Increasing the effectiveness of programs that fight poverty

[Richard]

[QUOTE=nickbii;360630]This actually show you why the low-tax strategy the South uses means you get lots of low-wage jobs. If the City could re-vamp it's schools so that HS was five-year program resulting in an Associates, and make one of those programs training machinists, we could benefit from the shortage.

But since the City has no money to do that, and doesn't actually control education [[that belongs to an independent School Board, which is, believe it or not, in worse shape then the City proper)...

That's Detroit's true tragedy. So many opportunities, but they all cost money.

So when you leg is cut off and somebody offers you a another one you are going to refuse the help because the one helping may make a little profit in there somewhere,that is not a sign of being broke that is a sign of protectionism at the cost of a city work force and human lives involved.

It is all conversation but I will re post this from another thread so this whole comparison of low wage Southern states and high wage Northern states no longer exists.

Here is a cost of living calculator.

The averaged starting pay for a assembly line worker according to this is $17.311 -$43.281. Updated 5 Jan 2013

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...ry/Hourly_Rate

So what I did was split the starting wage at $25.000 per year because you guys are supposed to have the experience,then I compared that to doing business in Tuscaloosa or if I was a assembly line worker moving to Detroit.

Ready for this?

A salary of $25.000 in Tuscaloosa Alabama is worth $24948.46 in Detroit .Keep in mind these are comparisons including metro and not the city of Detroit in specific.

So the difference is $52.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/...0107183834%3as

So which place would you rather be a wage earner in?

[Richard]

She must have been in on the very first edition of the Dutch Welfare state. It was only started in 1963.

Regardless, apparently it's changed a lot since then, she was remembering wrong, or you're remembering wrong.

Or you are unable to comprehend .

That pays for about 10 people at the University of Michigan. That's tuition-only, not room or board.

If we are going to do this dance you really need to pay more attention. Please show me anywhere in my posts where I said it was the UofM.

TANF is typically $300-$400 a month, "hundreds of thousands" has to be 200,000, each getting three TANF checks means $900 a month, that's total spending of $180,000,000. $180 mil times 12 is $2.16 Billion a year. At $400 a month and 350,000 you get $5 Billion. The total TANF budget is only $17 Billion. Moreover post-Clinton you actually have to physically meet your caseworker, near your official address, twice a year to get any benefits. This is kinda tough to do in FL, PR, and NY all at once.

So I'm gonna have to see a source for this contention.

I suspect "recently" is gonna turn out to be pre-Clinton's Welfare Reform, and "hundreds of thousands" is gonna turn out to be "hundreds or thousands."

I am not sure where you get your numbers from but each person on the system does not get the same amount,depending on how many children you have and situation it varies even from state to state with local and fed dollars.

I do stuff for these little convenience stores and they show me the balances on the assistance cards, mother with 7 children her card has a beginning balance of $4000 per month in with-drawable cash and assistance.

Total TANF budget is based on the US and does not include PR which pays benefits in cash and not requires actual person to collect at the time.and your numbers do not include all available benefits like food stamps that can be sold for 50c on the dollar and no their computers were not state interlinked until about 5 years ago that is how they discovered the setup.

But you do concern me a bit because you claim poor or close to it but you definitely do not seem to have your finger on the pulse of the dark side of life and how it operates,or maybe that's my problem I know all walks of life and all incomes from nothing to more money then any state or country can spend from top to bottom they all work the system.Well okay 70% Ya wanna see some numbers on that also?

Now how about if you spend a little less time picking apart posts and post something related to the OP and maybe come up with some more wonderful suggestions, because going down this road does nothing towards a conversation in relation to the currant situation and ideas to resolve it.I will also do the same.

[Richard]

This is a good step in the right direction.

