Vintage Bars -- Cass Corridor Area and More

**ladot01** · January-08-13, 11:24 AM

When I googled I found a discussion on bars in this forum but can't re-find it. I got a pang of nostalgia for the bars where you could really wallow in Detroitness...a pass time I did far too much of. Looking for photos or just memories people have of these and other places:

Anderson's Gardens: 3rd Near Willis. Had classic Detroit jazz among other things...well policed, the bar tenders had badges. Some detectives pimping as well...no problem, no judgement...it worked.

Kibitzer: Cass near Selden. The ultimate Detroit atmosphere, drug overdoses, shootings...still had an Appalachian flair when I frequented the joint.

Alcove: Woodward near Warren. WSU radicals, winos, workers, businessmen....perfect mix. Door was white to simulate a medical clinic, designed to keep certain folks out.

Cobb's Corner: Was this named after Ty Cobb?

O'Halloran's Tipperary Pub--Southfield near Plymouth Rd. Still there? Saw the Clancy Brother's there, 1972.

So many others....the places that really made Detroit, Detroit.

Would love to hear outcomes, building still standing? Place still open!?! Memories...stories....someone's gotta have shooting stories from the Kibitzer. I saw a murder committed two feet away from me just outside the place....loved it. The bar, I mean.

**DetroitPlanner** · January-08-13, 11:51 AM

The Tipp was between Tireman and Joy Rd. I can recall being called up to the bar on more than one occasion as a 14 year old to walk there and drive my parents and their drunk-ass friends home. One time I even had to drive the priest home, he was bartending and overserved himself.

The Tipp is still standing but it is not open. Tommy O'Halloran sold it to some youngsters who had little bar experience. Once in the Town of Tipperary I went to O'Halloran's pub.

**gnome** · January-08-13, 12:34 PM

The Tip pretty much died after a bar patron was shot outside on the sidewalk and bled out while clawing at the door.

The patron was a local favorite, and for the life of me I can't recall his name, but as I remember it the bar was packed for New Years or St. Patty's and the guy went outside to get a pack of smokes and while coming back he is gut shot right in front. Since the bar was jammed, no one inside heard anything, least of all the poor guy clawing for help.

He is discovered, the cops show up and sequester everyone to find out who knows what, the cops do their investigation and keep everyone there until well pass sunrise. Of course there is no where to sit except at a few booths, the cops don't let anyone catch 40 winks...

The place hung on for a few more years, but the regulars stopped coming ...

**Honky Tonk** · January-08-13, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by ladot01

When I googled I found a discussion on bars in this forum but can't re-find it. I got a pang of nostalgia for the bars where you could really wallow in Detroitness...a pass time I did far too much of. Looking for photos or just memories people have of these and other places:

Anderson's Gardens: 3rd Near Willis. Had classic Detroit jazz among other things...well policed, the bar tenders had badges. Some detectives pimping as well...no problem, no judgement...it worked.

Kibitzer: Cass near Selden. The ultimate Detroit atmosphere, drug overdoses, shootings...still had an Appalachian flair when I frequented the joint.

Alcove: Woodward near Warren. WSU radicals, winos, workers, businessmen....perfect mix. Door was white to simulate a medical clinic, designed to keep certain folks out.

Cobb's Corner: Was this named after Ty Cobb?

O'Halloran's Tipperary Pub--Southfield near Plymouth Rd. Still there? Saw the Clancy Brother's there, 1972.

So many others....the places that really made Detroit, Detroit.

Would love to hear outcomes, building still standing? Place still open!?! Memories...stories....someone's gotta have shooting stories from the Kibitzer. I saw a murder committed two feet away from me just outside the place....loved it. The bar, I mean.

Is Jimbo's still open? It had that kind of real Detroit elegance to it.

**ladot01** · January-08-13, 01:28 PM

Thanks...good to know how, why and when places met their demise. When I was going to the Tipperary Pub I lived downtown and the west side neighborhood between Southfield and Evergreen was devoid of any real crime [[relatively speaking).

