Judge signs order to demolish Charlevoix Hotel

**Richard** · January-12-13, 06:02 PM

I guess it is over ,they have secured a million to demolish it but no funds to mothball,kinda sad really.I wonder where they found the Million?

On Wednesday, a judge signed an order to tear down the old hotel.

An attorney for the Charlevoix building owner says they want to tear it down too, and have secured a million dollars for demolition.

Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/judge-s...#ixzz2HnylZGD0

**Novine** · January-12-13, 08:35 PM

Typical CoD. Don't enforce ordinances, allow buildings go to rot, and then waste millions to tear down what you could never afford to build today.

**canuck** · January-12-13, 08:39 PM

Charlevoy, Charlevwah. Detroit, Detrwah.

**softailrider** · January-12-13, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Typical CoD. Don't enforce ordinances, allow buildings go to rot, and then waste millions to tear down what you could never afford to build today.

That area was dead for decades, now it's on its way back and the building is too far gone.

**downtownguy** · January-12-13, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

That area was dead for decades, now it's on its way back and the building is too far gone.

...Says who?

**wolverine** · January-12-13, 11:31 PM

Sad. Vacancy laws need to be better enforced to prevent these buildings from getting this far in a state of disrepair.

The building could be renovated or mothballed. It's certainly a possibility, but probably extremely expensive.

The time to save it came and went. Just a shame there's now another vacant downtown lot.

**mikefmich** · January-13-13, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

That area was dead for decades, now it's on its way back and the building is too far gone.

No such thing as too far gone.....not including a thermal nuclear explosion.

**royce** · January-13-13, 04:13 AM

FINALLY! You preservationists get all bent out of shape about a building that has been exposed to the elements for decades and is raining bricks on cars and people and you have the nerve to fault the CoD. Hey, how about blaming the damn property owner who let this shit happen? Private entities or individual property owners own the majority of the buildings in a city. The CoD only owns a small fraction and probably rents the rest.

The property owner is the person responsible for keeping up the property. Yeah, the CoD should have fined the owner up the butt, but what usually happens is that the owner finds a lawyer, promises to make repairs and never does, and the building just sits there rotting while the owner, lawyer, and city/county work out a payment plan. Remember the property rights of a private citizen supercede the rights of a government body [[CoD here). Then years later when the property becomes dangerous the CoD or Wayne County steps in and tears it down. Isn't that Higgins POS property on Bagley still standing. Where are the preservationists on that one?

Now, don't get me wrong, I would love to save as many old buildings in downtown Detroit as possible. The David Whitney and the David Stott are two I would love to see renovated. Although they have been vacant for the most part for years, they haven't been exposed to the elements like the Hotel Charlevoix. The owners chose to protect the buildings as best they could. Even the Book Building's owner has made an effort to preserve the building. However, it seems like the owner of the Hotel Charlevoix didn't give a f**k about his building. Hell, there were for sale signs on the building but who in their right mind would want to buy the shit when the windows had been removed, exposing the building to the elements, not for a month, but for decades.

I'm sure the businesses in the area [[Cliff Bells and the Park Bar) put pressure on the city to do something about the Hotel Charlevoix and they rightfully should have. I only wish it had been done years ago. Putting that stupid chain-linked fence around the building was an abomination. An emergency demolition order should have been filed one minute after those bricks came crashing down on the cars below. I'm sure it would have happened if a pedestrian was struck and killed by those bricks.

There still remains many abandoned buildings in downtown Detroit. I believe some can be saved [[Whitney, Stott) and some need to be torn down [[Hotel Charlevoix, Higgins POS on Bagley, and the Metropolitan). I am glad to see Dan Gilbert take over many of these buildings. I have a strong feeling he won't just sit on them and let them rot. Too bad other property owners can't be more diligent with taking care of their properties, but in the end the vacant properties are THEIR properties. Preservationists go after them and not the CoD.

