estimated numbers on fire service:

Old System: 100% of the coverage. 10% satisfaction.
How about a new system: 10% coverage. 100% satisfaction.

The city has to shrink its service map. Now we can have reasonable debates about how to do it fairly and while protecting those who are most marginalized. We can argue about which areas are the 10% that will be saved and which 90% will remain dormant.

But any plan that fails to shrink the service map is a pipe dream.

I'm all in favor of shrinking the geography of service, but in the case of fire services, 100% or nothing isn't necessarily the best approach. It probably isn't politically or morally feasible to let an entire block burn down because it is outside the designated service area, and it may well not be economically sensible either.

Better to have services that vary across the map in a more nuanced way. Areas with houses that are actually worth something probably should get faster fire suppression responses than those with houses that aren't [[economically) worth saving, but you probably still have to have some response, just to make sure fires don't spread across multiple houses.

**Rocko** · January-31-13, 11:26 PM

Also, despite their historic ties with the signs of the old DSR system, DDOT has pretty much completely replaced the old green bus stop signs with the down-pointing yellow arrow with the new color and route coded ones which list the routes and route numbers at each stop. Now, they are also installing route maps at selected transfer bus stop around the city as seen in this photo. Progress!!

**Russix** · February-01-13, 09:58 AM

We need to bring back regional service and 24 hour service, the rest is just horribly below the bar.

**professorscott** · February-01-13, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Russix

We need to bring back regional service and 24 hour service, the rest is just horribly below the bar.

Bring "back" regional service? Cool; while you're at it I'd like my Rolls Royce "back".

**Knightmessenger** · February-03-13, 01:30 AM

The new bus signs with route name and number started appearing back in 2008 and have gradually been added to more and more streets. I don't know why the city didn't do this years ago.
Having a route name and number helps you learn the bus routes or what one to look up for further info. For instance. My parents live fairly close to St. John Hospital on Moross. There's a sign that has 14 Crosstown in the area. Sure enough at Warren and Woodward right by Wayne State, there's also a sign that says 14 Crosstown. I guess this means there's a bus that goes from roughly Mack & Moross to Wayne State but I would never have known that if they still had the generic bus stop sign as in the past.
Although I lived closer to the smart bus 610/615 and took that to wayne State when I was a student there.

**Tig3rzhark** · February-05-13, 01:55 PM

As far as the Bus Stop signs are concerned, they should have not only a drawing of the route but also on the drawing a button telling you where u are.

It's a small addition, but it would make it easier for tourists and out of town family members to get around Detroit.

**Rocko** · February-05-13, 09:40 PM

Good point Tig3rzhark. My understanding is that at least these initial signs are being placed primarily at transfer corners/stops. DDOT usually lists and highlights on the map the transfers on the various routes, so in theory, the location should be noted as a cross-street on the map diagram. So that might help, at least somewhat.

And yes, Knightmessenger, the numbers are to aid in people matching the right bus with the bus stop, assuming the rollboard [[ooops, destination board in modern lingo) is actually working, which most DDOT coaches seem to be, which is a big improvement over several years ago. Also, the stripe inwhich the number is written also indicates something [[which matches to the color coding of the printed schedules).....

"Blue schedules designate buses traveling east/west. Purple schedules designate buses traveling north/south. Green schedules designate buses traveling in and out of downtown Detroit."

**stasu1213** · February-06-13, 06:07 AM

DDOT had smaller shuttle like busses running on Hayes and other routes that had light ridership during the late 90s. Those busses need to be running again and used on night time runs after 11pm instead of shutting down the whole system after 12am. The directors on DDOT in the past had always been anal about having DDOT to provide efficient service to Detroiters. I hope that services go back to running 24 hours with smaller busses used during early morning hours.