MLK Day / Coronation Day 2013

[Papasito]

What's the difference between MLK and Barack Obama?

One was a great American who fought for rights for all citizens, the other fights to restrict and restrain the rights we have fought so passionately to obtain.

I once heard an interview on NPR with a man who worked with MLK. It was at an NAACP convention. They asked him what MLK would have said had he been there.
The gentleman said that he would have addressed the audience, dressed in their finest clothes, suits and dresses, and asked them all how they could come in the building to talk about improving humanity when they walked right past the homeless hungry man sitting at the base of a pillar in front of the building, without giving him a thought or a moment of their time.

Thank you for your contributions to humanity, Martin Luther King Jr. Today is your day.

[oladub]

...sitting here waiting expectantly for the President's I Have a Drone speech after the drone flyover.

The Sultan ascended his throne
His limited powers had grown
A very proud nation
With drones in formation
Now suddenly felt all alone.

-The Limerick King

[jcole]

Can't you just be thankful that we live in a country where we have a peaceful turnover of power every 4 to 8 years and not belittle the process for one lousy day?

[kenp]

Can't you just be thankful that we live in a country where we have a peaceful turnover of power every 4 to 8 years and not belittle the process for one lousy day?

I agree with that, like him or not Obama is president and we need work together.
I have lot of respect for MLK, enjoy the holiday

[oladub]

Can't you just be thankful that we live in a country where we have a peaceful turnover of power every 4 to 8 years and not belittle the process for one lousy day?

No, we also have provisions in the Constitution to impeach presidents who have gone astray. I would like to see Bush in prison too. Even Dennis Kucinich noted that Nobel Peace prize winner Obama's executive ordered war on Libya was an impeachable offense. Kucinich's congressional district was then eliminated. MLK made himself unpopular with President Johnson for opposing the war in Vietnam. That's a big difference from the willingness of some in today's Democratic Party to so willingly be neutered.

Rapper Lupe Fiasco thrown offstage during pre-inauguration event after anti-Obama rant

Martin Luther King Jr.: "Why I Am Opposed to the War in Vietnam"

Sermon at the Ebenezer Baptist Church on April 30, 1967

"And don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as his divine, messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with judgment, and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, "You're too arrogant! And if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I'll place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God." "

full speech - http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle16183.htm

[rb336]

Can't you just be thankful that we live in a country where we have a peaceful turnover of power every 4 to 8 years and not belittle the process for one lousy day?

No, they are themselves mindless drones of the right-wing media - and prove it with every post - with nary an original thought in their heads, who claim to know the Constitution but have never read either the Federalist Papers or any collection of arguments [[pro or con) pertaining to the various clauses in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, etc. etc.

I had to over-ride my ignore on Ola because I knew he would go off on Libya as an impeachable offense, which is pure bullshit for the dozens of reasons he can't absorb [[a - it was authorized by treaty, b - it was authorized by Congress voting to fund it, etc., etc.)

[gazhekwe]

Loved the Speech! Prez hit it slam out of the park and down the road. We are all in this together. Idle No More!

[oladub]

rb, obviously thinks he is more a a Constitutional expert and mainstream Democrat than Dennis Kucinuch when it comes to the Constitution and that right wing talk show hosts opposed all the Bush/Obama wars.

“President Obama moved forward without Congress approving,” “He didn’t have congressional authorization, he has gone against the Constitution, and that’s got to be said.” -Dennis Kucinich

Since then, we have had Mali, Benghazi, and aspects of the refinery takeover linked to Obama's executive war on Libya. What was the exact wording of the UN resolution Obama used to arbitrarily help overthrow Libya with again rb?

Obviously you agree with Obama rather than Martin Luther King's quote which does have pertinence to the drone attack, Libya, and other Obama actions. I'll re-post it here because Martin Luther King is so at odds with Obama's actions.

Martin Luther King Jr.: "Why I Am Opposed to the War in Vietnam"

Sermon at the Ebenezer Baptist Church on April 30, 1967

"And don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as his divine, messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with judgment, and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, "You're too arrogant! And if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I'll place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God."

gazhekwe: Loved the Speech! Prez hit it slam out of the park and down the road. We are all in this together. Idle No More!