**Honky Tonk** · January-13-13, 07:45 AM

YES, I blame the City. I blame the City for incompetent bookeeping. I blame the City for not knowing whether or not Olympia Entertainment owes the City 71 million in royalties. I blame th City for not knowing whether or not Mike Ilitch owes 1.5 million in back taxes. I blame the City for giving him the go ahead to build yet another money making venue without resolving old issues first. I blame the City for having do nothing or non existent employees on their payroll, and no accountability to correct the situation. I blame the City for squandering revenue on useless items. I blame the City for not having a process in place to empty quarters out of parking meters periodically. I blame the City for letting their school system go bankrupt, building new ones, and having low attendance. I blame the City for sending someone out twice a month to tack citations on a decrepit building. I blame the City for not having either the resources, or likely, the know how or the will, to find said owner of said building. I blame the City for not bringing legal action on said owner, and making him accountable for said building violations. Had this been in one of those dreaded, backward suburbs, let's say Southfield for instance, this guy would have had some answering to do for endangering citizens, by dropping bricks on them, years ago. Monies would have been garnished, fines levied, the situation corrected. But this is Detroit, where incompetency and corruption is an art form. So I blame the City. Why? Because no matter how involved I get, or who I vote for, the situation never seems to get better, and I pay one of the highest millages in the area. So you see, I have nothing left but to blame the City, for letting things get this far.

**p69rrh51** · January-13-13, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by royce

FINALLY! You preservationists get all bent out of shape about a building that has been exposed to the elements for decades and is raining bricks on cars and people and you have the nerve to fault the CoD. Hey, how about blaming the damn property owner who let this shit happen? Private entities or individual property owners own the majority of the buildings in a city. The CoD only owns a small fraction and probably rents the rest.

The property owner is the person responsible for keeping up the property. Yeah, the CoD should have fined the owner up the butt, but what usually happens is that the owner finds a lawyer, promises to make repairs and never does, and the building just sits there rotting while the owner, lawyer, and city/county work out a payment plan. Remember the property rights of a private citizen supercede the rights of a government body [[CoD here). Then years later when the property becomes dangerous the CoD or Wayne County steps in and tears it down. Isn't that Higgins POS property on Bagley still standing. Where are the preservationists on that one?

Now, don't get me wrong, I would love to save as many old buildings in downtown Detroit as possible. The David Whitney and the David Stott are two I would love to see renovated. Although they have been vacant for the most part for years, they haven't been exposed to the elements like the Hotel Charlevoix. The owners chose to protect the buildings as best they could. Even the Book Building's owner has made an effort to preserve the building. However, it seems like the owner of the Hotel Charlevoix didn't give a f**k about his building. Hell, there were for sale signs on the building but who in their right mind would want to buy the shit when the windows had been removed, exposing the building to the elements, not for a month, but for decades.

I'm sure the businesses in the area [[Cliff Bells and the Park Bar) put pressure on the city to do something about the Hotel Charlevoix and they rightfully should have. I only wish it had been done years ago. Putting that stupid chain-linked fence around the building was an abomination. An emergency demolition order should have been filed one minute after those bricks came crashing down on the cars below. I'm sure it would have happened if a pedestrian was struck and killed by those bricks.

There still remains many abandoned buildings in downtown Detroit. I believe some can be saved [[Whitney, Stott) and some need to be torn down [[Hotel Charlevoix, Higgins POS on Bagley, and the Metropolitan). I am glad to see Dan Gilbert take over many of these buildings. I have a strong feeling he won't just sit on them and let them rot. Too bad other property owners can't be more diligent with taking care of their properties, but in the end the vacant properties are THEIR properties. Preservationists go after them and not the CoD.

Your lack of knowledge on building design is astonishing! The Hotel Charlevoix is so overbuilt the decades of neglect have not done much to damage the actual structure of the building. The bricks falling while a major nuisance and should be repaired as soon as possible have absolutely nothing to do with the structure of the building they are just decoration.
Also if you did a little bit of reading on here you would find that the owner is in the top 2 or 3 neglectors drawing the most ire on this forum, and yes the CoD is as much to blame as the owner!
Last since you seem to very uniformed this building is one of just a handful of designs left by architect/Detroiter Henry S. Joy.
What we don't need is another stupid parking lot!
A link to few more of Joy's designs for those who have a Facebook account.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...6515382&type=3

**Gistok** · January-13-13, 10:45 AM

I have to second p69's comments... the Hotel Charlevoix is... like the MCS... so overbuilt, that exposure to the elements hasn't damaged it too badly, except for its' skin. Even the United Artists Building had a rain of bricks come off the building back in the early 1980s, and that was 30 years ago!! It has since undergone a mothballing, that would never been undertaken if it were too far gone for restoration.

So people do need to differentiate the difference [[as in the Wurlitzer's case)... between a building's skin and its' structural soundness.

Here's a postcard image of it before the 1950s edict to secure/remove cornices off of Detroit's high rises. The Charlevoix, worst than most, suffered from that removal....

http://historicdetroit.org/postcards/buildings/2969/

What is sad is that this will further reduce the remaining streetwall of Park Ave., once one of Detroit's most attractive streets in terms of tall buildings. Now there will be such a large gap in that streetwall that Mike Ilitch might as well build his new arena right along [[facing) Park Ave.