My old girlfriend lived on Minock St. near Plymouth and Evergreen. Since you guys are West Siders, I assume Rouge Swimming Pools are gone? When, why, how? Are the classic buildings still standing? I can still smell the chlorine. Those old red-brick bath house structure were stunning and functional.

I was always terrified of the BIG pool on the south side of the three-pool complex. That neighborhood was the best of the best in the 50s and 60s. There were, however, some urban folklore tales from the park which may or may not have been based in reality -- the one I heard was that on a "lovers' lane" area near the Rouge River -- someone [[or a small gang pretending to be a cop[[s) or other official) knocks on a window, embarrassing the couple, then rapes the girl, hangs the guy from a tree and flay and skin him as she watches. Rings of "legend" but the "locals" swear by the story. As a teen in the 60s I refrained from using the park for that ...uh...purpose, but rather parked in a church lot at Evergreen and Plymouth.

In the Book Detroit Daze, the John Oxman Voyages, I gather that long after I was gone, there were tough white-kid gangs around Telegraph and Warren.

**ladot01** · January-08-13, 01:34 PM

Where was Jimbo's? It sounds very, familiar. I've been gone over 35 years. One place I went to last summer on a visit, had that special Detroit quality, it was Penthouse, way out there near 7-mile and John R. I think. The atmosphere was truly priceless...nice neighborhood joint with that south-of-Eight Mile feel...no hustle no pressure...good times and thriving I hope.

**Honky Tonk** · January-08-13, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by ladot01

Where was Jimbo's? It sounds very, familiar. I've been gone over 35 years. One place I went to last summer on a visit, had that special Detroit quality, it was Penthouse, way out there near 7-mile and John R. I think. The atmosphere was truly priceless...nice neighborhood joint with that south-of-Eight Mile feel...no hustle no pressure...good times and thriving I hope.

Crap, I'm batting a 1000 today. It's Jumbo's on 3rd.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/jumbos-bar-detroit-2

**ladot01** · January-08-13, 01:48 PM

Yes, Yes! I have my own Jumbo's story to share. I used to hang out there in the mid-1970s, was friends with an older German waitress from Germany. Usually I was with a friend, but one night after closing down the joint, and pretty much stoned, I got a gun in the ribs and a fairly polite request to deposit any remaining funds in my pockets with the holder of the gun.

I was like....hey...maaannn, slow down a bit. You're talking too fast, your nervous. What are you doing out here pulling an armed robbery? He continued the tough-guy thing, and I finally asked him what his specific need for money was, as being short on funds myself, maybe we could meet the need a different way?

Well it turns out he wanted cab fare. In lieu of money I didn't have, I offered him a ride in my truck which he accepted. Halfway to his destination, still slightly nervous about the gun haphazardly pointed in my general direction, I asked him about it, a good gun? Firing condition, cleaned, oiled. He looked puzzled, confessed an ignorance of guns, and would I check it for him to make sure that if he fired it, it wouldn't blow up in his face.

Sure....I said....and took the gun from him, emptied the chamber for safety's sake, inspected it at a red light, and told him it was pretty okay....a little pitting, but workable. I dropped him off, we shook hands, I returned the gun and ammo....all was well...another day in the life of a Detroiter....

**TexasT** · January-08-13, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Crap, I'm batting a 1000 today. It's Jumbo's on 3rd.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/jumbos-bar-detroit-2

Jumbo's is still open. I was just there about a month ago.

**Honky Tonk** · January-08-13, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by TexasT

Jumbo's is still open. I was just there about a month ago.

Good to hear. Does it still have that "Real Detroit" flavor, or are they now serving "Designer Drinks"? Another good one, IMO, is The Old Miami.

**TexasT** · January-08-13, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Good to hear. Does it still have that "Real Detroit" flavor, or are they now serving "Designer Drinks"? Another good one, IMO, is The Old Miami.