Yes, in the sense of disingenuousness and pretentious rhetoric and in the way he kicks economic responsibility down the road. Let the next generation pay for his mess. Yes, we're all in this together. Even the unborn. It's sort of like being in a lifeboat with someone who insists on drilling holes through the hull. Some quotes: "Through it all, we have never relinquished our skepticism of central authority"," preserving our individual freedoms ultimately requires collective action" and that "our journey is not complete until we find a better way to welcome the striving, hopeful immigrants [[meaning illegal aliens here to work at low wages) who still see America as a land of opportunity." Also, It was a nice touch to add, "We, the people, still believe that enduring security and lasting peace do not require perpetual war." Martin Luther King agree with the statement but it isn't consistent with Libya, stretching out the Iraq war to its negotiated end and then trying to extend it, doubling our forces in Afghanistan and losing more US troops there then under Bush, drones, or assassinating American citizens without a court order.

“My fight against terrorism, to me, the biggest terrorist is Obama and the United States of America. I’m trying to fight the terrorism that’s actually causing the other forms of terrorism.”
“You know, the root cause of terrorism is the stuff the U.S. government allows to happen. The foreign policies that we have in place in different countries that inspire people to become terrorists.” -rapper Lupe Fiasco

"As I have walked among the desperate, rejected, and angry young men, I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through non-violent action; for they ask and write me, "So what about Vietnam?" They ask if our nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without first having spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today: my own government." -Martin Luther King

[Gistok]

OK... lets bring this into proper perspective shall we... the majority of white Americans [[I am one, but was just a kid) didn't like Martin Luther King during the early 1960s when he had his freedom marches and march on Washington.

And now as the decades of time mellow out peoples perception... and his legacy, and people are much kinder about both.

Now for Barack Obama... maybe people who don't care for him or hate him today will change their minds about him in the future... who knows... so many hated King while he was alive... history could be mellow on Obama down the road.

And as for Oladub's incessant rants [[in thread after thread) about our the constitutional legalities about our engagements in Africa.... maybe now that we start getting involved in the problems in the Sahara... which we WILL get involved in....

Either Oladub's head will explode from being Apoplectic with rage [[like in the movie Scanners), or he's stroke out...

Either way things will be quieter and more rational about talking about our need to crush Al Qaeda in Africa...

[Papasito]

Rb, like so many modern day Democrats, does not call out their leaders when they usurp the Constitution and make mistakes and bad decisions.

They screamed about how Republicans were supposed to hold Bush accountable for his mistakes and bad decisions, but turn a blind eye to Barack Obama's.

Why is that?
Why can I write a grocery list about Bush's mistakes, but Obama supporters will back Obama on every bad decision he makes? Including ones that have lethal consequences, ones that drive our country into debt, ones that go against the Constitution, and more?

Let us never forget that the Constitution was drafted to PROTECT the people FROM the Government. Every time someone wants to change what is in it, it is a direct attack on your freedom.
Furthermore, If you think it [[amending/modifying the Constitution, or making politically motivated Executive orders that usurp it) is a good thing to do based upon your political party of choice's propaganda, just remember the opposing party can use the powers you grant the government once your party is out of power for 4 years.

Our rights are sacred. Like them or not.
Once they are gone, they are gone.

The Government will never grant you more rights and grant themselves less power. Once you give up rights, you will never get them back. Once the Government grants themselves more power, it will never give it up.

"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
- Albert Einstein

[canuck]

Rb, like so many modern day Democrats, does not call out their leaders when they usurp the Constitution and make mistakes and bad decisions.

Little Father,

With all due respect, the const-o-tution was written and approved by a bunch a guys with a whole bunch of slaves holding the paper it was written on.

[rb336]

Rb, like so many modern day Democrats, does not call out their leaders when they usurp the Constitution and make mistakes and bad decisions.

He hasn't "usurped the constitution"

They screamed about how Republicans were supposed to hold Bush accountable for his mistakes and bad decisions, but turn a blind eye to Barack Obama's.

Bush lied us into a war in Iraq. Flat-out lied. Obama made statements of intent that he was unable to carry out - often due to obstructionist policies of the lunatic right. Huge difference

Why is that?

you and your ilk don't understand that you can disagree with a policy without screaming that it's unconstitutional.