**rjlj** · January-13-13, 11:05 AM

Yes, well said.

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Your lack of knowledge on building design is astonishing! The Hotel Charlevoix is so overbuilt the decades of neglect have not done much to damage the actual structure of the building. The bricks falling while a major nuisance and should be repaired as soon as possible have absolutely nothing to do with the structure of the building they are just decoration.
Also if you did a little bit of reading on here you would find that the owner is in the top 2 or 3 neglectors drawing the most ire on this forum, and yes the CoD is as much to blame as the owner!
Last since you seem to very uniformed this building is one of just a handful of designs left by architect/Detroiter Henry S. Joy.
What we don't need is another stupid parking lot!
A link to few more of Joy's designs for those who have a Facebook account.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...6515382&type=3

**royce** · January-13-13, 11:42 AM

Ok, so it has great bones. As someone said, it would be an expensive undertaking to try and renovate the Hotel Charlevoix. In the meantime, it is an eyesore and a danger to the public. Now, maybe the buttwipe of a property owner will sell the land or get a developer to build a new apartment high-rise on the site. I hear downtown is in need of more housing units.

**Richard** · January-13-13, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by royce

Ok, so it has great bones. As someone said, it would be an expensive undertaking to try and renovate the Hotel Charlevoix. In the meantime, it is an eyesore and a danger to the public. Now, maybe the buttwipe of a property owner will sell the land or get a developer to build a new apartment high-rise on the site. I hear downtown is in need of more housing units.

So now he has secured a million dollars for the demolition,would you say that that property is now worth in excess of a million dollars as a vacant lot?

Or maybe if the securing of the million dollars was through demolition funds given to him by the city and not placed as a lien because when you use fed funds that would be a non requirement.If that was the case would that be right?

Lets face it he has other properties in the same condition that are not mothballed because he does not have the funds,and all of a sudden a million pops up? Again is that even as a vacant property is it worth a million ? Only to me if the million is not coming out of your pocket and is a gift.

There is something going on here that goes deeper then approval for demolition, lots of unanswered questions that need to be answered.

The oldest hotel in the city basically has the historical value of a vacant lot.

**ismoakrack** · January-13-13, 01:05 PM

Who is this judge that signed a demo approval? Can't the council or the city still deny a demo permit?

**Richard** · January-13-13, 01:20 PM

Good question, My biggest concern now is Karla Henderson is head of the building department her experience comes from running a retirement center and the recent rebuilding of Highland Park into the excellent shape it is in today,once the building department deems it not feasible for rehabilitation it has an impact on judges decisions.

This is going to get scary because her thought pattern is simple,if there are no boards on the windows tear it down,she is sitting on the funds to do it ,unlike in the past ,unfortunately her past experience is not in any kind of building experience to make that decision.

There is no thought given to the city's history and its retention of its identity,it plays no part and is seen as bricks and mortar,tear it all down and make way for future development because that thought pattern of the seventies works so well and has proven to be the leading cause of so much development within the city.

**ismoakrack** · January-13-13, 01:27 PM

I thought even the prosaic warehouse behind the hotel was a loss and a terrible waste. Even on the rare occasion a new building is erected on the site of a former structure, it is almost always a fraction of the size of the former building. One building at a time, Detroit is becoming a small town.

**Richard** · January-13-13, 01:40 PM

The buildings are an asset to the city in a way, it is a shame for a city that has so much architectural value that is not replicated in other cities to be laid to waste.

90% of all of the currant development is occurring with existing buildings and not vacant land.Granted it would take millions to rehabilitate it but it would also take millions to replace it. What is really the end game in replacing it?

How many people have ever said ,hey lets go to Detroit and check out all of the new buildings,yea high on my list why waste the gas time and energy when you can go anywhere to see new buildings.

That is what happens though one by one they fade away then one day in the future people sit there and say what were they thinking back then?

**neavling** · January-13-13, 01:54 PM

Richard, I agree with your feelings about Henderson, but how do you know the city is sitting on demo money? Last I heard, there demo fund was next to zero. I'm not challenging you; I'm just curious if there is information out there that I am not privy to.

Robert Sachs tried to get permission last year to demolish the building, but the Historic Commissioner objected.

This could be a lot like the Wurlitzer. The city will complain and nothing will happen because there's no teeth behind these orders, and the city can't just demolish this property with tax dollars when it's nearing bankruptcy.