Definitely more of a dive [[although the argument can be made that my own yuppie presence negates the "Real Detroitness" of it all

) . I was at Bronx Bar for a few hours before we went to Jumbo's [[my first and only time there) so my memory isn't quite intact.

**ladot01** · January-08-13, 02:15 PM

Taking the Saxophone Player for a Walk -- An Anderson Gardens Story

I know I asked for stories about bars, but I also have a few to give. I was at Anderson's one night on Third near Willis talking to a young lady, a willowy brunette who was a bit of an intellectual. We were just talking when she said, "I gotta go, its my turn to walk the Sax player." "Huh..." "Oh yeah, he's a little burnt out and needs a leash and a walk around the block." Just then she's called up on stage....with leash in hand she says to me, "Here, you walk him." So I put the collar on his neck, and off we went into the 10-below zero, crackling cold winter night....the guy was very smart, hunch backed, with a mind like a cracked piston...not a bad piston but a damaged one....

I walked him, including to the bathroom, and eventually returned him to the stage where he functioned amazingly...I mean...the real deal..Detroit jazz all the way with roots in Memphis somewhere, but he was a white guy, a southerner. Later the young woman thanked me and we took up where we left off after her "set."

**DetroitPlanner** · January-08-13, 02:16 PM

I am fairly sure the Brennen Pools in Rouge Park are still open.
http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1190132933
http://www.usaswimming.org/ViewMiscA...49&ItemId=5418
http://www.detroitmi.gov/Departments...Athletics.aspx

**ladot01** · January-08-13, 02:24 PM

Great news on Brennan pools!! I'll swim there next summer! My father will be pleased to learn they are still open. I am surprised since I saw the Tennis Courts in ruins about 5 or 10 years ago.

**ladot01** · January-08-13, 03:02 PM

Going to one or both of these places puts you in the Real Detroiter category. Its a state of mind. Its an inclusive category, far from exclusive in any sense.

**Gary** · January-08-13, 04:29 PM

I used to frequent those Cass Corridor joints when I was WSU undergrad in the 70s.

This past October I celebrated my birthday with about a dozen old friends at Union Street. After dinner, we adjourned to the Old Miami where we hung out til around 1 AM. First time I've been there in many years, and I'm happy to say the place hasn't changed much.

**Django** · January-08-13, 05:06 PM

The Old Miami has a long story and if you can corner Danny the owner for about 3 hours he could tell you the story.

Another good story is of what is now known as Honest Johns which used to be Elmers. Elmers was the last real dive I spent time in. If you can corner him [[John Thompson) you'll have even a better story.

I know both of the stories but not gonna even start to try and tell them, its not my place as Id get too many details wrong.

Bookies on 6 mile was another great classic of Detroit punk rock dive.

I dont know Neils last name but he owned the Gold Dollar in the 90s but the Dollar was more of a R&R bar, still a classic that has a long storied past as a gay bar years before.

Temple Bar. The owner works there often enough to get the scoop over the bar, nice guy.

**EastsideAl** · January-08-13, 05:06 PM

Cobb's Corner was named for its original owner, Bob Cobb. He sold it to Henry Normile and his brother [[who received some assistance from John Sinclair). I spent many nights of my late teens in there when the tragically-fated Henry ran the place.

The space was inhabited by the Cass Corridor Food Co-op for many years thereafter, and more recently has been an art gallery and bookstore.

I once saw someone killed at the Kibitzer, and I never went back. The apartment building it was in became a seniors residence and the bar was closed and the front of the building walled off from the street.

One place you didn't mention was the Willis Show Bar, which was just south of Anderson's at the corner of Willis and Third. It had the last jazz [[mostly Hammond B-3) and 'exotics' show I know of in Detroit. Along with several girls 'working' the bar, as a sort of blacker version of Anderson's.