Why can I write a grocery list about Bush's mistakes, but Obama supporters will back Obama on every bad decision he makes?

utter bullshit. I've heard more liberals bitch about Obama's "mistakes" than I ever heard any republicans bitch about dubya. Far more often they screamed that calling dubya on his bullshit was treasonous.

Let us never forget that the Constitution was drafted to PROTECT the people FROM the Government. Every time someone wants to change what is in it, it is a direct attack on your freedom.
Furthermore, If you think it [[amending/modifying the Constitution, or making politically motivated Executive orders that usurp it) is a good thing to do based upon your political party of choice's propaganda, just remember the opposing party can use the powers you grant the government once your party is out of power for 4 years.

typical, simple-minded misunderstanding of the nature of our constitution by someone who has obviously never read the history of its creation. Yes part of the constitution is designed to "protect us from the government." but most of what your ill-informed ilk think is unconstitutional just isn't - not in the least. And that has been upheld since the earliest Supreme Court rulings. That you choose to remain an ignorant slug on the subject is obvious, since I and many others have provided original source material proving you wrong.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Little Father,

With all due respect, the const-o-tution was written and approved by a bunch a guys with a whole bunch of slaves holding the paper it was written on.

You're right.... very right in fact.

[oladub]

OK... lets bring this into proper perspective shall we... the majority of white Americans [[I am one, but was just a kid) didn't like Martin Luther King during the early 1960s when he had his freedom marches and march on Washington.

And now as the decades of time mellow out peoples perception... and his legacy, and people are much kinder about both.

Now for Barack Obama... maybe people who don't care for him or hate him today will change their minds about him in the future... who knows... so many hated King while he was alive... history could be mellow on Obama down the road.

And as for Oladub's incessant rants [[in thread after thread) about our the constitutional legalities about our engagements in Africa.... maybe now that we start getting involved in the problems in the Sahara... which we WILL get involved in....

Either Oladub's head will explode from being Apoplectic with rage [[like in the movie Scanners), or he's stroke out...

Either way things will be quieter and more rational about talking about our need to crush Al Qaeda in Africa...

Gistok, Spoken like a true neocon, on MLK day yet, although you aren't even a Republican. You realize, don't you,that you are even contradicting a nice sounding thing the President said today? "We, the people, still believe that enduring security and lasting peace do not require perpetual war."

I agree that with the healing of time, we will gradually get to forget Obama beginning in 1,460 days as we have already started to forget Bush. I do regret the mess Obama has created for our County in Africa. Had he left Libya alone, Benghazi, Mali, the persecution of blacks in Libya, and to a less provable extent, the massacre of oil workers wouldn't have happened. It's blowback. This is another example the Constitution should be observed rather than danced around by "constitutional lecturers" acting like dictators. Nor do I think it a good idea to give billions to the Arab brotherhood in Egypt or military supplies to Al Queda factions in either Libya or Syria or assault rifles to Mexican drug lords for that matter. Everyone from Lupe Fiasco to Noam Chomsky to Ron Paul have been warning us about the blowback as Martin Luther King did about Vietnam. What's your solution to the Obama fanned conflicts in N. Africa, more drone diplomacy? Do you think that Marin Luther King would have agreed with President Obama's drone diplomacy and perpetual wars?

[firstandten]

When you think about it almost four years ago to the day, there was a secret GOP meeting at a DC steakhouse where they hatched a plan to bring down Obama's presidency. The plan involved voting No on everything, filibustering when they could. The Repubs did this knowing at the time the country was losing 600,000/700,000 jobs a month. And to think it almost worked. Some people could make a case that the meeting was treasonous, some just call it politics. Thankfully the American people saw thru the lies and misdirection and we were able to enjoy this Coronation Day four years later.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Now for Barack Obama... maybe people who don't care for him or hate him today will change their minds about him in the future... who knows... so many hated King while he was alive... history could be mellow on Obama down the road.

Thank you for this post. I initially came in here to post something similar but you already said what I was going to say. You don't know how much I beam with pride when I see conservatives today praise MLK, especially when conservatives in the past had nothing nice to say about MLK when I was growing up.

[Papasito]

You don't know how much I beam with pride when I see conservatives today praise MLK, especially when conservatives in the past had nothing nice to say about MLK when I was growing up.