I've been inside the hotel. Cosmetically, it's falling apart. The stairways have been taken out to keep trespassers out, but I managed to get to the top to check out the condition. Very sad situation.

**Gistok** · January-13-13, 02:14 PM

Can anyone explain the discrepancy between the 2 dollar amounts mentioned in the original article/newsreel? One mentions they have secured a 1/4 million dollars, and the other mentions a $1 million demolition. Huh?

**Richard** · January-13-13, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by neavling

Richard, I agree with your feelings about Henderson, but how do you know the city is sitting on demo money? Last I heard, there demo fund was next to zero. I'm not challenging you; I'm just curious if there is information out there that I am not privy to.

can't just demolish this property with tax dollars when it's nearing bankruptcy.

A13000 Buildings Safety Engineering and Environmental

http://www.detroitmi.gov/Portals/0/d...%20stamped.pdf

Look at their mission and goals at a cost of $24,836,431 per year .

June 3 2012 and they have until February of this year.

Detroit, other Michigan cities must rush to spend $224M in housing aid or give it back

http://www.freep.com/article/20120603/NEWS15/206030487/Detroit-other-Michigan-cities-must-rush-to-spend-36-224M-in-housing-aid-or-give-it-back

Detroit $42,925,981 allotted $5,994,901 spent. You can see why she manipulated the FREEP on Packard to gain public support,it does not look to good spending half on one building when you can help secure a lot of residential neighborhoods with 20 mil .

Broke yes or no?

**CLAUDE G** · January-13-13, 05:00 PM

Lets call the same assholes who tore down Tiger Stadium. They like to work for free and make their profit from selling off all the scrap steel and concrete.

But I agree this time, im all for historic preservation but this building should be torn down.

**illwill** · January-13-13, 07:24 PM

When I see situations such as this one, buildings that borderline teardown or save, I tend to wonder if an investor [[or numerous investors) would have stepped forward to buy this building; were the city to have a better understanding of its financial future.

Because city living has become more demanding in recent years, this would be an awesome project for the right developer at the right price. Unfortunately, I think many developers are sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what the outcome is for Detroit’s economic future. Detroit is ripe for the pickings and yet, only a hand full of developers are playing in the pool.

Another example of Detroit ALWAYS missing the economic boom opportunity, due to its own incompetency.

**wolverine** · January-13-13, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Your lack of knowledge on building design is astonishing! The Hotel Charlevoix is so overbuilt the decades of neglect have not done much to damage the actual structure of the building. The bricks falling while a major nuisance and should be repaired as soon as possible have absolutely nothing to do with the structure of the building they are just decoration.
Also if you did a little bit of reading on here you would find that the owner is in the top 2 or 3 neglectors drawing the most ire on this forum, and yes the CoD is as much to blame as the owner!
Last since you seem to very uniformed this building is one of just a handful of designs left by architect/Detroiter Henry S. Joy.
What we don't need is another stupid parking lot!
A link to few more of Joy's designs for those who have a Facebook account.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...6515382&type=3

I have to say I agree. I mean I worked on some renos that were pretty bad. The Charlevoix is steel frame with vaulted clay tile. Structure and infill block is probably fine but the facade would need to be overhauled. In any city renovating this would be a walk in the park. But no offense to Detroit in that I'm not sure you could get a big enough return converting to condos.

**Richard** · January-13-13, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by illwill

When I see situations such as this one, buildings that borderline teardown or save, I tend to wonder if an investor [[or numerous investors) would have stepped forward to buy this building; were the city to have a better understanding of its financial future.

Because city living has become more demanding in recent years, this would be an awesome project for the right developer at the right price. Unfortunately, I think many developers are sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what the outcome is for Detroit’s economic future. Detroit is ripe for the pickings and yet, only a hand full of developers are playing in the pool.

Another example of Detroit ALWAYS missing the economic boom opportunity, due to its own incompetency.

I would not say that investors shy away because of the city's financial shape because they understand by investing they help the bigger financial picture thus improving their investment.

More so the way it was being run.

Pure Michigan touts facade improvement grants,the city has always had facade improvement grants funded by the feds there is no reason in the world a building is being demolished because of the lack of facade improvements.

Unless the owner decided to speculate and not spend a dime in time or effort from the get go. Demolition by neglect.

Or the city was so screwed up that they never even applied for the funds.

Or those who were in power profited by the way things were changing it would have drawn attention,but not making the changes in itself drew the attention.

We have bought buildings like that from cities before that were also broke,but the first thing they did was hand over a facade improvement grant or worse case 50% cost split because they understood the importance of what the building brought to their city.