Even though I'm east side Irish, I spent many a happy night in the company of my west side compatriots at the Tipp. I remember Tom, and particularly the late Kathleen, with much fondness. If I remember correctly, the bullet that killed the poor fellow on Southfield was thought to most likely be a stray from the now-demolished Herman Gardens housing project across the freeway.

**Django** · January-08-13, 05:18 PM

The Old Miami has a long story and if you can corner Danny the owner for about 3 hours he could tell you the story. Another good story is of what is now known as Honest Johns which used to be Elmers. Elmers was the last real dive I spent time in. If you can corner him [[John Thompson) you'll have even a better story.I know both of the stories but not gonna even start to try and tell them, its not my place as Id get too many details wrong. Bookies on 6 mile was another great classic of Detroit punk rock. I no know Neils last name but he owned the Gold Dollar in the 90s but the Dollar was more of a R&R bar, still a classic that has a long storied past as a gay bar years before. Temple Bar. The owner works there often enough to get the scoop over the bar, nice guy.

**Django** · January-08-13, 05:21 PM

Where was the Kibitzer located?

Saint Stannies on the Eastside near 94 and Chene have had a lot of discussion on here over the years.

**ladot01** · January-08-13, 05:42 PM

The Kibitzer was on Cass, right in the heart of the old Appalachian area. It was the first area my southern relatives lived before moving on to Madison Heights and Warren, and later Rochester. I'll check a map, but from memory I wanna say it was south of Selden. They once, twice, three times -- had a plate glass window, but it kept getting shot out, so they replaced it with adobe blocks and hung the neon sign on that.

Just looked on google maps, might have been Brainard and Cass, in that vicinity anyway. I drove by while visiting last summer and thought I saw the foundational remains of the building and the adobe brick "plate glass."

I have good stories from that joint. "Out of Order" was the vibe [[and the condition of the 'rest' rooms), "death" the theme, featuring overdoses, bad trips with no return ticket, psychosis and murder. Bottled beer was only 50 cents. I met some of my favorite people there.

**ladot01** · January-08-13, 05:48 PM

Man, I recall Elmers very specifically. I met a Detroit detective there who was so 'deep' undercover he'd forget to get his pay check, forget to report in. Then again, maybe he wasn't a cop. I wasn't who I said I was, if anybody asked. Reality was through many mirrors down in Elmers. Around 2nd and Selden was the core of my descent through that madness in the mid 70s. Loved every moment, but would not, could not do it again, even if such a place existed...maybe in Bangkok Thailand now...certain no where in this country.

**EastsideAl** · January-08-13, 08:14 PM

Kibitzer was on Cass just north of MLK [[formerly Myrtle, formerly Stimson) on the ground floor of what's now called the Wayne Court Apts.

**ladot01** · January-09-13, 12:50 AM

What memories! Thanks everyone. typing on phone so excuse errors. There's no people anywhere as great as Detroiters. I recall several nights, getting home from train trips at the old Michigan Central and walking all the way home to Seward and Hamilton. I got offers of food, places to sleep...so much hospitality regardless of color or ethnicity...the folks of Detroit are truly good.....the violence and economic catastrophies drove most of us out.....but the crime was perpetrated by a small % of people....and even then those folks werent bad per se....but they did bad things amid a culture normalcy had abandoned.

**G-DDT** · November-01-14, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Django

I dont know Neils last name but he owned the Gold Dollar in the 90s but the Dollar was more of a R&R bar, still a classic that has a long storied past as a gay bar years before.

Yee-and he was a genius and a very abiding dude from Milwaukee. He picked up a lot of the business Zoot's had, when it closed. It also ran steady for four years. It was one of the first bars I knew that stocked the cigarette machine with American Spirits [["Y'know, because their better for you."-like versus, not smoking?) He used to have "proms" every year [[maybe I should post some photos) and open mic nights every Sunday. The bar was infamous as an old drag bar. The bathrooms were elevated a step and a sign used to read "Step up Queenie".