Fun Facts:

• The KKK was formed and run by Southern Democrats
• Democrats for the majority opposed the Civil Rights act and voted against it
• Democrats ran the Confederate States of America, holding both the Presidency and the Vice Presidency
• Democrats opposed Martin Luther King

When Civil Rights were granted and slavery overturned, the method changed to pushing minorities into dependancy upon the Government in order to pursuade them for their votes.

Somehow with the twisting of history and through propoganda and the media, people have forgotten how the Democrats filabustered against the Civil Rights Act, how Democrats like Robert Byrd and many others discriminated against them, and how their Grandparents and Great-Grandparents were looked on as less than equal.
They also forget how the Republican party was the party of equal rights, civil rights, and individual freedom.

I'm not saying the Republicans were high and mighty, pure and just in the push for Civil Rights, but I am saying they did more for them than the Democrats did.
MLK Jr himself said he felt both parties let his cause down:

King critiqued both parties' performance on promoting racial equality:

"Actually, the Negro has been betrayed by both the Republican and the Democratic party. The Democrats have betrayed him by capitulating to the whims and caprices of the Southern Dixiecrats. The Republicans have betrayed him by capitulating to the blatant hypocrisy of reactionary right wing northern Republicans. And this coalition of southern Dixiecrats and right wing reactionary northern Republicans defeats every bill and every move towards liberal legislation in the area of civil rights."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.

Civil Rights Act, Votes By partyThe original House version:^[16]

• Democratic Party: 152–96 [[61–39%)
• Republican Party: 138–34 [[80–20%)

Cloture in the Senate:^[17]

• Democratic Party: 44–23 [[66–34%)
• Republican Party: 27–6 [[82–18%)

The Senate version:^[16]

• Democratic Party: 46–21 [[69–31%)
• Republican Party: 27–6 [[82–18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House:^[16]

• Democratic Party: 153–91 [[63–37%)
• Republican Party: 136–35 [[80–20%)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

These are historical FACTS.

[firstandten]

Papa, nobody is disputing that. The Dixiecrats for the most part were racist, reactionary, Dems in name only. However to offset that many of the Repubs while conservative in the North were more moderate than they are today. MLK was speaking to the times that he lived, in that both parties failed Black America. However one must vote for the party or person that serves their best interest. So even though the Dems aren't perfect African-Americans have since the times of FDR have decided that the Dems have given them their best shot of fulfilling the American Dream.

[rb336]

Ah, papa, your lack of understanding is once again highly amusing. Dixiecrats and their sympathizers are now the heart of the republican party and the tea party. There were, in essence, two Democratic parties until very recently, and there are still a number of "blue dogs" flying the dixiecrat flag.

here are more historical facts for you:

Lincoln was anti-capitalist:

These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people, and now that they have got into a quarrel with themselves we are called upon to appropriate the people's money to settle the quarrel

Teddy Roosevelt was pro-labor [[and a great trust-buster...):

It is essential that there should be organization of labor. This is an era of organization. Capital organizes and therefore labor must organize.

as was Dwight D. Eisenhower:

Only a fool would try to deprive working men and working women of their right to join the union of their choice.

Reagan wanted controls on assault weapons [[he fully backed the Brady Bill):

I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense. But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home

and wanted the Cap Gains tax to be the same as regular taxes:

Do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less?

Guess what, papa. Things change. Parties change. If you look at what was actually done by Clinton AND Obama, it rings more true of Goldwater circa 1964 than Johnson or FDR. They are now a center-right party. Republicans, on the other hand, have jumped into the lunatic fringe right, a fact acknowledged by two people formerly viewed as "extreme right wingers" - Goldwater and Dole - who found that the party had moved so far to the right that they were now "the liberals of the party"

[oladub]

When you think about it almost four years ago to the day, there was a secret GOP meeting at a DC steakhouse where they hatched a plan to bring down Obama's presidency. The plan involved voting No on everything, filibustering when they could. The Repubs did this knowing at the time the country was losing 600,000/700,000 jobs a month. And to think it almost worked. Some people could make a case that the meeting was treasonous, some just call it politics. Thankfully the American people saw thru the lies and misdirection and we were able to enjoy this Coronation Day four years later.