MEDC vice president Amy Cell said that manufacturing jobs have been stigmatized as dirty or unreliable since the economic downturn. The new Michigan Advanced Technician Training Program aims to combat those stereotypes by offering a work-study program that harnesses companies' need for new manufacturing talent to fund interested students’ education.

http://annarbor.com/business-review/...2#incart_river

[nickbii]

So when you leg is cut off and somebody offers you a another one you are going to refuse the help because the one helping may make a little profit in there somewhere,that is not a sign of being broke that is a sign of protectionism at the cost of a city work force and human lives involved.

Has anyone actually offered this? On a scale that matters? I love Focus Hope as much as the next guy, and if they had funding for 500 machinist slots next year I'd be all for doing whatever it takes to make that happen.

Thing is they don't have 500 machinist slots open. Their Machinists Training Institute has only graduated 2,400 people since it opened 30 years ago.

It should be noted no Detroit pol, no matter how left-wing, has ever done anything to make Focus Hope's life more difficult, and even the ones with reputations as being crazily racist [[like JoAnne Watson) strongly support all their programs.

[nickbii]

Or you are unable to comprehend .

I think a written explanation of how the Dutch Welfare state is today is stronger evidence then something somebody remembers hearing 16 years ago about how the Dutch system was in the early 70s.

If we are going to do this dance you really need to pay more attention. Please show me anywhere in my posts where I said it was the UofM.

So if that guy had gone to U of M he'd have had $1.6 million to leave to his alma mater?

I didn't bring up that University because you brought it up, I brought it up to show how hard it is to fund a world-class education for masses of people with private charitable giving. U of M is actually cheap as top-tier Universities go. That 800k would get tuition for 7-8 at Michigan Tech, and would pay for 6 at Michigan State. I'm using out-state numbers here because in-state includes subsidies from the taxpayers.

Maybe a private school in rural Tennessee has a different cost structure, and only charges $10k a year. But even if that's the case it's still only 20 students.

Private charity helps some, but it is not a solution to poverty.

I am not sure where you get your numbers from but each person on the system does not get the same amount,depending on how many children you have and situation it varies even from state to state with local and fed dollars.

Varying from state to state was actually the point of Welfare Reform.

But since the Feds do the bulk of the funding, and decide most eligibility standards, actual benefits tend to live in the same range.

I do stuff for these little convenience stores and they show me the balances on the assistance cards, mother with 7 children her card has a beginning balance of $4000 per month in with-drawable cash and assistance.

She's not getting $4,000 a month in welfare/TANF. Nobody does that. She's probably getting a lot of food stamps, and WIC. The money rolls over from month to month, so if she gets $1,202 a month [[this is possible in Mass with an eight-person family) and only spends $1,000, in 20 months she'll have that much left on the Card.

She might get $4k a month in benefits, but most won;t end up on her Bridge Card. With seven kids Medicaid alone could cost the government $20,000. Another $10k for $800 a month in rent subsidies with Section 8, $14k for stamps, and you're pretty close [[$44k) to that. If she only makes $13k-$17k the $5.881 in EIC would put her over. But only the Food Stamps appear on her Bridge Card.

Total TANF budget is based on the US and does not include PR which pays benefits in cash and not requires actual person to collect at the time.and your numbers do not include all available benefits like food stamps that can be sold for 50c on the dollar and no their computers were not state interlinked until about 5 years ago that is how they discovered the setup.

You'd be surprised about how much I know. EIC is actually a lot more susceptible to fraud then anything you've mentioned. As a Tax pro I've had people come into my office claiming they never heard about it, then correcting me about the details of the program. I was not surprised she made exactly the $17k that gives you max EIC.

As I said, to get food stamps you have to physically go to the office with paper proving both your income and expenses. You have to repeat every six months. The same guy sees you each time so it's hard to keep a line of BS going.

You were seriously claiming that people who were so poor they were on Stamps/TANF/etc. had the money to commute from NYC to FL to PR every six months. I could believe a few people did that. Even a couple hundred. But you're talking "hundreds of thousands."