I'm not sure what your comment has to do with MLK but the 8M Americans who have stopped looking for work under Obama, no longer counted as unemployed, divided by the 48 months of Obama's presidency equals an additional 166,667 jobs per month. To make matters worse for blacks, blacks have suffered from higher percentages of job losses and home repos than whites and have lost a higher percentage of their savings than whites during the first four Obama years. You can blame all that on the unnamed and unlinked reference to Republicans who once met at a steakhouse but these things happened under Obama and he had a Democratic Congress half of that time. I didn't watch any of the inaugural events, except for Lupe getting taken off the stage for voicing his opinions, because I figured that I would be seeing plenty of Obama in the next four years blaming others for his failures as has been his habit.

This reminds me of something MLK said that really bothered me back in those days. I was thrilled when our astronauts were broadcasting from the moon. Meanwhile, on the tv news, Martin Luther King denounced the space program, bummer, saying that that money could have been much better used to feed the poor. I happened to know that, at the time, 18% of all the highly paid union aero-space jobs were held by blacks. I just disagreed with him about that thinking his point was shortsighted. I agreed with him about Vietnam as previously mentioned but disagreed with him about the space program. Fast forward to a lot of blacks losing good union jobs at the post office while that piece of our infrastructure is allowed to die and the emphasis is instead on more government dependency programs. Killing good paying black union jobs while simultaneously handing out more food stamps didn't/doesn't make sense to me then or now.

[firstandten]

I'm not sure what your comment has to do with MLK but the 8M Americans who have stopped looking for work under Obama, no longer counted as unemployed, divided by the 48 months of Obama's presidency equals an additional 166,667 jobs per month. To make matters worse for blacks, blacks have suffered from higher percentages of job losses and home repos than whites and have lost a higher percentage of their savings than whites during the first four Obama years. You can blame all that on the unnamed and unlinked reference to Republicans who once met at a steakhouse but these things happened under Obama and he had a Democratic Congress half of that time. I didn't watch any of the inaugural events, except for Lupe getting taken off the stage for voicing his opinions, because I figured that I would be seeing plenty of Obama in the next four years blaming others for his failures as has been his habit.

I only mentioned Obama because early on in the thread his name was thrown out there by a couple of posters. The meeting that I referenced was a real meeting, the participants are known etc. http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wol...e-Constipation
Speaking of a Dem congress lets see what Obama can do with a majority in the House [[maybe 2014 will be the year) and 60 in the Senate

[rb336]

I only mentioned Obama because early on in the thread his name was thrown out there by a couple of posters. The meeting that I referenced was a real meeting, the participants are known etc. http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wol...e-Constipation
Speaking of a Dem congress lets see what Obama can do with a majority in the House [[maybe 2014 will be the year) and 60 in the Senate

a true 60, can the few bluedogs

[Crumbled_pavement]

Fun Facts:

• The KKK was formed and run by Southern Democrats
• Democrats for the majority opposed the Civil Rights act and voted against it
• Democrats ran the Confederate States of America, holding both the Presidency and the Vice Presidency
• Democrats opposed Martin Luther King

When Civil Rights were granted and slavery overturned, the method changed to pushing minorities into dependancy upon the Government in order to pursuade them for their votes.

Somehow with the twisting of history and through propoganda and the media, people have forgotten how the Democrats filabustered against the Civil Rights Act, how Democrats like Robert Byrd and many others discriminated against them, and how their Grandparents and Great-Grandparents were looked on as less than equal.
They also forget how the Republican party was the party of equal rights, civil rights, and individual freedom.

I'm not saying the Republicans were high and mighty, pure and just in the push for Civil Rights, but I am saying they did more for them than the Democrats did.
MLK Jr himself said he felt both parties let his cause down:


These are historical FACTS.

I love how Republicans like to act as if the Democratic party was always liberal leaning and the Republican party was always conservative leaning. This nonsense post that Papasito posted is my favorite of how Republicans today try to twist things. It never works on anybody, but they never tire of trying this tactic. Btw Papasito, both parties are corrupt and I lean on neither for salvation.

[Zacha341]

Yep... and we'll see stranger behavior [[why is my party doing that?) and more shape-shifting as time goes on.

....Both parties are corrupt and I lean on neither for salvation.

[rb336]

yes, both parties, ultimately, are beholden to the corporate interests, but the republicans more radically so